Salvation in a moment versus taking up one's cross

[Bob8102]

Because I have religious OCD, I am tending to wonder whether or not I am a Christian. Therefore, this is being posted in “Struggles by Non-Christians.” A person with religious OCD has the OCD doubt machine attack their belief in their own salvation frequently. In my today’s Bible reading, I read one of the places where Jesus says to take up one’s cross and follow him. I believe in salvation in a moment. In some places in the Bible, such as when Jesus counseled the rich young ruler, it says harsh things like take up one’s cross and follow Jesus. In other places, it indicates instantaneous salvation. For instance, in the gospel of John, a man has travelled from another city to meet Jesus. He begs Jesus for the life of his dying son. Jesus said, “Your son lives.” I think this was about one o’clock in the afternoon. The man returned to his own city. As he approached his house the next day, his servants met him and said that the fever had left his son. He inquired about when this happened. They told him the time his son was healed and he realized it was at the same time Jesus had told him his son lives, the day before. It says, then, simply, “Then he believed and his whole household.” At another point, Jesus told the sinful woman who was washing his feet at a dinner party, “Your sins are forgiven.” He said the same to the paralytic who was let down in front of him through the roof of a house. He told the woman at the well that he had living water for her. She believed and asked for the living water. Each of these instances were where the person believed and got saved in a moment. He did not say to any of them, take up your cross and follow me. Based on my knowledge of Christian/gospel doctrine, I suppose that the “instant believers” each, in their heart, along with “believing,” immediately decided to take up their cross and follow Jesus.

I have long concentrated on the moment of salvation. I have long sought the moment of salvation. That is because I know that after that moment, one’s sins are permanently forgiven. Salvation cannot be yanked from you after you have it, no matter what. Anybody who says otherwise I vehemently disagree with. Salvation occurs in a moment. But that is one incredible moment! Jesus said tough things like “count the cost” and that he who places his hands to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the kingdom of heaven. So, my question is, what does one have to do to really be saved? On the one hand, they have to deny themselves and take up their cross; on the other hand, the moment one believes, they are saved. I suppose it has something to do with trusting Jesus. I forgot to mention at the start of this that besides OCD, I have wavering faith. For me, trust and following Jesus can come and go on the scale of moments. I can seriously give my life to Christ at one moment, and the next be back to the way I normally am, which I suppose is: living for myself. I try to say to Jesus, ‘since you save in a moment and you do not waver, Ephesians 1:13-14 apply to me.’ Ephesians 1:13b says that believers HAVE trusted Christ, past tense, and that they were then sealed by the Holy Spirit. I want to believe that I HAVE trusted Christ, whether or not I am continuing to trust him at the present moment, and am therefore sealed by the Holy Spirit. But my OCD and wavering faith conspire to make me doubt my salvation again, shortly. How much psychological prepping, for how long, does one have to do to decide to bear one’s cross and follow Jesus? If one supposedly trusts Christ for a moment, but then their faith wavers away two seconds later, then they can wonder about the reality of their conversion.

What must I do to be saved?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Something to keep in mind is at the time Jesus was calling for people to become full fleged disciples. To be like missionaries who give up all they have and go to a foreign land to serve Christ. I don't think everyone who's disciple of Christ these days are called to go to such great lengths. At least not here in the US. In countries where being a Christian is against the law, great sacrifice is inevitable.

 

[OldAbramBrown]

Faith comes from belief, belief comes from listening, and listening comes from the whole of Jesus' teachings including those we can only infer though not printed in detail.

What you here put down to OCD sounds to me in this instance more like wishing to figure out what your teachers would have wanted to say assuming they were of goodwill.

You listened to Jesus over a long period and that is when your belief grew.

According to Jn 3:16 those who continue to believe shall continue to be able to live in the eternal life "dimension" and to be able to thrive in God's Household.

In my young day there was still a doctrine called "assurance" which reminded us of these true facts.

 

[d taylor]

-
​

John 5:24 states a when a person believes (in Jesus) they cross over from death to life. The verse does not say will eventually cross over from death to life after you have live a life following Jesus.

Receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life and becoming a born again child of God happens at the very moment of belief in Jesus, The Bible says so.

 

[Sir Joseph]

Because I have religious OCD, I am tending to wonder whether or not I am a Christian. Therefore, this is being posted in “Struggles by Non-Christians.” A person with religious OCD has the OCD doubt machine attack their belief in their own salvation frequently. In my today’s Bible reading, I read one of the places where Jesus says to take up one’s cross and follow him. I believe in salvation in a moment. In some places in the Bible, such as when Jesus counseled the rich young ruler, it says harsh things like take up one’s cross and follow Jesus. In other places, it indicates instantaneous salvation. For instance, in the gospel of John, a man has travelled from another city to meet Jesus. He begs Jesus for the life of his dying son. Jesus said, “Your son lives.” I think this was about one o’clock in the afternoon. The man returned to his own city. As he approached his house the next day, his servants met him and said that the fever had left his son. He inquired about when this happened. They told him the time his son was healed and he realized it was at the same time Jesus had told him his son lives, the day before. It says, then, simply, “Then he believed and his whole household.” At another point, Jesus told the sinful woman who was washing his feet at a dinner party, “Your sins are forgiven.” He said the same to the paralytic who was let down in front of him through the roof of a house. He told the woman at the well that he had living water for her. She believed and asked for the living water. Each of these instances were where the person believed and got saved in a moment. He did not say to any of them, take up your cross and follow me. Based on my knowledge of Christian/gospel doctrine, I suppose that the “instant believers” each, in their heart, along with “believing,” immediately decided to take up their cross and follow Jesus.

I have long concentrated on the moment of salvation. I have long sought the moment of salvation. That is because I know that after that moment, one’s sins are permanently forgiven. Salvation cannot be yanked from you after you have it, no matter what. Anybody who says otherwise I vehemently disagree with. Salvation occurs in a moment. But that is one incredible moment! Jesus said tough things like “count the cost” and that he who places his hands to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the kingdom of heaven. So, my question is, what does one have to do to really be saved? On the one hand, they have to deny themselves and take up their cross; on the other hand, the moment one believes, they are saved. I suppose it has something to do with trusting Jesus. I forgot to mention at the start of this that besides OCD, I have wavering faith. For me, trust and following Jesus can come and go on the scale of moments. I can seriously give my life to Christ at one moment, and the next be back to the way I normally am, which I suppose is: living for myself. I try to say to Jesus, ‘since you save in a moment and you do not waver, Ephesians 1:13-14 apply to me.’ Ephesians 1:13b says that believers HAVE trusted Christ, past tense, and that they were then sealed by the Holy Spirit. I want to believe that I HAVE trusted Christ, whether or not I am continuing to trust him at the present moment, and am therefore sealed by the Holy Spirit. But my OCD and wavering faith conspire to make me doubt my salvation again, shortly. How much psychological prepping, for how long, does one have to do to decide to bear one’s cross and follow Jesus? If one supposedly trusts Christ for a moment, but then their faith wavers away two seconds later, then they can wonder about the reality of their conversion.

What must I do to be saved?

I think you have a proper view of salvation by grace, not works, detailed in your first paragraph. But, your second paragraph suggests that you're struggling with the sanctification process that comes afterwards, be it with strong enough faith or good enough works. That's a reasonable phase for any believer.

Know first that not all of us Christians can pin point our "moment of salvation." In my case, I don't know if it's because it was a gradual process or if I just can't remember what I did as a child. I do know though that I believe in the Bible's authority, know and love God, and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of my life. Whenever a preacher or my own subpar performance gives me cause to question my salvation, I have good scripture to reassure me otherwise.

So, like you and all Christians, I struggle with the sanctification process that comes after being saved. It always causes guilt and questioning one's status as a genuine Christian. Such is the work of the Devil, countered best by watching a sermon every morning to get one's heart focused properly - that we're saved by Jesus' work on the cross and his righteousness, not our own. Now, if you have no desire or intent to follow Jesus, then there's valid reason to question your claimed belief, but if you're trying but constantly failing, welcome to the club of imperfect Christians.

Finally, let me make a distinction between having faith (believing and being saved) versus behaving faithfully (by following Jesus completely in thoughts, actions and words). I believe that the second goal is an impossible standard that we all strive for but fall short. It needn't though disrupt the first goal. Let me explain.

The truth of God's existence, the Bible's authority, and the Christian Gospel message is supported by science, archaeological evidence, history, fulfilled prophesy, manuscript authority, and textual criticism. Anyone with an open heart, unsure or questioning the faith's foundations, can study this evidence and find the basis for it solid and strong. Once you know that mentally, there's little reason for your heart to doubt God, the Bible, and the Gospel message of salvation. Thus, I always suggest that people study Christian apologetics so that their faith can be grounded firmly in knowledge, not dissuaded by secular education, media, cultural pressures or even personal performance.

 

[Gary K]

Because I have religious OCD, I am tending to wonder whether or not I am a Christian. Therefore, this is being posted in “Struggles by Non-Christians.” A person with religious OCD has the OCD doubt machine attack their belief in their own salvation frequently. In my today’s Bible reading, I read one of the places where Jesus says to take up one’s cross and follow him. I believe in salvation in a moment. In some places in the Bible, such as when Jesus counseled the rich young ruler, it says harsh things like take up one’s cross and follow Jesus. In other places, it indicates instantaneous salvation. For instance, in the gospel of John, a man has travelled from another city to meet Jesus. He begs Jesus for the life of his dying son. Jesus said, “Your son lives.” I think this was about one o’clock in the afternoon. The man returned to his own city. As he approached his house the next day, his servants met him and said that the fever had left his son. He inquired about when this happened. They told him the time his son was healed and he realized it was at the same time Jesus had told him his son lives, the day before. It says, then, simply, “Then he believed and his whole household.” At another point, Jesus told the sinful woman who was washing his feet at a dinner party, “Your sins are forgiven.” He said the same to the paralytic who was let down in front of him through the roof of a house. He told the woman at the well that he had living water for her. She believed and asked for the living water. Each of these instances were where the person believed and got saved in a moment. He did not say to any of them, take up your cross and follow me. Based on my knowledge of Christian/gospel doctrine, I suppose that the “instant believers” each, in their heart, along with “believing,” immediately decided to take up their cross and follow Jesus.

I have long concentrated on the moment of salvation. I have long sought the moment of salvation. That is because I know that after that moment, one’s sins are permanently forgiven. Salvation cannot be yanked from you after you have it, no matter what. Anybody who says otherwise I vehemently disagree with. Salvation occurs in a moment. But that is one incredible moment! Jesus said tough things like “count the cost” and that he who places his hands to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the kingdom of heaven. So, my question is, what does one have to do to really be saved? On the one hand, they have to deny themselves and take up their cross; on the other hand, the moment one believes, they are saved. I suppose it has something to do with trusting Jesus. I forgot to mention at the start of this that besides OCD, I have wavering faith. For me, trust and following Jesus can come and go on the scale of moments. I can seriously give my life to Christ at one moment, and the next be back to the way I normally am, which I suppose is: living for myself. I try to say to Jesus, ‘since you save in a moment and you do not waver, Ephesians 1:13-14 apply to me.’ Ephesians 1:13b says that believers HAVE trusted Christ, past tense, and that they were then sealed by the Holy Spirit. I want to believe that I HAVE trusted Christ, whether or not I am continuing to trust him at the present moment, and am therefore sealed by the Holy Spirit. But my OCD and wavering faith conspire to make me doubt my salvation again, shortly. How much psychological prepping, for how long, does one have to do to decide to bear one’s cross and follow Jesus? If one supposedly trusts Christ for a moment, but then their faith wavers away two seconds later, then they can wonder about the reality of their conversion.

What must I do to be saved?

Follow Jesus' advice. We cannot become dedicated Christians on our own. We need to do several things to become that way, First we need to acknowledge that we need help and it sounds to me as if you're there,

Next we need to ask Jesus into our heart every day and ask Him to send the Holy Spirit to us every day to change our heart and give us the right motives. We need daily Bible study too and it sounds like you;re already doing that. It sounds to me as if you're already doing some of the right things so congrats on that. For those of us who are really concientious and truly desire to be a good Christian we end up falling and failing every day when we attempt to follow Jesus on our own power. We need that power that can only come from God to change who we are instead of relying on ourselves. Unfortunately not a lot of people seem to know this and keep on falling and failing and thus become discouraged and either leave the church or become satisfied with failing. Congrats on not giving into that and asking for help. If you just turn to Jesus you will live a victorious Christian life.

Just beware that when you start living the victorious life the devil will come after you and really work hard to discourage you or distract you from spending the time you need with Jesus every day. Been there and done that. It's his strategy with everyone because he knows if we stay close to Jesus he will lose and it makes him mad to lose.

 

[ldonjohn]

Because I have religious OCD, I am tending to wonder whether or not I am a Christian. Therefore, this is being posted in “Struggles by Non-Christians.” A person with religious OCD has the OCD doubt machine attack their belief in their own salvation frequently. In my today’s Bible reading, I read one of the places where Jesus says to take up one’s cross and follow him. I believe in salvation in a moment. In some places in the Bible, such as when Jesus counseled the rich young ruler, it says harsh things like take up one’s cross and follow Jesus. In other places, it indicates instantaneous salvation. For instance, in the gospel of John, a man has travelled from another city to meet Jesus. He begs Jesus for the life of his dying son. Jesus said, “Your son lives.” I think this was about one o’clock in the afternoon. The man returned to his own city. As he approached his house the next day, his servants met him and said that the fever had left his son. He inquired about when this happened. They told him the time his son was healed and he realized it was at the same time Jesus had told him his son lives, the day before. It says, then, simply, “Then he believed and his whole household.” At another point, Jesus told the sinful woman who was washing his feet at a dinner party, “Your sins are forgiven.” He said the same to the paralytic who was let down in front of him through the roof of a house. He told the woman at the well that he had living water for her. She believed and asked for the living water. Each of these instances were where the person believed and got saved in a moment. He did not say to any of them, take up your cross and follow me. Based on my knowledge of Christian/gospel doctrine, I suppose that the “instant believers” each, in their heart, along with “believing,” immediately decided to take up their cross and follow Jesus.

I have long concentrated on the moment of salvation. I have long sought the moment of salvation. That is because I know that after that moment, one’s sins are permanently forgiven. Salvation cannot be yanked from you after you have it, no matter what. Anybody who says otherwise I vehemently disagree with. Salvation occurs in a moment. But that is one incredible moment! Jesus said tough things like “count the cost” and that he who places his hands to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the kingdom of heaven. So, my question is, what does one have to do to really be saved? On the one hand, they have to deny themselves and take up their cross; on the other hand, the moment one believes, they are saved. I suppose it has something to do with trusting Jesus. I forgot to mention at the start of this that besides OCD, I have wavering faith. For me, trust and following Jesus can come and go on the scale of moments. I can seriously give my life to Christ at one moment, and the next be back to the way I normally am, which I suppose is: living for myself. I try to say to Jesus, ‘since you save in a moment and you do not waver, Ephesians 1:13-14 apply to me.’ Ephesians 1:13b says that believers HAVE trusted Christ, past tense, and that they were then sealed by the Holy Spirit. I want to believe that I HAVE trusted Christ, whether or not I am continuing to trust him at the present moment, and am therefore sealed by the Holy Spirit. But my OCD and wavering faith conspire to make me doubt my salvation again, shortly. How much psychological prepping, for how long, does one have to do to decide to bear one’s cross and follow Jesus? If one supposedly trusts Christ for a moment, but then their faith wavers away two seconds later, then they can wonder about the reality of their conversion.

What must I do to be saved?

Find and read the sermon "What Must I Do to Be Saved?" by Dr. John R Rice. Also, he has another great sermon, "How to Come to Jesus."

 

[linux.poet]

Romans 10:9 is clear:

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

In order to be saved, you:

1. Jesus Christ is Lord. You submit to Christ's authority over your life, and you recognize him as your life's rightful authority.
2. You believe that Jesus was raised from the dead 2000+ years ago. You acknowledge that historical fact as true, and believe that His sacrifice is the only atonement for sin that satisfied God's wrath against you for your sin. Therefore, you stop trying to appease God with good works and earn salvation.

Believing is not a feeling, it's an act of the mind, an acknowledgement that something is true. Therefore, if you acknowledge Jesus' death and resurrection as true and his authority as rightful and valid, you are saved.

Recognitions of the mind can happen slowly or quickly. Some of us have a moment where we realized that the resurrection was true and made a flashy acknowledgement of submission. Others simply know those things are true and have lived submitted for as long as they remember. Others gradually come to agree the resurrections is true and take on Jesus' commands and oh, Jesus is the rightful authority of my life, yeah that makes sense. The mind is different for different people.

Please do seek treatment for your mental illness. May I forward the advice of Dr. Henry Cloud: do remember that you and God are separate beings, for not knowing where you begin and God ends is likely the root of religious OCD. Everyone is entirely separate from God as an independent being and must acknowledge his authority, sacrifice, and resurrection apart from Him as a being. (Not apart from His actions on you, but I do not want to confuse you further. May the Lord be with you, but may He not be you!)

 

[OldAbramBrown]

I keep saying: the people that teach you are not helping you.
Salvation will be future and its foundation is to be laid in the now by Holy Spirit.
Wouldbe believers have to get an entirely different set of beliefs.

 

[com7fy8]

Trust Jesus to do what He wants with you. With Jesus you are in the love which had Him leave Heaven and so suffer and die for us.

The cross you carry is not some amount of trouble in our lives. The cross has to do with living this love which was in Jesus on that cross.

You love people who do not deserve your love and forgiveness. You value loving undeserving people more than you want to have your own nice little heaven on earth.

So, the cross means becoming humble like Jesus, not conceited and therefore not looking down on any other person.

But love "hopes all things" > in 1 Corinthians 13:7 > like how Jesus on the cross had hope for all of us.

 

[Soyeong]

Because I have religious OCD, I am tending to wonder whether or not I am a Christian. Therefore, this is being posted in “Struggles by Non-Christians.” A person with religious OCD has the OCD doubt machine attack their belief in their own salvation frequently. In my today’s Bible reading, I read one of the places where Jesus says to take up one’s cross and follow him. I believe in salvation in a moment. In some places in the Bible, such as when Jesus counseled the rich young ruler, it says harsh things like take up one’s cross and follow Jesus. In other places, it indicates instantaneous salvation. For instance, in the gospel of John, a man has travelled from another city to meet Jesus. He begs Jesus for the life of his dying son. Jesus said, “Your son lives.” I think this was about one o’clock in the afternoon. The man returned to his own city. As he approached his house the next day, his servants met him and said that the fever had left his son. He inquired about when this happened. They told him the time his son was healed and he realized it was at the same time Jesus had told him his son lives, the day before. It says, then, simply, “Then he believed and his whole household.” At another point, Jesus told the sinful woman who was washing his feet at a dinner party, “Your sins are forgiven.” He said the same to the paralytic who was let down in front of him through the roof of a house. He told the woman at the well that he had living water for her. She believed and asked for the living water. Each of these instances were where the person believed and got saved in a moment. He did not say to any of them, take up your cross and follow me. Based on my knowledge of Christian/gospel doctrine, I suppose that the “instant believers” each, in their heart, along with “believing,” immediately decided to take up their cross and follow Jesus.

I have long concentrated on the moment of salvation. I have long sought the moment of salvation. That is because I know that after that moment, one’s sins are permanently forgiven. Salvation cannot be yanked from you after you have it, no matter what. Anybody who says otherwise I vehemently disagree with. Salvation occurs in a moment. But that is one incredible moment! Jesus said tough things like “count the cost” and that he who places his hands to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the kingdom of heaven. So, my question is, what does one have to do to really be saved? On the one hand, they have to deny themselves and take up their cross; on the other hand, the moment one believes, they are saved. I suppose it has something to do with trusting Jesus. I forgot to mention at the start of this that besides OCD, I have wavering faith. For me, trust and following Jesus can come and go on the scale of moments. I can seriously give my life to Christ at one moment, and the next be back to the way I normally am, which I suppose is: living for myself. I try to say to Jesus, ‘since you save in a moment and you do not waver, Ephesians 1:13-14 apply to me.’ Ephesians 1:13b says that believers HAVE trusted Christ, past tense, and that they were then sealed by the Holy Spirit. I want to believe that I HAVE trusted Christ, whether or not I am continuing to trust him at the present moment, and am therefore sealed by the Holy Spirit. But my OCD and wavering faith conspire to make me doubt my salvation again, shortly. How much psychological prepping, for how long, does one have to do to decide to bear one’s cross and follow Jesus? If one supposedly trusts Christ for a moment, but then their faith wavers away two seconds later, then they can wonder about the reality of their conversion.

What must I do to be saved?

There is an instantaneous aspect of our salvation from sin insofar as we are saved from the penalty of our sin at the moment that we believe, however, our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continue to live in sin, so there must also be an aspect of our salvation that we are experiencing in the present. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so it is not the case that we are required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and it is not the case that we are required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is the content of His gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present.