Truths

[DragonFox91]

Well...

She has health problems I don't have. Like her heart and her teeth.

Makes sense, I guess. I'm being overly sensitive.

 

[TheLastGeek]

I may get pushback on this one, but one thing I hear all the time that can make me feel down is ‘you have to do it young because you will get a healthy child.’

This is a lie.

Truth: The age you have children is no guarantee of a healthy child.

Who determines what makes a child healthy? What are the qualifications? Jesus has something to say about this I just shared in Bible Verses thread. Doing it young has no guarantee you get healthy child. You get who God gives you for his glory & not what you think is good in your sinfulness..

So what happens it a lot of people rush when they’re young, thinking they’ll get a healthy child, & then God says, nope, I have someone different for you, & they’re blind-sided.

It’s a lie to discourage people it’s taking time with, & a lie to encourage rushing .

But now there’s a new problem (or old problem more prominent): people know there’s no guarantee so don’t even what to bother at all. This is a problem because I belive it’s rootedness in some selfishness & a misunderstanding of what a healthy child is.

There is science that supports this, though. The older the egg is, the more likely it may have flaws that can result in things like birth defects and disabilities. Women who have children after the age of 40 have a much higher chance of this. It's biological, not spiritual.

 

[TheLastGeek]

You're right.

Women can have a child with Down Syndrome no matter what age.

Experts say that older men are at higher risk of having unhealthy children. But the thing is, my dad was in his 40s when he had me and in his 20s when he had my half sister. I'm healthier than her.

It's actually the women who carry the risk. Sperm are constantly renewed in a man's body, while a woman's eggs are present from the time of her birth and they age as she ages.

 

[DragonFox91]

TRUTH!!!: DragonFox91 has assurance he will not be single his whole life & now has to live with the joy & eager expectation she could happen any day.

TRUTH: Doesn’t mean won’t be bad days or periods, doesn’t mean it’ll be soon, doesn’t mean I know how it'll happen or what I have to do, but she WILL happen & she WILL be good!!!

It’s true for the same reason I know the other truths, but for some of the truths I can logically come to - > this I can’t, it didn’t, I didn’t want to -> I just rec’d the assurance.

Disagree? Too bad, sir or mad'am, you don’t decide.

Next time I’m down, share this w/ me & rub my face in it! Tell me I'm being childish.

There is science that supports this, though. The older the egg is, the more likely it may have flaws that can result in things like birth defects and disabilities. Women who have children after the age of 40 have a much higher chance of this. It's biological, not spiritual.

I don't like the phrase 'birth defect'. Implies someone is better. Jesus says otherwise.
Some of the disablity community doesn't like that word either, some don't care.
Maybe I'm just being too sensitive.

Consider this: Could the women over the age of 40 be more equipped to deal with it & that's why it happens with more frequency for them? Certainly you don't want to give a woman in her 20s or 30s who may not be mature yet. What you call flaws in the egg, God call may call good. We don't get to decide. You are talking from a biological perspective.

I hope this isn't coming across as selfish, some people think it mays you selfish if you think like I'm thinking, but the truth is, many who are like that are more joyous, so why is it considered selfish?

Why you say that, Reese?

Reese, I need to know, you're killing me

 

[DragonFox91]

This thread has been a lot about me. Some things have been applicable to Singles / people as a whole. Does anyone have any Truths themselves? I don’t know them all!

 

[peaceful-forest]

TRUTH!!!: DragonFox91 has assurance he will not be single his whole life & now has to live with the joy & eager expectation she could happen any day.

Care to share? Did God say something to you? (you can private message me if you want; or not)

 

[TheLastGeek]

I don't like the phrase 'birth defect'. Implies someone is better. Jesus says otherwise.
Some of the disablity community doesn't like that word either, some don't care.
Maybe I'm just being too sensitive.

Consider this: Could the women over the age of 40 be more equipped to deal with it & that's why it happens with more frequency for them? Certainly you don't want to give a woman in her 20s or 30s who may not be mature yet. What you call flaws in the egg, God call may call good. We don't get to decide. You are talking from a biological perspective.

I hope this isn't coming across as selfish, some people think it mays you selfish if you think like I'm thinking, but the truth is, many who are like that are more joyous, so why is it considered selfish?

I work in the disabled community, and have never once had anyone complain about the word "disability". There's nothing wrong with the phrase "birth defect", either. There is a framework for human beings that is normal; two eyes, two ears, two arms, two legs, etc. Bodies that are born without that normality have a defect. It doesn't imply anything about the value of the person or their humanity, it's simply a descriptive of their physical condition. You can use any alternative phrase that you prefer, of course.

No, it happens because the female egg ages along with the woman, and just like anything else, with age comes breakdown. The older eggs are more prone to genetic and chromosomal mutations. There is no foundation at all to say that a 40 year old woman is "more equipped to deal with" a child who has a birth defect or disability. That sort of situation is never easy to deal with, for anyone, at any age. Women in their 20's can be fantastic mothers. Women in their 30's are hardly "immature", either.

Every human being has value and purpose in God's eyes. I've never said otherwise.

 

[DragonFox91]

I work in the disabled community, and have never once had anyone complain about the word "disability". There's nothing wrong with the phrase "birth defect", either. There is a framework for human beings that is normal; two eyes, two ears, two arms, two legs, etc. Bodies that are born without that normality have a defect. It doesn't imply anything about the value of the person or their humanity, it's simply a descriptive of their physical condition. You can use any alternative phrase that you prefer, of course.

No, it happens because the female egg ages along with the woman, and just like anything else, with age comes breakdown. The older eggs are more prone to genetic and chromosomal mutations. There is no foundation at all to say that a 40 year old woman is "more equipped to deal with" a child who has a birth defect or disability. That sort of situation is never easy to deal with, for anyone, at any age. Women in their 20's can be fantastic mothers. Women in their 30's are hardly "immature", either.

Every human being has value and purpose in God's eyes. I've never said otherwise.

I felt my heart break when I read that. Just like, ripped in half.

I can agree with is 'it's never easy for anyone to deal with.' It's not easy, of course not. Because we are sinful. It's hard to accept. But it can become easy & accepted.

& I don't disagree women in their 20s can be fantastic mothers. God knows they can be fantastic mothers. That's why they recieve the exact child that they do. Even tho the genetics & chance & fate you're talking about fate they shouldn't. You're trying to tell me it's an accident which child ends up with which parents & I don't agree with that at all. That's wrong.

A 40 year old isn't more equipped to deal with it? Depends on who we're comparing them to. They certainly can be more capable than 18 year olds who may not have a clue what they're doing. God knows this.

Sometimes parents who seem pretty blessed, they get one when by all acounts they shouldn't -> Why? B/c God knows they can handle it.

I bought a book today. "My Body Is Not A Prayer Request." It's written by someone with a disability. I was paging thru it. It really gets into this. You may've read it b/c you say you work in this field, so let me know your thoughts on it if you have, I could totally be misjudging this book, but from what I was reading while paging thru it, this could be very benefcial to you.
I asked the cashier for a book very general, b/c there's several ways a book covering broad topics on this could be very benefical to me & hopefully be benefcial to others too, but I told her I was interested in one that included talk about the parent's perspective. She did give me a name of a book but they didn't have it in stock, but she wrote down the name & I have it.

 

[LoveDivine]

I think we can't deny mortality and the breakdown of the human body. Sadly, women do have increased issues with fertility and pregnancy as they age. It's just how things are in this fallen world. It's the sad reality of life as are all other illnesses and aging related difficulties. That is not to say that an older woman can't or shouldn't try to have a child. That is something she can consider prayerfully. I do believe in miracles and healing. So all things are possible with God. But, that doesn't eliminate the increased risks and concerns of having children at an older age. I think this is something to be seriously considered.

Sicknesses and mutations are not blessings from God. They are part of the curse that entered the world through sin. It's definitely not what God designed or intended. He can use these genetic mutations or illnesses to produce good things in us, but he is not the source or architect of down syndrome or other defects. That would be really cruel. In the gospels Christ healed everyone who came to him with sicknesses. The gospels often say he was moved with compassion. Clearly he did not view being crippled or leperous to be a blessing. The same thing goes for a child being born with a cleft lip/ palate or any other deformity.

God designed the cell cycle and patterns of genetic inheritance, but mutations are a perversion of his perfect design. Having a child is not something random; you are born inheriting your parents chromosomes and DNA. I'm not saying that God doesn't intervene or allow things to happen during conception, but that is quite different from stating he gives some people children with disabilities. We need to be very careful and not make that leap in logic. In essence we can open up a can of worms and call the goodness of God's character into quesion by implying that he decides who will be born with deformities and who will be born healthy.

This is not at all to say that a child born with a disability can't live a very happy life and be a huge blessing to the parents and others around them. As was said by others, a person's health has no bearing on their value or worth as an individual.

 

[DragonFox91]

Interesting. I will meditate & ponder & pray on all that you said, Yankee.

I've heard it said when Jesus healed the leprous & crippled - he healed them because they were outcasts. They were 'unclean.' They were poor. The 'normal' people rejected them. The 'normal' people believed that they were the way they were, was because they had sinned or their parents (inherited sin -> kind of similar to our understanding of mutations), because it was a curse from God, & they were therefore undeserving of God's promises. What I'm reading here is more or less that, maybe minus the 'undeserving of God's promises.' When Jesus healed them, what he's really healing is the 'normal' people's hearts to them. He's telling them 'no, you don't understand.' Extremely powerful stuff.

No, I disagree he was healing them because he's telling them 'you were born wrong b/c of sin.' He's telling them the opposite.

 

[LoveDivine]

I don't want to try to convince you or argue this, but one point that I could add for you to consider is that sickness was not in paradise and will not be in heaven. Christ will remove all sorrows and sicknesses. Also, when the gospels refer to those who sought out Christ for healing, the term affliction is often used as a description of their condition. Afflictions imply great suffering and misery. Having physical pain and the inability to walk or take care of yourself is a great source of suffering even if you are accepted in society. We were never supposed to get sick or old. It doesn't mean that a person who is disabled or sick is a sinner ( Christ did address that and that aspect of your post I do agree with), but that person's body as many others is subjected to diseases that entered the world through sin.

The old testament also had promises from God that if they followed his laws and abstained from idolatry that he would not put diseases on them like he brought upon the Egyptians. (Exodus 15:26). That right there shows that God does not view diseases as a blessing.

A genetic mutation is not a punishment for sin. Mutations can occur through a variety of factors such as diet, environmental stressors, toxic substances, and aging. Cells are far more likely to have genetic mutations the more times that DNA is replicated. It had been studied that the risk of cancer developing in a cell is correlated to aging and multiple DNA replication cycles. The more times DNA replicates the more little errors can occur. So a child born with a defect is not being punished for sin or blessed. I do completely believe in prayer and that miracles can occur to interrupt these mutations. Thus my initial post that this is something to prayerfully consider (if you may be a high risk pregnancy )

 

[DragonFox91]

I don't want to try to convince you or argue this, but one point that I could add for you to consider is that sickness was not in paradise and will not be in heaven. Christ will remove all sorrows and sicknesses. Also, when the gospels refer to those who sought out Christ for healing, the term affliction is often used as a description of their condition. Afflictions imply great suffering and misery. Having physical pain and the inability to walk or take care of yourself is a great source of suffering even if you are accepted in society. We were never supposed to get sick or old. It doesn't mean that a person who is disabled or sick is a sinner ( Christ did address that and that aspect of your post I do agree with), but that person's body as many others is subjected to diseases that entered the world through sin.

Lot to agree with here. Lot to consider. I guess, one question is who defines what physical sickness is & what will healed really look like. People been debating this for centuries.

The old testament also had promises from God that if they followed his laws and abstained from idolatry that he would not put diseases on them like he brought upon the Egyptians. (Exodus 15:26). That right there shows that God does not view diseases as a blessing.

I'm not sure. I'm struggling.
I think what he's implying is, 'your lives will be easier.'

BTW, I like how are we discussing this from a Christian point of view. I think it's wrong to approach this topic or subject from any other view as Christians, & am glad you steered it back that way, so, way to go! Well done! Even tho we are disagreeing some. That's just so encouraging!

 

[TheLastGeek]

You're trying to tell me it's an accident which child ends up with which parents & I don't agree with that at all. That's wrong.

No, I'm not "trying to tell you" that. I notice that you seem to put words in my mouth rather often, or take what I'm saying and apply some other, completely separate meaning to it. That's not fair, and it's not conducive to a productive or honest exchange of thoughts. You can take what I say at face value. And if you aren't sure what I mean, just ask.

A 40 year old isn't more equipped to deal with it? Depends on who we're comparing them to. They certainly can be more capable than 18 year olds who may not have a clue what they're doing. God knows this.

Believe you me, there are plenty of 40 year old's who have no business or readiness to be parents. And plenty of 20 something's who are far more equipped and ready for parenthood. Age is not an indicator of who makes a good or ready or proper parent (excluding extremes like teenage parents).

I bought a book today. "My Body Is Not A Prayer Request." It's written by someone with a disability. I was paging thru it. It really gets into this. You may've read it b/c you say you work in this field, so let me know your thoughts on it if you have, I could totally be misjudging this book, but from what I was reading while paging thru it, this could be very benefcial to you.

No, I've never heard of this book, but I like the title already. If my hunch is correct, it fits in with what most disabled people would say; they aren't superheroes or special "inspiring" human beings or mistakes that need to be fixed. They're just people, and they want to be treated like anyone else. You'll have to let me know what you think of the book.

 

[DragonFox91]

Busy repairing broken relationships. I KNEW I had to do this, & in the past I knew I wasn't ready to repair them which was making everything worse, & now it's finally happening. I'm rattling them off. Repairing them one after the other. They're saying how excited they are how I'm making them feel, they are telling others how exciting it's making them.

God is moving! This isn't something I could do, or wanted to do, on my own. Too hard. Too weak in the flesh. Too many scars. Too many barriers. Too much hurt. Even some 'you're going to scare people if you do it.' No! It's gone! No one I know prodded me to do this. No one said I had to. I couldn't convince myself to b/c 'who cares, that's just how life is, it stinks sometimes, just b/c you read you should do nice things to people, who cares what they think, that's just what a majority decided one day, or one day some Joe Shmo said, & it's all random, it's all an accident or random at best, who cares.' You just don't flip a switch & start being able to do this.

 

[DragonFox91]

Scary good thoughts. Don’t know if they’re true. But I can see which way I’m being led & have been led. I've always suspected this. Won't share publicly.

 

[DragonFox91]

One thing I'm really understanding now is the concept of 'winning her heart'

It always used to sound so superficial when people would tell me that. Like, you're to trying to earn it. You're not good enough the way you are & need to change to conform to whatever her sinful desire is, probably some sort of unachievable standard.

But now I believe I get it: you're not trying to win her heart: you're trying to win her spirit. Her heart is deceitful (mine is too), the spirit isn't, not as much at least. You're trying to join her heart, her spirit, with your's.

Yes, she does need to get a benefit from you, but the benefit enriches her spirit. How can you benefit her spirit? That's what we single men need to ask.

So enlightening. Probably basic stuff to most people, but it seems there's a wrong way & a right way to do it, & the right way was either never communicated to me in a way I could understand it, or I was simply unwilling to understand it. Actually I don't think it ever was, not like this.

So: criticize this! Tell me hard things about what I'm saying.

 

[LoveDivine]

One thing I'm really understanding now is the concept of 'winning her heart.'

It always used to sound so superficial when people would tell me that. Like, you're to trying to earn it. You're not good enough the way you are & need to change to conform to whatever her sinful desire is, probably some sort of unachievable standard.

But now I believe I get it: you're not trying to win her heart: you're trying to win her spirit. Her heart is deceitful (mine is too), the spirit isn't, not as much at least. You're trying to join her heart, her spirit, with your's.

Yes, she does need to get a benefit from you, but the benefit enriches her spirit. How can you benefit her spirit?

So enlightening. Probably basic stuff to most people, but it seems there's a wrong way & a right way to do it, & the right way was either never communicated to me in a way I could understand it, or I was simply unwilling to understand it. Actually I don't think it ever was, not like this.

So: criticize this! Tell me hard things about what I'm saying.

I don't have any criticism. Just something to add to what you are saying. I think the way to look at it is that a woman you are interested in is a human being. Not just someone to pursue to fill a void or desire in your life. So the way to really connect with someone (this applies to non-romantic friendships as well) is to really take an interest in them as a person who has feelings, thoughts, desires, etc. I would say it's about trying to form a connection with another individual where you actually take the time to get to know them and also to share with them who you are as a person. If there is some compatibility between the two of you, the bond will grow because of the shared interests and outlook on life. You don't want to force a connection. From a female perspective, I would share that I find I'm interested in a guy if he is genuine, doesn't put on a charade or act in a such away that he thinks will impress me, and shows a genuine interest in getting to know me. I think that winning someone isn't so much about making them see the desirable qualities in you, but more so that you are being kind to them and showing them that you are interested in them. No one wants to feel like they are just a statistic or someone who meets requirements on your list. Women do this too. They want a husband and a father for future children, and they try to find someone that they think can fit that role. That's missing the whole point of marriage and falling in love. You should be pursuing someone who you find genuinely interesting and are attracted to. Someone you actually like and want to spend time with. I think if a woman senses that a guy actually likes her for her personality and individual traits, that will make the woman feel more comfortable and special and happy to spend time with the guy Thoughtfulness and sincerity goes a long way.

 

[DragonFox91]

Just quick reply Yankee for now, I will respond more, but I never understood "that you are being kind to them and showing them that you are interested in them". So that part jumped to me right awy in your post. I always would hear that & think, well Any man can do that. But only one can win her spirit. (& probably some of her heart's desires too). Was it you by chance the one that one time was saying, you shouldn't look at it like it's a numbers game. Whoever it was who said that is absolutely right. & it applies to the woman too.

 

[DragonFox91]

You feel like God is caring for her too right now & you need to meet her cares

 

[LoveDivine]

Yeah, I said in a previous thread that it's not a numbers game. It's about meeting one person who you can truly connect with and pursue a life together. Also, even though it seems so simple and that any guy can do that much, the truth is most don't, lol. It's actually rarer than you would think that someone is sincere and puts out the effort to genuinely get to know someone and connect. I think this is even more important in Christian relationships. The goal of a Christian marriage is to share the same outlook on faith and life, and to be able to serve God together as a couple. You need to invest the time in having meaningful discussions with the other person to see if you match that way. Also, I don't believe a relationship should be the guy trying to cater to the woman's whims or doing things to win her approval. It should be give and take and that both are putting in the effort. If you are doing all the work to get to know someone that's a sign right there that this isn't a good fit.