The Messianic was the first congregation

[Aaron112]

Well... Then you don't agree!

Agree with what ? If someone/ anyone tells you the truth and you believe it, it may be or is helpful to you. If someone/ anyone tells you something misleading, will that be helpful to you if you believe an error?

 

[rockytopva]

Agree with what ? If someone/ anyone tells you the truth and you believe it, it may be or is helpful to you. If someone/ anyone tells you something misleading, will that be helpful to you if you believe an error?

Your providing words like truth, interpretation, misleading, and not saying why. The church did not come off of Noah's Ark denominational and stay that way! There has been changes that have occurred in time.

 

[Aaron112]

Your providing words like truth, interpretation, misleading, and not saying why. The church did not come off of Noah's Ark denominational and stay that way! There has been changes that have occurred in time.

Your statements seem to avoid the need to always obey the Creator and live by His Word as He Reveals, not as men interpret.

 

[rockytopva]

Your statements seem to avoid the need to always obey the Creator and live by His Word as He Reveals, not as men interpret.

I believe there are seven general congregations...

Messianic -Built in Jerusalem
Roman Martyrs - Built in the Empire
Orthodox - Built in Constantinople
Catholic - Built in Rome
Protestant - Built in Germany
Revived - Built in England
Material - Built in the United States

And to the congregations the Lord says time and time again...

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; - Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; - Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; - Revelation 3:13
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; - Revelation 3:32

So... We are to listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. In which... Issuing rebukes to the churches in error may be unpleasant but necessary in times. Such rebukes in the wrong time and geography would of cost you your life.

 

[Aaron112]

Such rebukes in the wrong time and geography would of cost you your life.

Do you really believe Jesus rebuked in the wrong time and geography ? Some people have published that if only He had stayed quiet, they would not have sought to kill Him.....
/perhaps same with the messengers of God and many martyrs/ ?

 

[rockytopva]

Do you really believe Jesus rebuked in the wrong time and geography ? Some people have published that if only He had stayed quiet, they would not have sought to kill Him.....
/perhaps same with the messengers of God and many martyrs/ ?

Christ's rebukes to the Gentile church are many.

 

[Aaron112]

Christ's rebukes to the Gentile church are many.

Can you even give just one example ? /from Scripture/

 

[rockytopva]

Can you even give just one example ? /from Scripture/

A few of the issues Christ spells out against the gentiles...

Roman Martyrs - Few issues with the persecuted church
Orthodox - The doctrine of the Nicolaitanes - Sexual Impurities
Catholic - Built in Rome - Spirit of Jezebel - To control and to dominate
Protestant - Built in Germany - Has a denominational name - But are spiritually dead
Revived - Built in England - "No more go out" Cannot keep the revival going
Material - Built in the United States... Rich, increased with goods, and have need of nothing?

 

[Aaron112]

A few of the issues Christ spells out against the gentiles...

Not from your ideas.
No.
From Scripture show a rebuke or correction against the gentiles as you put it.

 

[rockytopva]

Not from your ideas.
No.
From Scripture show a rebuke or correction against the gentiles as you put it.

If you were astute in the history of the church I could talk to you about it and show you the changes and the issues.

 

[Aaron112]

If you were astute in the history of the church I could talk to you about it and show you the changes and the issues.

You have not presented any evidence in your favor yet. The ways of men seem right to a man, but lead to destruction. I think that happens more often than not.
So it is better for everyone and all involved to get back to Scripture and not to adopt mankind's fables or illusions.

 

[rockytopva]

You have not presented any evidence in your favor yet. The ways of men seem right to a man, but lead to destruction. I think that happens more often than not.
So it is better for everyone and all involved to get back to Scripture and not to adopt mankind's fables or illusions.

In the Sardisean age church any mentality not supported by that particular denomination would be out of favor with men.

 

[rockytopva]

In researching the times of the first congregation it is hard not to run into the historian Josephus. Flavius Josephus... Who was he?

1. A Messianic Jew?
2. A Jewish traitor turned historian?
3. Only out for himself?

 

[daq]

In researching the times of the first congregation it is hard not to run into the historian Josephus. Flavius Josephus... Who was he?

1. A Messianic Jew?
2. A Jewish traitor turned historian?
3. Only out for himself?

Yosephus claimed to be a Kohen (Priest) of the family and course of Yhoyarib, (the first course in the rotation of the priestly courses), which was also the claim of the Hasmoneans or Maccabees, which Yosephus also claimed of himself, that is, Hasmonean descent.

Some modern Jews do count Yosephus as a traitor. Others in the field of scholarship also have claimed that an early church scribe or scribes, (who would have had access to Roman government archives), inserted the pro-Christianity pro-Christ statements into the writings of Yosephus, (the name Eusebius immediately comes to mind).

One of the very interesting things about the writings of Yosephus is what he says in several places about there having been three mains sects of the Yhudim, even saying that all three had been around for a long time, with the fourth sect, that of the Rebels, being the only sect which was less than a century old, (having arisen at the time of the census of Quirinius). And yet Yosephus, supposedly being a Perushi, (Pharisee), gives way more information about the so-called Essenes than any other sect. Perhaps he felt that everyone already knew all about the Pharisees and Sadducees and decided to spend so much more time and space on the Essenes? I dunno. Perhaps maybe he was rather a closet Essene? I dunno, but he sure has some kind words for the Essenes.

Regarding your "church ages" hypothesis, if you go back beyond the first century, I suspect that the Essenes would end up being the intertestimental missing link. In fact, it is possible that you might be reading a document written by one of them whenever you open up the epistle to the Hebrews.

 

[rockytopva]

To me it is very obvious that the Apostle Paul was coming into a very different congregation during his visits to Israel...

17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. - Acts 21

"Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:" - Acts 21:20

I wonder what happened to that Messianic congregation which were thousands in numbers?
Did they disappear all together after the Jewish-Roman wars?
Are they reforming here in this last day?

I have a Jewish friend that I attend a Wednesday morning bible study with. I would not have known he was Messianic until I asked about the Messianics and was told, "you are sitting right next to one!" This brother will attend our Bible study with much theological insight. He told me there was a Messianic congregation that meets in Roanoke but I am thinking they only do so out of fellowship with no organized church congregation.

 

[visionary]

To follow the Messianic Jews history rather than the gentile lines does take more research. Thomas is noted for the Messianics of India, which got mangled by Jesuits. That is but an example.

 

[rockytopva]

I asked my Messianic friend whom we affectionately call "Professor Rich" about the first congregation. His reply was that they basically blended in with all the other congregations after the Jewish-Roman wars. In which, here in the last days, I am wondering if the Messianic church does not reform. Even as small as fellowship nights after attending services of other denominations.

 

[rockytopva]

With little evidence of the first congregation there is another place to look… Ethiopia…

Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1. The church there seems very old and Jewish like
2. Great fear with shoes being removed for worship
3. It is said the Ark of the Covenant resides within a church there
4. Great fear towards the Ark and heavily guarded
5. Unique church more Messianic like than any other
6. Some Oriental Orthodox characteristics akin to the early church

And further narratives with Leonard Nimoy…

 

[rockytopva]

Ethiopia’s Orthodox Christians have long maintained that the ark has been held in a chapel at the Church of St. Mary of Zion in the holy northern city of Axum. The Ark of the Covenant... Notice the respect as we have worshipers covered and bare foot...

Christians in Ethiopia never saw ‘Ark of the Covenant’ they died for

They were slaughtered trying to stop real-life raiders of the lost ark — an artifact so powerful and holy they were forbidden from ever seeing it. The harrowing mass-murder of at least 800 pe…

nypost.com

 

[rockytopva]

Well... After study... I believe the church of Ethiopia is a result of the second congregation, which I would classify as Oriental Orthodox...

Messianic -Built in Jerusalem
Oriental Orthodox- Built in the Roman Empire
Orthodox - Built in Constantinople
Catholic - Built in Rome
Protestant - Built in Germany
Revived - Built in England
Material - Built in the United States

We have a Messianic Christian who visits our Bible Study and his view is that the Messianic congregation were scattered among the others in time. I see, though, Messianic churches arising to form their own congregations. And... Wishing them well! I may go for a visit!