The Beginning

[Rudolph1]

Ok so I'm trying to become a Christian. However, in the back of my head I keep creating questions. For instance, how can you say God created everything before the big bang (God being an uncaused first cause) and not the bang itself. I know some will say there is a cause and effect. Yes, but this situation is different because it's before time. A cause cannot be before matter and time so it was nothing. Therefore the bang be an uncaused first cause. I don't understand how God can be one but the bang itself cannot. Thanks for your help.

 

[Derf]

Ok so I'm trying to become a Christian. However, in the back of my head I keep creating questions. For instance, how can you say God created everything before the big bang (God being an uncaused first cause) and not the bang itself. I know some will say there is a cause and effect. Yes, but this situation is different because it's before time. A cause cannot be before matter and time so it was nothing. Therefore the bang be an uncaused first cause. I don't understand how God can be one but the bang itself cannot. Thanks for your help.

If God is an uncaused first cause, how can the bang not be caused? Are you saying the bang was essentially eternally destined to happen without being somehow related to the things God caused?

 

[d taylor]

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There was no big bang.

 

[Rudolph1]

If God is an uncaused first cause, how can the bang not be caused? Are you saying the bang was essentially eternally destined to happen without being somehow related to the things God caused?

So what I'm saying is it can't be destined prior to time, since there is no time there's nothing before it. This is the view without god. I'm not saying God didn't cause it I'm just acknowledging the fact that Christians often use that argument. Thanks for your reply, means alot

 

[HTacianas]

Ok so I'm trying to become a Christian. However, in the back of my head I keep creating questions. For instance, how can you say God created everything before the big bang (God being an uncaused first cause) and not the bang itself. I know some will say there is a cause and effect. Yes, but this situation is different because it's before time. A cause cannot be before matter and time so it was nothing. Therefore the bang be an uncaused first cause. I don't understand how God can be one but the bang itself cannot. Thanks for your help.

You've run up against the age old question, "if God created everything who created God"? You can ponder that all you ant but you'll most likely end up chasing your tail. We might just as well ask, "where did everything come from"? But that's a question everyone has been asking since the dawn of time. And no matter which direction you go with it you end up right back where you started from.

 

[Rudolph1]

You've run up against the age old question, "if God created everything who created God"? You can ponder that all you ant but you'll most likely end up chasing your tail. We might just as well ask, "where did everything come from"? But that's a question everyone has been asking since the dawn of time. And no matter which direction you go with it you end up right back where you started from.

I'm not really wondering what caused God. Its more so there's two possible. God created the universe or the big bang. One is labeled an uncaused first cause of the universe. Another is called a caused first cause of the universe, saying that something has to have created the big bang. However, there's no time so it's nothing, nothing causing the bang. To say that something has to have caused it is verging on categorical fallacy. I know this sounds like im being argumentative but I can't wrap my head around this and I want to believe but this is scratching at the back of my head

 

[Bradskii]

I don't get the problem. There was God. And nothing but God. Then God created something.

What am I missing?

 

[Rudolph1]

I don't get the problem. There was God. And nothing but God. Then God created something.

What am I missing?

You see there's two views, God created and the other says it just happened. But people say it can't just happened cause there has to be a cause. Cause and effect. But it's before time, therefore there can't be a cause, because nothing can exist. The issue is Christians alway says that there has to be a cause. But there cant

 

[Bradskii]

You see there's two views, God created and the other says it just happened. But people say it can't just happened cause there has to be a cause. Cause and effect.

And that cause would be...God.

Time is the rate of change. If there is nothing to change then there is no time. So there was nothing but God. Who doesn't change. Then God created everything and time came into being as well.

By the way, I don't believe any of this. Just trying to help out is all.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Then God created everything and time came into being as well.

When did he do this? How does a being outside of time sequence his actions?

And speaking of infinite regress (we weren't but...), how much of infinity did this being traverse before making the universe?

 

[Rudolph1]

And that cause would be...God.

Time is the rate of change. If there is nothing to change then there is no time. So there was nothing but God. Who doesn't change. Then God created everything and time came into being as well.

By the way, I don't believe any of this. Just trying to help out is all.

So why God and not something else

 

[Bradskii]

When did he do this? How does a being outside of time sequence his actions?

And speaking of infinite regress (we weren't but...), how much of infinity did this being traverse before making the universe?

'When?' only makes sense if there is time. God isn't outside time because there's no time to be outside. Don't think of God as existing in infinite time. He exists eternally, which is 'a state to which time has no application; timelessness.'

 

[AV1611VET]

Ok so I'm trying to become a Christian. However, in the back of my head I keep creating questions. For instance, how can you say God created everything before the big bang (God being an uncaused first cause) and not the bang itself. I know some will say there is a cause and effect. Yes, but this situation is different because it's before time. A cause cannot be before matter and time so it was nothing. Therefore the bang be an uncaused first cause. I don't understand how God can be one but the bang itself cannot. Thanks for your help.

Hi, Rudolph!

Welcome to CF!

The Kalam Cosmological Argument answers this nicely.

It goes like this:

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause.

And that cause is God.

 

[Bradskii]

So why God and not something else

Well, it needs to be God if you want to believe in Him. But there's a lot more that you'll need to accept that comes with that. Virgin birth, sent His son to die for us, resurrection, miracles, heaven and hell, Holy Ghost, angels, Satan etc. I can recommend a book you could read.

 

[Rudolph1]

Hi, Rudolph!

Welcome to CF!

The Kalam Cosmological Argument answers this nicely.

It goes like this:

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause.

And that cause is God.

I like how your argument is clean and concise but I just have a hard time with the first premise since this situation isn't like any other. Makes sense if everything has a cause in time. However, this situation, there is no time. So it would act differently. And this is where I kind of find it to be a categorical fallacy.

 

[Laodicean60]

I went for a walk the other day and saw a red ant carrying a twig. Then I thought to myself how in the world did that ant know exactly what to pick up and take back home. So, if I can't figure out what ants do, how is my peanut brain going to figure out what a super powerful being (God) does things and why, in whatever dimension he lives in. Or an ant understanding the complexities of my life. Excuse me I had a couple. beers.

matter

All matter is made up of atoms which are empty space in themselves, It is said that things are solid because electrons dance and closely knited together. Now after the bang and everything was created how did these atoms come together to form nature on earth? Peace

 

[Rudolph1]

Well, it needs to be God if you want to believe in Him. But there's a lot more that you'll need to accept that comes with that. Virgin birth, sent His son to die for us, resurrection, miracles, heaven and hell, Holy Ghost, angels, Satan etc. I can recommend a book you could read.

So is it just faith then at the end of the day

 

[Rudolph1]

I went for a walk the other day and saw a red ant carrying a twig. Then I thought to myself how in the world did that ant know exactly what to pick up and take back home. So, if I can't figure out what ants do, how is my peanut brain going to figure out what a super powerful being (God) does things and why, in whatever dimension he lives in. Or an ant understanding the complexities of my life. Excuse me I had a couple. beers.

All matter is made up of atoms which are empty space in themselves, It is said that things are solid because electrons dance and closely knited together. Now after the bang and everything was created how did these atoms come together to form nature on earth? Peace

I know the chances are very low but that's a whole different argument right now I'm just trying to see why God and not something else.

 

[Bradskii]

Makes sense if everything has a cause in time.

Stop with the time already. Forget time. God doesn't exist in or outside time. He is eternal. Which doesn't relate to time. Don't bother trying to conceptualise it - it's not humanly possible.

And God, so I have been led to believe, is omnipotent. So there was nothing (and don't try to think about that either), then He made everything.

QED

 

[Bradskii]

So is it just faith then at the end of the day

Yep.