Ukraine Might Still Loose the War

[Truth7t7]

that doesn't mean this is a proxy war instigated by the west.

We Disagree, It's 100% A "Proxy" , Conflict, War, Military Exercise, or whatever name you want to put on it, and the US has played a major roll in its support, funding, and supply of arms, and the major road block to peace talks

 

[childeye 2]

We Disagree, It's 100% A "Proxy" , Conflict, War, Military Exercise, or whatever name you want to put on it, and the US has played a major roll in its support, funding, and supply of arms, and the major road block to peace talks

I'm not sure we disagree. The definition of a proxy war you provided showed you misunderstood the term. Now you say it's whatever I want to call it, but to me precise words matter, and I want to call it what it is so that there are no misunderstandings. After all it can only end in a contradiction of reasoning when we reason upon a falsehood. You could just say America supports Ukraine with arms and funding and you would be fine, and we could agree. But to say it's a proxy war implies the U.S. instigated the military action, and that is clearly disproven by all the facts.

 

[Truth7t7]

The definition of a proxy war you provided show you disagree with yourself.

I haven't changed my position, it's a "Proxy War" your arguing over a definition for the sake of believing your right

Call it what you want a, war, military exercise, conflict, etc,

Fact Is, the US and Western World is funding it, and keeping it going for their individual agendas, using Ukranian citizens as pawns in cannon fodder, to achieve desired outcomes

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes Zelensky violated the Minsk Agreements in killing innocent Russian speaking civilians in the Donbas, and Putin's Russia came to their aid

Nice try. But every day, Putin attacks civilians in Ukraine. He's killed thousands of them. And he's kidnapped Ukrainian children and deported them to camps in Russia. For which he is now officially a war criminal:

ICC judges issue arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin over alleged war crimes​

Arrest warrants issued for Russian leader and his children’s rights commissioner for ‘unlawful deportation’ of Ukrainian children

ICC judges issue arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin over alleged war crimes

Arrest warrants issued for Russian leader and his children’s rights commissioner for ‘unlawful deportation’ of Ukrainian children

www.theguardian.com

Not only did he make himself a fugitive from justice, his tactics backfired. Instead of intimidating the Ukrainians, it infuriated them. Stupid move, Vlad.

 

[The Barbarian]

Ukraine isn't a NATO member, and NATO has no obligation to support Ukraine "None"

Ah, but it appears that Putin has now made it pretty much a done deal. Just as Putin's reckless military aggression drove Finland and Sweden to join NATO, it appears that Ukraine will now become a NATO member as well.

Putin's recklessness turned out to have caused the very thing that frightened him the most.

 

[The Barbarian]

Fact Is, the US and Western World is funding it, and keeping it going for their individual agendas, using Ukranian citizens as pawns in cannon fodder, to achieve desired outcomes

The Ukrainians disagree with you. They are enthusiastically beating the invaders. Speaking of cannon fodder...

Conscripted Russians already being used as cannon fodder in Ukraines south​

Conscripted Russians already being used as cannon fodder in Ukraines south

UKRAINSKA PRAVDA - THURSDAY, 6 OCTOBER 2022, 13:08 Russians who were mobilised after 21 September, after the so-called partial mobilisation was announced in Russia, are now being used as cannon fodder in the south of Ukraine.

news.yahoo.com

And the new troops are starting to realize it...

High-ranking Russian officer beaten up after calling conscripts ‘cannon fodder’​

A lieutenant colonel in the Russian army was pummeled after allegedly declaring to a roomful of new conscripts that they were all “cannon fodder intended for slaughter,” according to a video from the scene.

Violence was said to have broken out at the “Rubin” Palace of Sport in the Russian city of Penza, which has been converted into a makeshift barracks housing 1,080 conscripts.

A video that was shared on the pro-Ukraine Telegram channel AFU StratKom on Friday shows several reservists punching a man dressed in army fatigues in the face and kicking him after he falls down next to a row of bunkbeds.

High-ranking Russian officer beaten up after calling conscripts ‘cannon fodder’

A video said to be recorded at a makeshift barracks in Penza, Russia, shows a brawl in which a group of conscripts allegedly beat up a lieutenant-colonel who called them men “cannot fodder in…

nypost.com

 

[Truth7t7]

he's kidnapped Ukrainian children and deported them to camps in Russia.

https://www.theguardian.m/world/2023/mar/17/vladimir-putin-arrest-warrant-ukraine-war-crimes

Not only did he make himself a fugitive from justice, his tactics backfired. teadof intimidating the Ukrainians, it infuriated them. Stupid move, Vlad.

Sounds like western MSM propaganda

You mean Vladimir Putin has relocated Russian speaking children, away from the Russian held war zones to a safe place, to protect them from the harms of war

 

[Hans Blaster]

Sounds like western MSM propaganda

You mean Vladimir Putin has relocated Russian speaking children, away from the Russian held war zones to a safe place, to protect them from the harms of war

Without telling their parents.

This is not like the evacuation of children from London during "The Blitz".

 

[Truth7t7]

Ah, but it appears that Putin has now made it pretty much a done deal. Just as Putin's reckless military aggression drove Finland and Sweden to join NATO, it appears that Ukraine will now become a NATO member as well.

Putin's recklessness turned out to have caused the very thing that frightened him the most.

Pretty hard for Ukraine to join NATO when it will be a Russian state by the end of this year, when Zelensky and his criminal brigades fly off in helicopters to their private island compounds to enjoy in luxury the $Billions$ of US Taxpayer dollars that were funneled into offshore bank accounts without accountability

 

[The Barbarian]

Just a random comment on Putin. I have always understood him to be cruel but until this war, he actually did some good for Russia. Russia was falling apart when Putin filled a power vacuum and the homicide rates were skyrocketing. He brought that down & brought needed better law & order back. When Putin took over in 1999, the homicide rate was 26.2 per 100,000 people and by 2020, it dropped to 7.33 per 100,000 people.

Putin's work in the Gorbachev and Yeltsin period seems to be praiseworthy. I think he got drawn into the kleptocrat system and once on top of it, could not get out. Getting increasingly isolated from the mass of Russian citizens, and eyeing a chance to restore the Russian Empire, he just seems to have lost all perspective and reason.

Part of it was likely the usual flaw of dictators; removing anyone who might tell him news he doesn't want to hear.

 

[The Barbarian]

Pretty hard for Ukraine to join NATO when it will be a Russian state by the end of this year,

You guys were saying that last year. What happened?

 

[childeye 2]

I haven't changed my position, it's a "Proxy War" your arguing over a definition for the sake of believing your right

Well, I know I'm right and I'm using the very definition you gave. The U.S. did not instigate the military actions happening in Ukraine.

Call it what you want a, war, military exercise, conflict, etc,

Well let's call it what it is, a militarily waged war between Ukraine and Russia that began when Russia invaded Ukraine.

Fact Is, the US and Western World is funding it, and keeping it going for their individual agendas, using Ukranian citizens as pawns in cannon fodder, to achieve desired outcomes

It looks to me like Putin brought the cannons to Ukraine with an agenda to achieve "desired outcomes".

 

[Truth7t7]

Well let's call it what it is, a war between Ukraine and Russia.

That the US Supplies, Funds, Trains, And Gives Arms To, in its "Proxy War" against Russia

 

[Hans Blaster]

Pretty hard for Ukraine to join NATO when it will be a Russian state by the end of this year, when Zelensky and his criminal brigades fly off in helicopters to their private island compounds to enjoy in luxury the $Billions$ of US Taxpayer dollars that were funneled into offshore bank accounts without accountability

Got any other fantasies you'd like to get on the record?

Subdivisions of Russia aren't called "states".
The vast majority of the "billions" going to Ukraine are in direct transfer of military hardware. It's kind of difficult to funnel 500 rounds of M864 155-mm ammunition into a bank account.

 

[Truth7t7]

The vast majority of the "billions" going to Ukraine are in direct transfer of military hardware. It's kind of difficult to funnel 500 rounds of M864 155-mm ammunition into a bank account.

A large part in $Billions$ is going directly to the Ukranian government under the title of "Ukranian Aid" without financial accountanility and has nothing to do with military arms or ammunition supplied "Fact" $Billions$

 

[Truth7t7]

It looks to me like Putin brought the cannons to Ukraine with an agenda to achieve "desired outcomes".

I Agree, Putin brought cannons to liberate Russian speaking people in the Donbas from Zelensky's genocide, that was in direct violation of the internationally recognized Minsk Agreements

 

[atpollard]

No trick as you claim it was Russia who came to the aid of the Russian speaking people in the Donbas region, who were being killed by Zelensky in genocide, in violation of the internationally recognized Minsk Agreements

That word "genocide" once had real meaning. It has been cheapened in our modern society.

So how many millions of Russian speaking people were killed in the Donbas region prior to the Russian Invasion?
Enlighten me.

 

[The Barbarian]

President Joe Biden has already secured a powerful deliverable from his Europe trip – one that will weaken Russia’s strategic position in another detrimental consequence of its invasion of Ukraine.

Turkey’s lifting of its blockade on Sweden’s entry into NATO was a significant and stunning move on the eve of the NATO summit in Lithuania. The reversal by President Recep Tayyip Erdogan came hours after he warned Sweden would be out in the cold until Turkey got its long-delayed membership in the European Union.

Once Sweden finally joins NATO, it will bolster Biden’s reputation as a US leader who reinvigorated and expanded the bloc. Finland – which decided to sign up, like Sweden, after the invasion of Ukraine – has already added hundreds of miles of NATO territory on Russia’s border. Biden’s lifeline of arms and ammunition for Ukraine and leadership of the alliance has made him the most significant president in transatlantic affairs at least since George H.W. Bush, who presided over the end of the Cold War and the reunification of Germany.
...
Erdogan’s move was also a severe blow to Russian President Vladimir Putin. First, it will result in the expansion of NATO territory and strengthen the alliance after an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine that Putin had argued was partly intended to weaken the West and to counter what he claims is its effort to neuter Russia’s power in its own backyard. Secondly, the decision by Erdogan – an increasingly autocratic leader who has enjoyed largely cordial ties with the Kremlin strongman – will frustrate Russia’s attempts to sow divides between NATO members in order to weaken the alliance.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/11/politics/biden-turkey-sweden-nato/index.html

Biden outsmarts Putin once again. Putin's age is starting to show; he's in way over his head.

 

[Sabri]

Most military analysts that don't take their pay packets in Rubles. Me. Or frankly anyone who watched them overextend themselves in teh first few weeks and then get pushed back when they didn't capture Kyiv.

He had a plan. A quick strike victory against an unprepared foe. It worked in Crimea in 2014. It failed in Ukraine in 2022.

LOLOLOLOL

Russia wishes it was on the Ukrainian "losing trajectory".

Thanks for your reply. I’m a bit confused by the censorship.

 

[Truth7t7]

That word "genocide" once had real meaning. It has been cheapened in our modern society.

So how many millions of Russian speaking people were killed in the Donbas region prior to the Russian Invasion?
Enlighten me.

More than (1)

Glad to see you have acknowledged the innocent killing of Russian speaking people in the Donbas, with Zelensky being in violation of the internationally recognized Minsk Agreements