Russian media attitudes towards war on Ukraine (Orthodox-related)

[archer75]

RIA Novosti (RIA News), a Russian state media outlet, published this in the last day: Что Россия должна сделать с Украиной (text in Russian) (title: What Russia Should Do With Ukraine)
(Edit: here is an English translation of the article linked above: What should Russia do with Ukraine? [Translation of a propaganda article by a Russian journalist])

This article says that:

• the majority of the population of Ukraine are Nazis
• the entire government must be liquidated, along with anyone who serves in or supports the Ukrainian armed forces
• "denazification" can be performed only by the victor (Russia), who must have total control of the country in order to do it
• the country must lose its sovereignty in order to be denazified
• the name "Ukraine" cannot continue to be used for the "republics" that will be set up in the territory of Ukraine after Ukraine has been denazified
• the newly denazified Ukraine cannot be politically neutral, it must be dependent on Russia to pay for the crime of treating Russia like an enemy
• denazification must also be "de-Ukrainization": the evil Soviets pumped up the idea of a Ukrainian ethnicity. Once Soviet power collapsed, the fake "Ukrainians" started clinging to the West as their new "superpower."
• Unlike Georgia and the Baltic states, the very attempt to have a Ukraine independent of Russia necessarily leads to Nazism.
• "The social 'swamp' that has actively and passively supported the Nazi leadership must suffer the burdens of war and take this as an historical lesson and atonement for its guilt." ("Социальное "болото", активно и пассивно ее поддержавшее действием и бездействием, должно пережить тяготы войны и усвоить пережитый опыт как исторический урок и искупление своей вины.")
• The far West of Ukraine may be left as a kind of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] of "Ukraine" (with no political power or sovreignty) to which the Russia-haters may flee. The remaining territories (most of Ukraine) may then be integrated into Russian civilization.
• All functionaries of the Nazi regime must be set to work doing forced labor to restore the ruined infrastructure, as punishment for their Nazi activities (except those who are put to death or imprisoned)
• Russia must oversee "grassroots" denazification as well, which means forbidding anything that could regenerate Nazi ideology [note: since the very notion of Ukraine or Ukrainianness leads to Nazism, as said above, presumably this means making the use of Ukrainian language illegal as well]

I think every Orthodox adult should know that this sort of thing is being published on Russian state media. The Russian media apparatus is calling for the destruction of an entire ethnicity. This is genocide--the intentional destruction of a people.

Many Orthodox look up to Russia, even contemporary Russia, as some sort of bastion of Orthodoxy or conservatism. All who do so should know about this kind of publication. I can find nothing on the ROC's website that says that this is wrong, which it is.

The planned extermination of a people, as a people, has been announced on Russian state media. There is no pushback from the hierarchs or from the ROC as an organization that I can find evidence of.

 

[gzt]

I will only say that it is some consolation that these people apparently dislike Nazis, don't wish to be associated with them, and believe they still exist somewhere.

 

[ArmyMatt]

lovely

 

[DraculKain]

I will only say that it is some consolation that these people apparently dislike Nazis, don't wish to be associated with them, and believe they still exist somewhere.

Sadly your last point is very much on the mark. Where I grew up no one would show racist beliefs because they would be shunned by pretty much everyone. Where I live now and cannot wait to leave a swastika tattoo is as common as a tribal tattoo in a frat house.

Lord have mercy.

 

[archer75]

Okay, I found something. From March 15 on patriarchia.ru. Transcript of remarks by A. V. Shchipkov. Bold italics mine.

So, although I can't find this on the English side of the site, patriarchia.ru puts up materials that use reality (BLM and its false claims) to prop up the false notion that Ukraine is a Nazi country.

"Throughout this process, following the rejection of Christian [humanism], a rejection of secular humanism is now taking place. It is being replaced by transhumanism in various forms. Liberal globalism is rapidly becoming radicalized, installing radical leftist ideology in its countries and exporting Nazism (Ukraine is the most striking example)."
(В ходе этого процесса вслед за отказом от христианского происходит отказ уже и от светского гуманизма, замена его трансгуманизмом в самых разных формах. Либеральный глобализм стремительно радикализируется, инсталлируя в своих странах радикальную леволиберальную идеологию (BLM) и поставляя на экспорт нацизм (Украина — ярчайший тому пример).)

Further, here there is an article on patriarchia.ru that says that the traditional religions of Russia are united in saying "no" to Nazism. While saying "no" to Nazism is undoubtedly good, this provides more atmosphere of support for the false claim that Ukraine is a Nazi country that planned to destroy Russia.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Okay, I found something. From March 15 on patriarchia.ru. Transcript of remarks by A. V. Shchipkov. Bold italics mine.

So, although I can't find this on the English side of the site, patriarchia.ru puts up materials that use reality (BLM and its false claims) to prop up the false notion that Ukraine is a Nazi country.

"Throughout this process, following the rejection of Christian [humanism], a rejection of secular humanism is now taking place. It is being replaced by transhumanism in various forms. Liberal globalism is rapidly becoming radicalized, installing radical leftist ideology in its countries and exporting Nazism (Ukraine is the most striking example)."
(В ходе этого процесса вслед за отказом от христианского происходит отказ уже и от светского гуманизма, замена его трансгуманизмом в самых разных формах. Либеральный глобализм стремительно радикализируется, инсталлируя в своих странах радикальную леволиберальную идеологию (BLM) и поставляя на экспорт нацизм (Украина — ярчайший тому пример).)

Further, here there is an article on patriarchia.ru that says that the traditional religions of Russia are united in saying "no" to Nazism. While saying "no" to Nazism is undoubtedly good, this provides more atmosphere of support for the false claim that Ukraine is a Nazi country that planned to destroy Russia.

yeesh, that’s pretty nuts. even if Ukraine has far-right groups (and they do), that’s not anywhere near the same as saying they are exporting Nazism (whatever that means).

 

[archer75]

yeesh, that’s pretty nuts. even if Ukraine has far-right groups (and they do), that’s not anywhere near the same as saying they are exporting Nazism (whatever that means).

We also have far-right groups in the US. And that's not the same as saying that our country needs to lose its sovereignty and its language and be absorbed into a foreign power over the course of a generation, and that the very idea of being a US citizen needs to be erased.

 

[archer75]

I will only say that it is some consolation that these people apparently dislike Nazis, don't wish to be associated with them, and believe they still exist somewhere.

The whole thing is beyond insane. They have repurposed "Nazi" to mean "anyone the regime doesn't like." While actually behaving as Nazis themselves. They are playing very close to Hitler's playbook.

 

[ArmyMatt]

We also have far-right groups in the US. And that's not the same as saying that our country needs to lose its sovereignty and its language and be absorbed into a foreign power over the course of a generation, and that the very idea of being a US citizen needs to be erased.

indeed.

 

[archer75]

indeed.

Link to English translation of the article in the OP.

What should Russia do with Ukraine? [Translation of a propaganda article by a Russian journalist]

 

[Chesterton]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but although this may have been posted on a State website, the fellow who wrote the article is a private citizen, and not a politician or policymaker? And the English translation notes it was translated by Ukrainian volunteers. I don't know Russian, perhaps someone else here could speak about its accuracy?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Link to English translation of the article in the OP.

What should Russia do with Ukraine? [Translation of a propaganda article by a Russian journalist]

yeesh

 

[Platina]

As much as its propaganda to paint all Ukrainians as nazis, it's also propaganda to claim that this article is "what real #Russia wants."

Unfortunately, in such terrible situations, emotions run high and no one attempts objectivity.

 

[ArmyMatt]

As much as its propaganda to paint all Ukrainians as nazis, it's also propaganda to claim that this article is "what real #Russia wants."

Unfortunately, in such terrible situations, emotions run high and no one attempts objectivity.

also a good point. a lot of UOC-MP bishops have come out against this, which would seem to indicate a lot of the Russian flock wouldn’t be for what is happening.

 

[archer75]

As much as its propaganda to paint all Ukrainians as nazis, it's also propaganda to claim that this article is "what real #Russia wants."

Unfortunately, in such terrible situations, emotions run high and no one attempts objectivity.

That is true, the translator has added her interpretation there.

 

[archer75]

also a good point. a lot of UOC-MP bishops have come out against this, which would seem to indicate a lot of the Russian flock wouldn’t be for what is happening.

I'm sure none of the people, Orthodox or not, on the ground are for their towns being destroyed and civilians bound, murdered, and burned.

But the point of my posts is not to blame the Russian flock, but to say what the Russian state is pushing and that the church is quietly pushing the false thinking that supports that line.

 

[gzt]

Yes, imagine the US government being held to account for the excesses of rhetoric by op ed writers at the height of, say, the Iraq War fervor. The actual facts were bad enough, as they are here, without trying to nail them for that kind of exaggeration.

 

[archer75]

Yes, imagine the US government being held to account for the excesses of rhetoric by op ed writers at the height of, say, the Iraq War fervor. The actual facts were bad enough, as they are here, without trying to nail them for that kind of exaggeration.

I didn't follow.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I'm sure none of the people, Orthodox or not, on the ground are for their towns being destroyed and civilians bound, murdered, and burned.

But the point of my posts is not to blame the Russian flock, but to say what the Russian state is pushing and that the church is quietly pushing the false thinking that supports that line.

oh sure, I was just posting since there are some who want to demonize all of Russia.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

The entire war is utterly appalling and I think Russia will suffer for this invasion for decades to come. Serbia is STILL shaking off the dust of the 1990's. The reputation of Russia politically, their sports programs, trade, military, economy, everything is going to suffer. And in the end, Putin played right into NATO's hands.

I completely understand Russia NOT wanting NATO in its backyard 100%. We have the Monroe Doctrine, yet we only apply it to ourselves. We don't want anyone in our dominion of the Western Hemisphere and North, Central, South America are OUR dominion. Stay out! That has been our position for centuries. And when the Soviets parked some missiles in Cuba, we almost had an apocalypse. What Ukraine being a NATO member would mean for Russia would be nothing short of a third world war in Russia's eyes. And I cannot blame them.

I'm sad that the West played a part in the buildup of this war. Back in 2014 Lindsey Graham and that snake John McCain were in Ukraine talking up eventual conflict with Russia and the seeds were being sown. Mike Pompeo was in Turkey meeting with the EP trying to create a Ukrainian Orthodox Autocephaly that surely the U.S. knew would draw the ire of the Russians and heighten conflict. For years we've known the Russians in Donbas were harassed, murdered, and made second class citizens. We also know there IS a Nazi problem in Ukraine and Nazi movements have grown a great deal. Bio labs, corrupt energy deals, all sorts of problems in Ukraine for a couple of decades now. The problem has been brewing, and we knew better than to poke the Russian bear.

That all being said, Russia's prosecution of this war has been horrendous. At least, that's what the news seems to indicate. How much of the news can we trust is legit? Heck if I know. If you listen to the news and media in general, it seems like Russian conscripts are dying faster than people living in south side Chicago, vehicles are being abandoned en masse, Russian troops are killing their own commanders, civilians are being massacred, the Ukraine is being turned into a pile of rebar and rubble, and Russia is actually bringing NATO closer together as an alliance with a common disgust for war crimes.

Now, this COULD all be true, or it could be spin. We all saw mass body counts, awful mass graves, and carnage in Bosnia, etc. in the 1990's and it turned out to be out of context often times, exaggerated, and blame assigned to only one side. Milosovic was reviled as Hitler 2. Later, he was exonerated, only after he was dead from stress. I'm worried that the massacres could very well be true, but part of me wants to reserve judgment until audits are conducted of this nightmare.

There are nazis in Ukraine, plenty of them, but the sheer scope of the claims the Russians are hurling out there make it sound like each and every home is the Third Reich. Not buying it.

Scary to think of what could come from this war.....