The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, has set us free from the law of sin and death?

[Brightfame52]

We are set free from the law of sin and death by reckoning.
This notion that obeying the Gospel is "salvation by works"
has truly become the classic tradition of men nullifying the Word.
Romans 6:
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin,
but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin,
but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members
as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or
of obedience leading to righteousness?
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart
that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

If we condition our salvation on something we do or abstain from doing, then we have not been set free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Mr. M

This notion that obeying the Gospel is "salvation by works"

Obeying the Gospel is something one does after being regenerated by the Spirit, He causes that obedience 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Acts 5:32

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

 

[Mr. M]

@Mr. M



Obeying the Gospel is something one does after being regenerated by the Spirit, He causes that obedience 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Acts 5:32

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

How is it that you are unable to see that Acts 5:32 does not say
what you are trying to make 1 Peter 1:2?

The Holy Spirit does not sanctify the disobedient.
Hebrews 5:
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him.

"the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him".
2 Timothy 2:
19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal:
“The Lord knows those who are His,” and,
“Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

 

[Brightfame52]

How is it that you are unable to see that Acts 5:32 does not say
what you are trying to make 1 Peter 1:2?

The Holy Spirit does not sanctify the disobedient.
Hebrews 5:
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him.

"the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him".
2 Timothy 2:
19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal:
“The Lord knows those who are His,” and,
“Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

Yes it does say it, obedience is started ,effected by the Spirit. Obedience is the evidence that the Spirit is at work,

Peter again says it here 1 Pet 1:22

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Obeying the Truth is through the Spirit, same thing.

Your problem is you dont have a clue on what the Spirits role is in Salvation.

 

[HIM]

It addressed it to my understanding

Yet has nothing to do with the op. Address the op please

 

[HIM]

You are not proving anything by saying the same thing over and over.
You are trying to apply an abstract meaning of the word law, when Paul is being very specific.

You're not proving anything by not addressing it,
Address the points please. These points are facts and there are several.

Paul states this law is another law in verse 23 and this is a fact. The word another is heteros in the Greek and means different. THIS makes this law, nomos in the Greek, the thing established, different from the one previously mentioned. Couple that with the fact it is said in contrast to the Law of God he delights in, in verse 22.
AND This Law that is the Law of God that he delights in was said in contrast to the law he said he found in verse 21 this is a fact. Which was said in context to the fact that when he would do good evil is present with him, and the good that he would, he can't, but the evil that he would not, that he does. Stating so he then says it wasn't him that is doing it but the sin that dwells in Him. This is the law he found that is the other law warring in his member against the Law that he delights in, the Law of God, the Torah. Can't get any clearer than that. But let's add another fact that is brought out in the grammar. Both God in the clause "law of God" and sin in the clause "law of sin" are in the genitive case in the Greek and also have their very own definite article. Which means that the law mentioned of God, is the Law of the God. And the Law mentioned of sin. is the Law of the sin, making a distinct distinction between said laws.



Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of the sin which is in my members.

 

[Studyman]

That was said to keep both of us in check. Not one or the other. When you prove wrong what is shown to you in the last post, then we have something to talk about. But the syntax, grammar, and context shown to you on Romans 7:20-23 with the explanation Can not be refuted. Because they are facts. So unless you deal with the facts your conjecture is what is, subjective..

You are promoting your own imagination in your teaching that the LAW of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, was not God's Law promoted in the Law and Prophets. And also that the "Other Law" Paul found that brought Paul into captivity, was not God's LAW found in the Law and Prophets that brought all men into the same place.

I posted just a few of the Scriptures which show this, not all of course, because they are to many to post. I even included Paul's own words in Romans 7, in which he explains why God put this entire "Way" into motion. That even though the other LAW he found that was bringing him into captivity to the Law of Sin and death existed, it was not meant by God to destroy him. "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid" (That means NO! "Him". this is not "my conjecture".

You ignored the entire post, as beneath you to even discuss.

Are we not all brought into the same place, so that those who "Believe Him" (Not you as Him, but the real "Him") can see how really really exceedingly bad it is to transgress God's instruction in righteousness. So they will "press towards the mark of the high calling of God, that was in Christ Jesus", or "Yield themselves servants to obey God", or "with the mind, serve the Law of God" like Paul, because they believe God.

Your assertion that the "Other Law" that brought Paul into the same place it brought both you and I is not from God, or that it wasn't part of the Gospel of Christ given to Israel, or also shown by God to Cain, or Noah or Abraham or Caleb, is not a fact, it is your imagination, it is your conjecture.

When a man takes 2 or 3 scriptures, sets them apart from the rest of the Bible, and then attempts to create doctrine by them, this is not how the Lord's Christ, or Paul taught us how to study.

What I advocate for, is that men consider "ALL" of the Word's that proceed from the mouth of God, and I advocate this, not because some random preacher of this world that I heard a sermon from said it. But because the Jesus "of the Bible" said it. And Paul also, as a believer, taught that all of the Holy Scriptures are Inspired by God, and trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

I enjoy many of your posts and agree with much of the things you promote. But the following religious philosophy promoted by you below;

Paul said in Romans 8 when he said, "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death." A little leaven leavens the whole.

The law in the above phrase is not the law or a law found in the Book of the Law or of the decalogue.

This is just simply not true. All of God's Faithful "Walked through the Valley of the shadow of death". All men are brought into captivity to the Law of Sin and Death. It is Truth that all of God's Faithful "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made them free from the law of sin and death."

Ez. 18: 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Num. 14: 24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

Was Caleb not also held captive by the Law of Sin and death? Did he not put on a new man, and "Walk" in the Sprit? The Same LAW of the "Spirit of Life" that was in Christ Jesus?

Is this not a Biblical fact? Or are you to holy to have this kind of discussion with a nobody like me?

 

[Studyman]

If we condition our salvation on something we do or abstain from doing, then we have not been set free from the law of sin and death.

That is you, promoting "YOUR" philosophy regarding the Salvation of God. What I advocated for, that you completely ignored, is that we "Walk" according to how Our creator directs us to walk. Not in the religious doctrines and traditions of this world's religious businesses and sect's God placed us in, who transgress God's Judgments and Commandments by their own religious traditions.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yet has nothing to do with the op. Address the op please

It addressed it to my understanding

 

[Brightfame52]

That is you, promoting "YOUR" philosophy regarding the Salvation of God. What I advocated for, that you completely ignored, is that we "Walk" according to how Our creator directs us to walk. Not in the religious doctrines and traditions of this world's religious businesses and sect's God placed us in, who transgress God's Judgments and Commandments by their own religious traditions.

One cant walk according to the Spirit and condition their salvation on something they did. The Spirit reveals to the redeem what Christ has done to save them, and they walk by Faith in that revelation, walking according to the Spirit Rom 8:1-4

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

But for those who believe they did something to become saved, they are described in Vs 5

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

False man centered religion is "after the flesh" no matter how pious it may appear.

 

[Aviel]

In the Torah, God says "If you Obey ME, you shall Live". I believe this was "The Law of the Spirit of Life" that was in Christ.

Christ was not born in the Old Testament.
There was no Cross Given in the TORAH..... for the sin of the World.. John 3:16.. in the Old Testament.

So, when you teach that becoming "in Christ", is possible in the OT, when there was no Jesus THE Christ born in the OT< simply proves your theology is not related to a Bible, or Christianity @Studyman

 

[Studyman]

Christ was not born in the Old Testament.
There was no Cross Given in the TORAH..... for the sin of the World.. John 3:16.. in the Old Testament.

So, when you teach that becoming "in Christ", is possible in the OT, when there was no Jesus THE Christ born in the OT< simply proves your theology is not related to a Bible, or Christianity @Studyman

I have heard of this Christ you are promoting. A Christ that didn't exist before John the Baptist. There are images of this Christ in the likeness of some random handsome man with long hair that I see promoted by this world's religions. And truly, modern "Christianity" promotes this image as their Christ.

However, if a person actually reads what the Bible teaches for themselves, they find a different Christ in my view. And Christ who tells us;

John 6: 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man "ascend up where he was before"? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the "words that I speak unto you", they are spirit, and they are life.

As it turns out, the mainstream religions of John the Baptist's Time didn't believe in this Christ either, according to what is actually written.

The Christ "of the Bible said, John 8: 51 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, "he shall never taste of death".

53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, "which is dead"? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

And the Christ "of the Bible" replied;

54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; "but I know him": and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham "rejoiced to see my day": "and he saw it", and was glad.

In my understanding, this is the Christ "of the Bible", and HE is speaking about when HE was "Up where HE was before".

Of course, the religions of this world don't know this Christ, and therefore don't really believe in Him.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast "thou seen Abraham"?

And the Jesus "of the Bible" replied;

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, "I say" unto you, Before Abraham was, "I am".

So did those mainstream preachers of the world at that time embrace this Christ? It seems not, actually quite the opposite..

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Clearly Abraham knew this Christ though, along with the Sacrifice He would provide for Abraham and his son, as it is also written.

Gen. 22: 6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide "himself a lamb" for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

There are many other examples which speak to this Christ.

John 8: 12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

We read this Truth from the very beginning "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

This same Christ told Israel who HE was.

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret "from the beginning"; from the time that it was, "there am I": and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Zacharias knew and believed of this "Redeemer".

Luke 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As "he" spake by the mouth of "his" holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

I could go one and on regarding this Christ. The Christ you preach to me didn't exist in the Law and Prophets. Will you be persuaded to believe what is actually written? Perhaps you might consider the saying of this same Christ.

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they "hear not" Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[Aviel]

I have heard of this Christ you are promoting. A Christ that didn't exist before John the Baptist.

Who told you that Jesus didn't exist before John The Baptist?

Jesus existed before Abraham, yet not in a Human body.

However, Jesus in a Human body, born of a virgin, didn't exist in the Old Testament.
Also, the Cross of Christ, is not found in the OT, except by prophecy.

 

[Aviel]

God Himself conditions our Salvation on something we do.

Jesus is Salvation, See the Cross of Christ as the reason why.

And to receive the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, is to Give God your Faith in Christ.

As our Faith is counted by God.... as "righteousness".

This is to be "justified by faith".

 

[Aviel]

John 6: 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man "ascend up where he was before"?

@Studyman , you've never seen Jesus in person, nor ascending back into 3rd heaven.

Do you have anything else?

 

[Aviel]

Clearly Abraham knew this Christ though, a

There are many other examples which speak to this Christ.

So, basically, you just have cut and paste verses, ready to cut and paste, and that is all you can do?

Not able to explain the verse.... you just post something and say..>"see there'..

Uh huh.

Got it.
Nice colors @Studyman

However,

Abraham had no bible, no Torah, nothing.

He Had no prophetic knowledge of Jesus, as none was given Him.

What is happening to Abraham, is for our benefit, .. its so that WE can see.

 

[Studyman]

Abraham had no bible, no Torah, nothing.

He Had no prophetic knowledge of Jesus, as none was given Him.

What is happening to Abraham, is for our benefit, .. its so that WE can see.

Again, I have heard of this religion you have adopted and are now promoting since my youth. However, when a man reads the Bible for themselves, as the Scriptures instruct, a different Gospel is shown.

Gen. 18: 19 For I know him, "that he will command his children and his household after him", and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Abraham had the Word of God, your religious philosophy notwithstanding.


Gen. 26: 1 And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.

2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:

3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Why did God bless Isaac in such a way? According to the God of Abraham;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

All of which you preach to the world that Abraham didn't have. Like I said, I have heard and seen what this world's religions promote, and the Christ "of the Bible" warned me about them, both before, and after HE became a man in the person of Jesus.

I advocate that a man believes in this Christ.

 

[HIM]

You are promoting your own imagination in your teaching that the LAW of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, was not God's Law promoted in the Law and Prophets... This is just simply not true. All of God's Faithful "Walked through the Valley of the shadow of death". All men are brought into captivity to the Law of Sin and Death. It is Truth that all of God's Faithful "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made them free from the law of sin and death."

If you read the post and understood it, you would have seen the Law mentioned as not being in the Book of the Law is the Law pertaining to sin.. Not the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. 3/4 of the post is in respect to the law of sin, not what the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ is. I can see where one could get confused in what you quoted here. I will go through the posts to see if they can be worded better so as not to confuse anyone. Thanks.

And also that the "Other Law" Paul found that brought Paul into captivity, was not God's LAW found in the Law and Prophets that brought all men into the same place.

That is right it wasn't though the premise is seen in the patriarchs.
If verses state something indicatively and we think something is being said or understood elsewhere which contradicts then we need to reconsider what we think. Because what is being shown here are facts. Not just one either, several.
As was said previously, show an error below within the context of the passages shared then you will have a leg to stand on.

Paul states this law is another law in verse 23 and this is a fact. The word another is heteros in the Greek and means different. THIS makes this law, nomos in the Greek, the thing established, different from the one previously mentioned. Couple that with the fact it is said in contrast to the Law of God he delights in, in verse 22.
AND This Law that is the Law of God that he delights in was said in contrast to the law he said he found in verse 21 this is a fact. Which was said in context to the fact that when he would do good evil is present with him, and the good that he would, he can't, but the evil that he would not, that he does. Stating so he then says it wasn't him that is doing it but the sin that dwells in Him. This is the law he found that is the other law warring in his member against the Law that he delights in, the Law of God, the Torah. Can't get any clearer than that. But let's add another fact that is brought out in the grammar. Both God in the clause "law of God" and sin in the clause "law of sin" are in the genitive case in the Greek and also have their very own definite article. Which means that the law mentioned of God, is the Law of the God. And the Law mentioned of sin. is the Law of the sin, making a distinct distinction between said laws.



Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of the sin which is in my members.

 

[Aviel]

Again, I have heard of this religion you have adopted a

Christianity is not a religion.

Guess again, @Studyman

 

[HIM]

Christianity is not a religion.

Guess again, @Studyman

By definition it sure is.