The Sabbath is grace.

[Rose_bud]

No, not at all. It's actually quite the opposite. These passages have a lot of dimensions to them and can only be understood properly if we understand what happened to the Israelites in order for them to pass into their promise land (rest) the writer of Hebrews is making a parallel teaching between why they did not enter into their rest (Canaan) and showing how it applies to us TODAY to not follow their same path of disobedience so we can enter into our promised rest Hebrews 4:11. There are two different rests in Hebrews and you will not be able to properly understand this passage unless you understand what these different rests mean, which the Greek spells out for us. Also disobedience and unbelief are interchangeable in these passages, which is an important principle that applies today

Lets start with Hebrews 3 as it sets up the background for Hebrews 4

7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but [b]exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Please note the rest in these verses is not the seventh day Sabbath. It is this rest:

katapausis: rest
Original Word: κατάπαυσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: katapausis
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap'-ow-sis)
Definition: rest
Usage: (in the Old Testament of the rest attained by the settlement in Canaan), resting, rest, dwelling, habitation.

Like I said you have to be familiar with the story of Moses and what the Israelite's disobeyed that mean ended up in corpses due to their unbelief/disobedience.

Ezekiel tells us what the Israelites disobeyed in the wilderness and why some who did never entered into their Promised rest

Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them. 13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Ezekiel 20:20
20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’ 21 “Notwithstanding, the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, and were not careful to observe My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; but they profaned My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them and fulfill My anger against them in the wilderness.

Also keep in mind Moses reviewed the Ten Commandments which includes the Sabbath commandment 40 years after they were given by God and right before entering into the Promises Land (their rest) and told them to diligently keep, so it would be a dangerous mistake to think we can follow their same example of disobedience Hebrews 4:11 to receive our rest in Christ Heb 4:10

So with this background it should make understanding Hebrews 4 easier. This whole passage is about how we are not to follow their same example of disobedience Heb 4:6 Heb 4:11 and why the Sabbath-rest (keeping) remains (not changed) for God's people. Hebrews 4:9 NIV and the rest in this verse literally translates into Sabbath-keeping

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: a sabbath rest
Usage: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

Those who enter into His rest ALSO cease from his works as God did from His.

When does God cease from His works?

This very passage tells us.....

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; Which is a direct quote from the 4th commandments Exo 20:8-11 and Creation Gen 2:1-3

Those who enter His rest also rest on the seventh day (Sabbath keeping) just as God did Exo 20:11. Man is made in the image of God to follow Him.

Sabbath keeping never ended for the people of God, but remains which is why we are not to follow the same path of disobedience of the Israelites. Heb 4:11 In God's rest there is no rebellion to Him or His commandments and the Sabbath is a commandments of God that remains for His people.

Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
Isa 48:18

I pray this helps.

Thank you for your thoughts.

If I consider the overall context of the book of Hebrews faith is a key theme. Starting from chapter 1 to the final chapter, the author is building on his reasoning for why Christians are to believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God. Not to lose hope and heart, to not waver but keep on believing with everyone mention of “therefore” the author would have explained “wherefore” in the preceding passages. The OT passage quoted by the author is

Psalm 95..

1 Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.

2 Let us come before him with thanksgiving and extol him with music and song.

3 For the LORD is the great God, the great King above all gods.

4 In his hand are the depths of the earth, and the mountain peaks belong to him.

5 The sea is his, for he made it, and his hands formed the dry land.

6 Come, let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the LORD our Maker;

7 for he is our God and we are the people of his pasture, the flock under his care.

Today, if only you would hear his voice,

8 “Do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah, as you did that day at Massah in the wilderness,

9 where your ancestors tested me; they tried me, though they had seen what I did.

10 For forty years I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘They are a people whose hearts go astray, and they have not known my ways.’

11 So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

Hebrews 3

So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice,

8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness,

9 where your ancestors tested and tried me, though for forty years they saw what I did.

10 That is why I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.’

11 So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

I’ve highlighted the passages where there is the difference. Psalms 95 provides the detail of the time of testing in the wilderness. Psalm 95 provides the aspects of the nature and character of God as it alludes to how he revealed Himself in the wilderness (rock of salvation) (God of all gods) greater than the gods of Egypt.

A cross reference to Massah and Meribah will indicate Exodus 17 which I referred to in the previous post ( the complaint against God for water, He provides water from the rock, which is later revealed as Christ the Rock (1 Corinthians 10:4), rock of salvation in Psalm 95…. Scripture interpreting scripture.

So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief

Yes, I agree there is the instance of them disobeying the Sabbath when they could not trust that the manna would be enough for the 7th day and thereby deliberately disobeying God, but based on the OT quotations (psalm 95 and Exodus 17) which provides the context of Hebrews 4 it was the drama at Masah and Meribah that the author was speaking about, not Ezekiel.

pray this helps

 

[Rose_bud]

My understanding of Sabbath keeping is a pledge to not rely on yourself but on God who is the source and provider of all we need. God sanctified the 7th day and set it apart because he had done what he had done for his creation, they had everything they needed to live a wholesome life in the garden… everything was very good. God did not take a break because He was tired, He “sabat” rested, ceased to work because what he had done was complete and very good. In my opinion Adam and Eve had it good in the garden they had it all, the source of all life was their source, no striving or straining to make a life… When sin entered, they were cursed with labour and strife and toil.

Interesting that Noah… is the first instance of God providing a glimpse of a rest that would come for the children of Adam…his name meaning rest according to Strongs (nuach).

In addition, it must of been a huge shock to the Israelites to finally have a God who would allow them rest, considering they were coming from Egypt, where all they knew was work, not just work but slavery... to be given a whole day off without having to work for it... culture shock Id say ... (mmm where is the catch Moses). But in honour of God, a day is set aside to honour Him.. beside it being great for them it was a rebuttal against the gods of Egypt that this God of Israel cares and loves and that He is totally Other.

 

[Gary K]

Thank you for your thoughts.

If I consider the overall context of the book of Hebrews faith is a key theme. Starting from chapter 1 to the final chapter, the author is building on his reasoning for why Christians are to believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God. Not to lose hope and heart, to not waver but keep on believing with everyone mention of “therefore” the author would have explained “wherefore” in the preceding passages. The OT passage quoted by the author is

Psalm 95..

1 Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.

2 Let us come before him with thanksgiving and extol him with music and song.

3 For the LORD is the great God, the great King above all gods.

4 In his hand are the depths of the earth, and the mountain peaks belong to him.

5 The sea is his, for he made it, and his hands formed the dry land.

6 Come, let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the LORD our Maker;

7 for he is our God and we are the people of his pasture, the flock under his care.

Today, if only you would hear his voice,

8 “Do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah, as you did that day at Massah in the wilderness,

9 where your ancestors tested me; they tried me, though they had seen what I did.

10 For forty years I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘They are a people whose hearts go astray, and they have not known my ways.’

11 So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

Hebrews 3

So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice,

8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness,

9 where your ancestors tested and tried me, though for forty years they saw what I did.

10 That is why I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.’

11 So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

I’ve highlighted the passages where there is the difference. Psalms 95 provides the detail of the time of testing in the wilderness. Psalm 95 provides the aspects of the nature and character of God as it alludes to how he revealed Himself in the wilderness (rock of salvation) (God of all gods) greater than the gods of Egypt.

A cross reference to Massah and Meribah will indicate Exodus 17 which I referred to in the previous post ( the complaint against God for water, He provides water from the rock, which is later revealed as Christ the Rock (1 Corinthians 10:4), rock of salvation in Psalm 95…. Scripture interpreting scripture.

So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief

Yes, I agree there is the instance of them disobeying the Sabbath when they could not trust that the manna would be enough for the 7th day and thereby deliberately disobeying God, but based on the OT quotations (psalm 95 and Exodus 17) which provides the context of Hebrews 4 it was the drama at Masah and Meribah that the author was speaking about, not Ezekiel.

pray this helps

What difference does that make? They consistently refused to follow God during the 40 years in the wilderness and their disobedience revealed their lack of faith. The same thing will keep us out of heaven. They had the problem of not believing God during their entire Biblical history . Our result will be the same as theirs if we continue in unbelief and disobedience like they did.

 

[Gary K]

My understanding of Sabbath keeping is a pledge to not rely on yourself but on God who is the source and provider of all we need. God sanctified the 7th day and set it apart because he had done what he had done for his creation, they had everything they needed to live a wholesome life in the garden… everything was very good. God did not take a break because He was tired, He “sabat” rested, ceased to work because what he had done was complete and very good. In my opinion Adam and Eve had it good in the garden they had it all, the source of all life was their source, no striving or straining to make a life… When sin entered, they were cursed with labour and strife and toil.

Interesting that Noah… is the first instance of God providing a glimpse of a rest that would come for the children of Adam…his name meaning rest according to Strongs (nuach).

In addition, it must of been a huge shock to the Israelites to finally have a God who would allow them rest, considering they were coming from Egypt, where all they knew was work, not just work but slavery... to be given a whole day off without having to work for it... culture shock Id say ... (mmm where is the catch Moses). But in honour of God, a day is set aside to honour Him.. beside it being great for them it was a rebuttal against the gods of Egypt that this God of Israel cares and loves and that He is totally Other.

So if God sets aside a specific day for rest and hallowed it, i.e. made it holy, how is it trusting Him to not rest on the day He made holy?

 

[Rose_bud]

What difference does that make? They consistently refused to follow God during the 40 years in the wilderness and their disobedience revealed their lack of faith. The same thing will keep us out of heaven. They had the problem of not believing God during their entire Biblical history . Our result will be the same as theirs if we continue in unbelief and disobedience like they did.

what difference does what make??

What will keep you out of "heaven" is not believing that Jesus is the Son of God, not believing that He is your High Priest, that He is the provision made for your "entry". If you believe who He is, you will do as He says...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Thank you for your thoughts.

If I consider the overall context of the book of Hebrews faith is a key theme. Starting from chapter 1 to the final chapter, the author is building on his reasoning for why Christians are to believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God. Not to lose hope and heart, to not waver but keep on believing with everyone mention of “therefore” the author would have explained “wherefore” in the preceding passages. The OT passage quoted by the author is

Psalm 95..

1 Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.

2 Let us come before him with thanksgiving and extol him with music and song.

3 For the LORD is the great God, the great King above all gods.

4 In his hand are the depths of the earth, and the mountain peaks belong to him.

5 The sea is his, for he made it, and his hands formed the dry land.

6 Come, let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the LORD our Maker;

7 for he is our God and we are the people of his pasture, the flock under his care.

Today, if only you would hear his voice,

8 “Do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah, as you did that day at Massah in the wilderness,

9 where your ancestors tested me; they tried me, though they had seen what I did.

10 For forty years I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘They are a people whose hearts go astray, and they have not known my ways.’

11 So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

Hebrews 3

So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice,

8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness,

9 where your ancestors tested and tried me, though for forty years they saw what I did.

10 That is why I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.’

11 So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

I’ve highlighted the passages where there is the difference. Psalms 95 provides the detail of the time of testing in the wilderness. Psalm 95 provides the aspects of the nature and character of God as it alludes to how he revealed Himself in the wilderness (rock of salvation) (God of all gods) greater than the gods of Egypt.

A cross reference to Massah and Meribah will indicate Exodus 17 which I referred to in the previous post ( the complaint against God for water, He provides water from the rock, which is later revealed as Christ the Rock (1 Corinthians 10:4), rock of salvation in Psalm 95…. Scripture interpreting scripture.

So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief

Yes, I agree there is the instance of them disobeying the Sabbath when they could not trust that the manna would be enough for the 7th day and thereby deliberately disobeying God, but based on the OT quotations (psalm 95 and Exodus 17) which provides the context of Hebrews 4 it was the drama at Masah and Meribah that the author was speaking about, not Ezekiel.

pray this helps

Hebrews in general no doubt is about faith, and I don't see disobeying God and His commandments as a fruit of someone who has faith in Him hence Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 but as these scriptures spell out it is rebellion to God.

The Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke 23:56 and while it is a popular teaching that many turn the Sabbath commandment into something different than how God spoke and wrote it, the result is the same, profaning God's holy Sabbath day that is a commandment, meaning it's not a suggestion. No different than the commandment to not worship other Gods, not to vain God's holy name, not to covet, not to steal or as Jesus warns quoting directly from this unit of Ten not to break or teach other to break the least of these commandments and in doing so, one is in fear of judgement and sin. Math 5:19-30

Which is why Hebrews reminds us the Sabbath-rest (keeping) remains for God's people. Hebrews 4:9 NIV and the rest in this verse literally translates into Sabbath-keeping

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: a sabbath rest
Usage: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

what difference does what make??

What will keep you out of "heaven" is not believing that Jesus is the Son of God, not believing that He is your High Priest, that He is the provision made for your "entry". If you believe who He is, you will do as He says...

Exactly, which is why one would keep the Sabbath day holy Exo 20:8-11 which is a commandment of God, not a suggestion. The Ten Commandments God wrote and God spoke Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16 and are not optional or multiple choice if we are to do as He says.

 

[Rose_bud]

So if God sets aside a specific day for rest and hallowed it, i.e. made it holy, how is it trusting Him to not rest on the day He made holy?

I totally believe we should rest... I just don't think of it legalistically...I'm fully convinced that He is my source for all things. I rest my body and cease from work for it honors Him, and its good for me and others and the rest of creation. I try to choose a day to commit to Him.. ( I must admit its at times not the easiest especially with the times we live in, the demands of life)... But it shouldn't be come a burden to do what God requires, hence the no legalism.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I totally believe we should rest... I just don't think of it legalistically...I'm fully convinced that He is my source for all things. I rest my body and cease from work for it honors Him, and its good for me and others and the rest of creation. I try to choose a day to commit to Him.. ( I must admit its at times not the easiest especially with the times we live in, the demands of life)... But it shouldn't be come a burden to do what God requires, hence the no legalism.

Was it legalistic for God to give Adam and Eve access to everything except one tree.

Is it legalistic for God to set one day aside for Him, the seventh day Sabbath that He blessed, made holy and sanctified to spend time with man because man can't sanctify themselves only God can Eze 20:12 and He does this to bless us Isa 58:13-14 and so man would have a special sign between us and God that we are worshipping the God of Creation Eze 20:20 and this to you is legalistic. No, it's sign of our allegiance to God that we obey Him the way He asks, even if it's not the popular choice. Just like Daniel when He stayed true and prayed to God three times daily instead of worshipping the idol. This is the faith I believe God is looking for, those who stay true to Him and His Word, instead of following our own rules/traditions over keeping the commandments of God, Jesus says when one does this their heart is far from Him- is that what we want? Mat 15:3-9

 

[Rose_bud]

Was it legalistic for God to give Adam and Eve access to everything except one tree.

Is it legalistic for God to set one day aside the seventh day Sabbath that He blessed, made holy and sanctified to spend time with man because man can't sanctify themselves only God can Eze 20:12 and He does this to bless us Isa 58:13-14 and so man would have a special sign between us and God that we are worshipping the God of Creation Eze 20:20 and this to you is legalistic. No, it's sign of our allegiance to God that we obey Him the way He asks, even if it's not the popular choice. Just like Daniel when He stayed true and prayed to God three times daily instead of worshipping the idol. This is the faith I believe God is looking for, those who stay true to Him and His Word, instead of following our own rules/traditions over keeping the commandments of God, Jesus says when one does this their heart is far from Him- is that what we want? Mat 15:3-9

Forgive me , but I'm trying to understand what you are trying to say or ask... It may be that I'm missing something... Is there something you want me to agree on or acknowledge? If there is what is it?

 

[Gary K]

what difference does what make??

What will keep you out of "heaven" is not believing that Jesus is the Son of God, not believing that He is your High Priest, that He is the provision made for your "entry". If you believe who He is, you will do as He says...

What will keep us out of heaven? Unbelief and disobedience are tied at the hip. They are impossible to separate.

Hebrews 3: 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Forgive me , but I'm trying to understand what you are trying to say or ask... It may be that I'm missing something... Is there something you want me to agree or acknowledge? If there is what is it?

Just curious if think Jesus is legalistic for keeping the Sabbath and the commandments of God and teaching us to? The apostles who kept every Sabbath decades after the cross- were they being legalistic? Is it legalistic to obey God the way He asks ? I'm trying to understand why you think obeying God the way He asks is legalistic and if you only apply it to the Sabbath or do you apply it to the other commandments God gave? Scripture says disobedience is rebellion to God. God gave us His holy commandments because He knows what's best for us. Sin is what separated man from God. Sin is the transgression of God laws, the Ten Commandments Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 and obeying Him is an act of faith Rom 3:31 Rev 14:12 which leads us to reconciliation Rev 22:14

 

[Rose_bud]

Do you think Jesus is legalistic for keeping the Sabbath and the commandments of God and teaching us to? The apostles who kept every Sabbath decades after the cross- were they being legalistic? Is it legalistic to obey God the way He asks is to? I'm trying to understand why you think obeying God the way He asks is legalistic and if you only apply it to the Sabbath or do you apply it to the other commandments God gave?

I'm beginning to understand that you want me to agree to keep the Sabbath the way that you do. I'm sorry I cant do that. What I've been trying to say about the passages in Hebrew how it ties in to the commandments has always been about the revelation of Jesus Christ. Our faith is in Law Giver, the God of the laws. Loving God and loving your neighbor that was the crux of the law... if I rest on a Saturday or Sunday or any other day but have disregard for my neighbor by allowing him to go hungry, or rest but not do what is just. I will be in disobedience to the very law I'm trying to uphold... that's what I mean by legalistic. So if Saturday or Sunday is the only day I can work to feed my family, would God prefer my to let them go hungry or beg for bread. I think not. We will all stand before this God and be accountable for our actions.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'm beginning to understand that you want me to agree to keep the Sabbath the way that you do. I'm sorry I cant do that. What I've been trying to say about the passages in Hebrew how it ties in to the commandments has always been about the revelation of Jesus Christ. Our faith is in Law Giver, the God of the laws. Loving God and loving your neighbor that was the crux of the law... if I rest on a Saturday or Sunday or any other day but have disregard for my neighbor by allowing him to go hungry, or rest but not do what is just. I will be in disobedience to the very law I'm trying to uphold... that's what I mean by legalistic. So if Saturday or Sunday is the only day I can work to feed my family, would God prefer my to let them go hungry or beg for bread. I think not. We will all stand before this God and be accountable for our actions.

Well, sadly, you’re missing the point of Hebrews 3 and 4 as it is about our obedience to God. I am not asking you to keep the Sabbath the way I keep it, I am pointing you to the way God commanded. Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13. The point of obeying God the way He asks instead of our version of it, it shows our loyalty and faith in Him. The Israelites didn’t have the faith in God and also wanted to do their own thing and it separated them from God, it’s been the problem since the beginning of time. I don’t think it’s wise to follow their same path of disobedience and expect a different result when the very passage you quote says it doesn’t Hebrews 4:11, but we are given free will.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

if I rest on a Saturday or Sunday or any other day but have disregard for my neighbor by allowing him to go hungry, or rest but not do what is just. I will be in disobedience to the very law I'm trying to uphold... that's what I mean by legalistic. So if Saturday or Sunday is the only day I can work to feed my family, would God prefer my to let them go hungry or beg for bread. I think not. We will all stand before this God and be accountable for our actions.

Also, you might prayerfully consider reading Hebrews 11, the faith chapter. One thing they all have in common, while facing diversity, they still obeyed God, the way He asked. This is faith. God will take care of us for obeying Him regardless of the cost. Daniel could have easily shut the window when he prayed, but didn’t and proudly obeyed God over worshipping the idol breaking one of His commandments and this faith God took care of him in the Lions den, do you not believe God will take care of you if you obey Him the way He asks. I know He will, we all have to make sacrifices to obey Him. Your right we will have have to stand before God and be accountable for our actions, we will all be judged by our obedience to Him Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-14 If we don’t stand firm now in obedience to Him, how is one going to in the last days where His people will be persecuted and many will die over their faith and obedience to God. Jesus saves us from our sins Mat 1:21 not in them.

 

[Bob S]

The law didn't end at the cross .... the law is fully intact.

Then in Matt 5 Jesus is lying. He said He came to fulfill the prophecies concerning His coming and fulfill the Law. Since you don't believe Jesus removed the barrier, the Law, as stated in Eph 2:15 then you should also believe not even one jot or tittle of the entire law has been removed. Have you read all of the laws and what they entailed?

All will be judged by the law.

Have you read Jesus words in Jn 6:24 where those who believe in Him will not even be judged. 1Jn 3:19-24 tells us that we belong to the truth if we believe and love others as He taught us. It says nothing about keeping the defunct old covenant Law. Where did you get the information you are spreading? Certainly not from the Apostle Paul.

Followers of Christ will not be condemned by it. He will cloth us in His righteousness and we will be declared not guilty (of the law)

Those who have not followed Christ wil face some kind of judgment, but as to whether they will be lost is not our call.

Romans 2

1For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.…

Thank you Jesus for bearing my sins.. Thank You for removing the barrier that kept Gentiles and Jews apart. Now we all can come to the throne and become sinless through His blood.

The old covenant Laws have been removed from the Jews as Jesus stated. Gentiles were never under them. I repeat Gentiles were never under Torah law. Tell me something. When did God put Gentiles under obligation to keep the Sabbath.?

Of course there is law ..... Jesus can't judge with out it. Jesus taught from the OT ... the law (the 10) stands .... forever.

When did God obligate Gentiles to keep any of the ceremonial laws that Jews were under. He allowed them to be circumcised and partake of the rituals, But when did He obligate them?

The Jews in the OT had made themselves an "exclusive religion " based on ethnicity .... and the Lord never intended for it to be that way .... it is why He took that system down.

Oh is that right? Were they not God's special people. Didn't that make them "exclusive"? Where did you find that the Israelites "made themselves an exclusive religion"? Didn't God instruct them in religious matters?

There is nothing wrong with God's laws (the 10) ....

Right, the fact is they are just a very few ways we can hurt God and our fellow man. for instance there is no law in the 10 that tells us to love our neighbor or God. There is nothing about beating your wife. The Law of Love that Jesus gave us in Jn 14 and 15 indicates that if we love our fellow man we will never ever do him any harm. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all would follow Jesus law He gave us in JN 15:10-14

there is something wrong with us. Sin is transgression of the law ... always has been ... always will be.

I beg you to read the whole chapter of 1Jn 3. There you will find the law we as Christians transgress and it is not the old covenant now defunct laws as you have been taught by someone who is also confused.

 

[Bob S]

Well, sadly, you’re missing the point of Hebrews 3 and 4 as it is about our obedience to God. I am not asking you to keep the Sabbath the way I keep it, I am pointing you to the way God commanded. Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13. The point of obeying God the way He asks instead of our version of it, it shows our loyalty and faith in Him. The Israelites didn’t have the faith in God and also wanted to do their own thing and it separated them from God, it’s been the problem since the beginning of time. I don’t think it’s wise to follow their same path of disobedience and expect a different result when the very passage you quote says it doesn’t Hebrews 4:11, but we are given free will.

The commandment of God is Love. It is not the defunct old covenant laws given only to one nation, Israel. Why would a Gentile feel obligated to observe a day dedicated because of being released from slaves in Egypt. That does not make any sense. That is a good reason God never required any other nation to observe the Sabb0ath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The commandment of God is Love. It is not the defunct old covenant laws given only to one nation, Israel. Why would a Gentile feel obligated to observe a day dedicated because of being released from slaves in Egypt. That does not make any sense. That is a good reason God never required any other nation to observe the Sabb0ath.

And love to God and to man does not go undefined. 1 John 5:2-3

 

[Rose_bud]

Well, sadly, you’re missing the point of Hebrews 3 and 4 as it is about our obedience to God. I am not asking you to keep the Sabbath the way I keep it, I am pointing you to the way God commanded. Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13. The point of obeying God the way He asks instead of our version of it, it shows our loyalty and faith in Him. The Israelites didn’t have the faith in God and also wanted to do their own thing and it separated them from God, it’s been the problem since the beginning of time. I don’t think it’s wise to follow their same path of disobedience and expect a different result when the very passage you quote says it doesn’t Hebrews 4:11, but we are given free will.

I suppose everyone is entitled to an opinion. But I would like to elaborate for those who are reading so another perspective is provided.

I wont get into Isaiah 58, that's a whole awesome book all on it own, so selecting a text verse from it to create a doctrine on legalistic sabbath keeping, just doesn't do it justice.

What is God saying, and what is He saying about what he is saying.

Exodus 20: 2“ I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

God is the one who brought Israel out, not any other god, in case they confuse Him with any other… (which they did by the way… remember the golden calf)

Because of who HE is, this is how they should respond… noting there was nothing that they did in order to deserve His deliverance, He chose this nation, because He… had made a promise to Abraham, that his descendants would be rescued (Genesis 15).

God progressively reveals Himself to a people who knew Him not, no man has seen God and lived, he is too Holy. The revelation culminates in the person of Jesus Christ and concludes with John’s vision of Him on Patmos… the book is about Him (the unveiling of the Jesus, the anointed One).

Then the 10 ten commandments… the reasonable response of humanity towards a Holy God. A Holy God for His entire creation, everyone and everything corrupted by the fall.

But because the commandment is given in a certain context to a certain people, they would need to know how to apply it… which is understood by considering the rest of the law. Here is a nation who has to live together as a holy people amidst many others, who do not know this God. What would that look like to the rest of the nations? The laws are a paradigm for how a holy community has to relate to a Holy God and each other. Hence justice, caring for each other and the poor are a priority, doing good, loving each other (all this is done in their context). And yes, sabbath as it allows rest (which was counter intuitive to what they knew as slaves) and because it acknowledges God as enough for all they need).

We know that they didn’t do to great with any of these things, they didn’t believe in their God, they tested Him and they tried Him. They did not acknowledge Him as their God. The very law they had to uphold as a pledge of their allegiance to Him was the very holy law that condemned them (Romans).

So what did they do… they missed it and they messed up… and we are told not to do the same. Paul is repeatedly telling us in Hebrews don’t miss it and don’t mess it up… HERE IS HOW … Have faith in Jesus, the only one capable of upholding the Law, the sacrifice given for our sins… we don’t look to what we can do for God, but who HE is and what HE has done (Exodus 20:2), there in is our peace. The "I am" is revealed as JESUS" believe Him and respond to Him. Once we know Him, He empowers us to do what only He can, through the active working of the Holy Spirit in our lives (concluding chapters of Hebrews 12 and 13)… Consider Jesus.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I suppose everyone is entitled to an opinion. But I would like to elaborate for those who are reading so another perspective is provided.

I wont get into Isaiah 58, that's a whole awesome book all on it own, so selecting a text verse from it to create a doctrine on legalistic sabbath keeping, just doesn't do it justice.

What is God saying, and what is He saying about what he is saying.

Exodus 20: 2“ I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

God is the one who brought Israel out, not any other god, in case they confuse Him with any other… (which they did by the way… remember the golden calf)

Because of who HE is, this is how they should respond… noting there was nothing that they did in order to deserve His deliverance, He chose this nation, because He… had made a promise to Abraham, that his descendants would be rescued (Genesis 15).

God progressively reveals Himself to a people who knew Him not, no man has seen God and lived, he is too Holy. The revelation culminates in the person of Jesus Christ and concludes with John’s vision of Him on Patmos… the book is about Him (the unveiling of the Jesus, the anointed One).

Then the 10 ten commandments… the reasonable response of humanity towards a Holy God. A Holy God for His entire creation, everyone and everything corrupted by the fall.

But because the commandment is given in a certain context to a certain people, they would need to know how to apply it… which is understood by considering the rest of the law. Here is a nation who has to live together as a holy people amidst many others, who do not know this God. What would that look like to the rest of the nations? The laws are a paradigm for how a holy community has to relate to a Holy God and each other. Hence justice, caring for each other and the poor are a priority, doing good, loving each other (all this is done in their context). And yes, sabbath as it allows rest (which was counter intuitive to what they knew as slaves) and because it acknowledges God as enough for all they need).

We know that they didn’t do to great with any of these things, they didn’t believe in their God, they tested Him and they tried Him. They did not acknowledge Him as their God. The very law they had to uphold as a pledge of their allegiance to Him was the very holy law that condemned them (Romans).

So what did they do… they missed it and they messed up… and we are told not to do the same. Paul is repeatedly telling us in Hebrews don’t miss it and don’t mess it up… HERE IS HOW … Have faith in Jesus, the only one capable of upholding the Law, the sacrifice given for our sins… we don’t look to what we can do for God, but who HE is and what HE has done (Exodus 20:2), there in is our peace. Once we know Him, He empowers us to do what only He can, through the active working of the Holy Spirit in our lives (concluding chapters of Hebrews 12 and 13)… Consider Jesus.

How does one profess faith in Jesus but not have faith in His plain teachings. Mat 15:3-9 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 John 15:10 John 14:15 Exo 20:6 Mark 2:27, Luke 4:16 Mat 7:21-23 etc. etc. etc.

The bible is filled with scriptures on Sabbath-keeping like Isa 58 and we should trust Jesus to mean exactly what He says, He doesn’t need our help Pro 3:5-6 Pro 30:5-6 Most scriptures on the Sabbath has a thus saith the Lord and no man has the authority to reverse His blessing Num 23:20 or add/take from His commandments Deut 4:2 as they are perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 and lead us to reconciliation Rev 22:14

Yes, the Lord delivered Moses though the wilderness and through their trial just like He will deliver His faithful during our trial which is now. Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14 but sadly, scripture shows its just a remnant Rev 12:17KJV