Salt Lake City Bar Under Fire for Its ‘No Zionists Allowed’ Policy

[durangodawood]

.....some of the plain friendliness I encountered.

Regarding the friendliness, I did have the advantage of going mostly to parts of Japan where international tourists dont generally visit. I understand parts of Kyoto and some other famous spots are suffering a bit from overtourism and the experience there might be a bit different. But theres the whole rest of the huge country when not a ton of people go, and imo a lot of it is pretty fascinating and beautiful.

When I was in Kitsuki they told me tell people to come here! So now I'm telling you all.

 

[durangodawood]

After the Canaanites who no longer exist, you had Jews, then Arabs and Jews. Sounds more bi-cultural than multicultural to me.

What about Roman Judea? And even modern Jews bring cultural diversity from the various long term diaspora locations.

Bland? Japan is famous for being weird. There's even a long-running website called japanisweird.com.

I said melting pots are bland. Like the US midwest where all these diverse Euro cultures assimilated into one consumerist "American" mono blob. Japan is not that, remaining mostly just Japanese. I agree Japan is weird, which is fun for the visitor.

I prefer melting pots. Tossed salad kinds of places don't do so well politically. Thomas Sowell wrote about this.

Im thinking of some of the worlds great cities, where immigrants have their various neighborhoods that are interesting to visit. I do agree that everyone has to subscribe to some fundamentally similar values for the society to function well.

 

[RileyG]

Interesting, considering how LDS Utah is, I didn’t know they had many bars.

 

[Chesterton]

What about Roman Judea? And even modern Jews bring cultural diversity from the various long term diaspora locations.

Roman Judea was Jews. And yes they bring some cultural diversity. There are even kosher McDonald's restaurants in Jerusalem. But I thought your issue was with with racial diversity.

I said melting pots are bland. Like the US midwest where all these diverse Euro cultures assimilated into one consumerist "American" mono blob. Japan is not that, remaining mostly just Japanese. I agree Japan is weird, which is fun for the visitor.

Japan has never needed to melt, it's already melted. One very nice thing about what you call the Midwest mono blob is that they are not killing each other. I prefer peace over being entertaining or interesting.

Im thinking of some of the worlds great cities, where immigrants have their various neighborhoods that are interesting to visit. I do agree that everyone has to subscribe to some fundamentally similar values for the society to function well.

Do you think it's wrong or immoral that immigrants have own neighborhoods?

 

[durangodawood]

Roman Judea was Jews. And yes they bring some cultural diversity. There are even kosher McDonald's restaurants in Jerusalem. But I thought your issue was with with racial diversity.

My problem is with a state, or any geo-political unit really, thats premised on a racial, ethnic, or religious exclusivity. Obviously other institutions will want to discriminate, which is fine. The Catholic church for instance is for Catholics.

Japan has never needed to melt, it's already melted. One very nice thing about what you call the Midwest mono blob is that they are not killing each other. I prefer peace over being entertaining or interesting.

Diverse people can get along without melting. They just have to subscribe to some more fundamental common values. Absent that, then yeah, its not going to work.

Do you think it's wrong or immoral that immigrants have own neighborhoods?

Its fine. Its people sorting themselves out as they see fit without force of law doing it for them.

 

[Chesterton]

Interesting, considering how LDS Utah is, I didn’t know they had many bars.

Funny trivia here: first time I was in Park City, Utah, we went to a bar in the afternoon and ordered beers. The bartender said he couldn't sell us alcohol because the "bar" was a private club and only members could purchase alcohol. Priding myself on being a quick thinker, I asked how we could become members. Bartender says we have to be sponsored by a current member. Then a drunk who's sitting at the bar raises his right hand and says "I sponsor you". Then they gave us our beers.

Yes, some politicians are actually responsible for that situation. Pretty amazing.

 

[durangodawood]

Funny trivia here: first time I was in Park City, Utah, we went to a bar in the afternoon and ordered beers. The bartender said he couldn't sell us alcohol because the "bar" was a private club and only members could purchase alcohol. Priding myself on being a quick thinker, I asked how we could become members. Bartender says we have to be sponsored by a current member. Then a drunk who's sitting at the bar raises his right hand and says "I sponsor you". Then they gave us our beers.

Yes, some politicians are actually responsible for that situation. Pretty amazing.

Theyve been trying to back away from that and join the modern world. I think the 02 Olympics had something to do with that. Imagine thousands of Euro sports tourists each encountering your situation.

 

[Vanellus]

Like how common a position is that? Any data?

List of Jewish anti-Zionist organizations - Wikipedia

 

[Vanellus]

I don't know what you're talking about. Non-Jews in Israel have all the rights Jews have. They serve the in the Israeli parliament and on their Supreme Court.

Wrong:
https://thisisapartheid.btselem.org/eng/#21

• Citizenship – Jews living anywhere in the world, their children and grandchildren – and their spouses – are entitled to Israeli citizenship. In contrast, Palestinians cannot immigrate to Israeli-controlled areas, even if they, their parents or their grandparents were born and lived there. Israel makes it difficult for Palestinians who live in one of the units it controls to obtain status in another, and has enacted legislation that prohibits granting Palestinians who marry Israelis status within the Green Line.
  
• Freedom of movement – Israeli citizens enjoy freedom of movement in the entire area controlled by Israel (with the exception of the Gaza Strip) and may enter and leave the country freely. Palestinian subjects, on the other hand, require a special Israeli-issued permit to travel between the units (and sometimes inside them), and exit abroad also requires Israeli approval.

 

[Chesterton]

My problem is with a state, or any geo-political unit really, thats premised on a racial, ethnic, or religious exclusivity. Obviously other institutions will want to discriminate, which is fine. The Catholic church for instance is for Catholics.

You don't have to be premised on something to de facto enforce it.

Diverse people can get along without melting. They just have to subscribe to some more fundamental common values. Absent that, then yeah, its not going to work.

I'd say subscribing to common values is the most important part of melting. The music you like, the food you like, the clothes your wear - all that stuff's superficial.

 

[Chesterton]

Wrong:
https://thisisapartheid.btselem.org/eng/#21

I was talking about citizens, you're talking about non-citizens. Nice try.

 

[Bradskii]

I know you've been to Japan. I think you said you like Japan. You must be familiar with how extremely difficult it is to obtain Japanese citizenship if you're not racially Japanese.

Justbas an indication of the Japanese sense of self, there has been some disquiet there when a Ukranian born but Japanese raised woman became Miss Japan.

 

[Bradskii]

Funny trivia here: first time I was in Park City, Utah...

One about Japan: Wife and I plus another Aussie couple scored a table one evening in a very small eatery in a Tokyo backstreet. Ordered beers all round immediately. Then the food. Had another round of beers as we were eating and I called for a roadie (is that an Australianism? One for the road in other words) just before we finished. Within a couple of minutes of the table being cleared, as were chatting and drinking the beer, one of the cook/waiters came over and showed me his Google translate on his phone. Which simply said: 'You have finished. Please go'.

I think there was something, excuse the term, lost in translation as they are invariably incredibly polite. But I guess the concept of having a beer without food is not a recognised concept in small places that need a quick turnover of customers. We had to laugh, but then there was a flurry of translations back and forth as we tried to suggest that we could finish the beers off outside. Another concept that seemed to not exist.

 

[RileyG]

Funny trivia here: first time I was in Park City, Utah, we went to a bar in the afternoon and ordered beers. The bartender said he couldn't sell us alcohol because the "bar" was a private club and only members could purchase alcohol. Priding myself on being a quick thinker, I asked how we could become members. Bartender says we have to be sponsored by a current member. Then a drunk who's sitting at the bar raises his right hand and says "I sponsor you". Then they gave us our beers.

Yes, some politicians are actually responsible for that situation. Pretty amazing.

Wow. Very strange indeed.

 

[Chesterton]

Justbas an indication of the Japanese sense of self, there has been some disquiet there when a Ukranian born but Japanese raised woman became Miss Japan.

View attachment 343792

Some disquiet? SOME DISQUIET?? That's it. I'm henceforth boycotting racist Japan. I'm going outside to burn my Toyota and my transistor radio in protest.

 

[Chesterton]

Within a couple of minutes of the table being cleared, as were chatting and drinking the beer, one of the cook/waiters came over and showed me his Google translate on his phone. Which simply said: 'You have finished. Please go'.

Are you sure you guys weren't being drunk and disorderly? Back in my drinking days, I can't even tell you how many times I was told "You have finished. Please go". I heard it from restaurants, bars, sporting events, weddings, funerals, private residences, you name it.

 

[Bradskii]

Some disquiet? SOME DISQUIET?? That's it. I'm henceforth boycotting racist Japan. I'm going outside to burn my Toyota and my transistor radio in protest.

You have still have a transistor radio? Well, I guess some amps still use valves.

 

[Bradskii]

Are you sure you guys weren't being drunk and disorderly? Back in my drinking days, I can't even tell you how many times I was told "You have finished. Please go". I heard it from restaurants, bars, sporting events, weddings, funerals, private residences, you name it.

It's called 'cutting off' here. As in, the barman tells you he is cutting off your supply of beer. You can stay, but no more booze, buddy.

 

[Chesterton]

You have still have a transistor radio? Well, I guess some amps still use valves.

Yes. With all the social media I'm involved in, I like to retain at least one form of unsocial media.

It's called 'cutting off' here. As in, the barman tells you he is cutting off your supply of beer. You can stay, but no more booze, buddy.

Getting "cut off" is what it's called here also. A fate worse than death, lol.

 

[Vanellus]

I was talking about citizens, you're talking about non-citizens. Nice try.

Wrong again:

Within Israel’s sovereign territory, Palestinians make up some 17% of the state’s citizenry. As Israeli citizens, they are afforded certain rights, yet these are not equal to those of their Jewish counterparts

https://thisisapartheid.btselem.org/eng/#4