Question for Catholics Regarding Mary

[Fidei]

I said I would respond with questions, but all the questions I had were mostly answered in the first few pages. Thanks again to all who responded. I got a tip that I should post these types of Qs in the individual congregational sub-forums, and I think I will do so in the future, so as to not be the cause of a flame war.

-- Fidei

 

[Iollain]

Fedei,
the truth matters. just remember if you go there you'll not be able to see what others think of things

 

[Oblio]

OTOH you will be able to discuss things about another faith without being distracted by strawmen and to find out what others actually believe (or would have you believe, because they do not believe) rather than what the opponents of others believe about what the others believe.

 

[WarriorAngel]

OTOH you will be able to discuss things about another faith without being distracted by strawmen and to find out what others actually believe (or would have you believe, because they do not believe) rather than what the opponents of others believe about what the others believe.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I said I would respond with questions, but all the questions I had were mostly answered in the first few pages. Thanks again to all who responded. I got a tip that I should post these types of Qs in the individual congregational sub-forums, and I think I will do so in the future, so as to not be the cause of a flame war.

-- Fidei

If you want the accurate or sufficient information behind a Catholic or otherwise Apostolic religion, you should always go their forum to ask.

In here you will have so many different ideas about what Catholics or otherwise believe, you have to cut through the ideas of others who obviously do not believe in the first place, or they would not be contesting it.

Did that sound right?

 

[Sunrunner]

I have a question: What exactly is Immaculate Conception?

 

[thereselittleflower]

What Gospel is this? Not the one the Apostles had.

Revelation 22:2

KJV:
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations​

This follows verse 1 which is a depiction of the Trinity . . .

verse two is about Mary, who bore Jesus, the fruit of her womb . . .


"Tree of Life" is an ancient title of the Early Church for Mary . . . .


Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

(never mind. . I figured it out! )

 

[thereselittleflower]

I have a question: What exactly is Immaculate Conception?

In a nut shell, the Immaculate Conception is an ancient doctrine of the Church that Mary, by a unique salvific act of God, was conceived free from any stain of original sin, which means that the wounded human nature we all receive which is pre-disposed to sin due to the fall of Adam and Eve, was healed at the momment of Mary's conception.

There are many reasons why the Early Church understood this was necessary, a primary one being that Jesus received His human nature from Mary naturally, and that in order to receive an unwounded human nature so He would not need to be saved Himself, her human nature needed to be unwounded, as Eve's was when Eve was created before the fall.

God "saved" Mary at the momment of her conception so she could bring into the world the Messiah, the New Adam, free from any stain of the fall just as Adam was before the fall.

Her salvation is because of Christ's atoning death on the cross, and even though her salvation came first in the sequence of time when we conceive of it flowing in a straight line, God is not limited by time.



Peace

 

[Iollain]

OTOH you will be able to discuss things about another faith without being distracted by strawmen and to find out what others actually believe (or would have you believe, because they do not believe) rather than what the opponents of others believe about what the others believe.

...yeah, unless your talking to a bunch that does not even know what it is their church teaches about the subject.

 

[Iollain]

In a nut shell, the Immaculate Conception is an ancient doctrine of the Church that Mary, by a unique salvific act of God, was conceived free from any stain of original sin, which means that the wounded human nature we all receive which is pre-disposed to sin due to the fall of Adam and Eve, was healed at the momment of Mary's conception.

There are many reasons why the Early Church understood this was necessary, a primary one being that Jesus received His human nature from Mary naturally, and that in order to receive an unwounded human nature so He would not need to be saved Himself, her human nature needed to be unwounded, as Eve's was when Eve was created before the fall.

God "saved" Mary at the momment of her conception so she could bring into the world the Messiah, the New Adam, free from any stain of the fall just as Adam was before the fall.

Her salvation is because of Christ's atoning death on the cross, and even though her salvation came first in the sequence of time when we conceive of it flowing in a straight line, God is not limited by time.



Peace

Yes, God is right into cheating like that

 

[thereselittleflower]

I have yet to see it anywhere in the Bible that works lead to salvation.

Can you be saved if you are not justified?

No . .



James says (in ch 2):

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?​

That was a rhetorical question the answer to which is obviously 'no'.

So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.​

Like a dead corpse, no life, cannot do anything for us . . iti s not a saving faith at all. . .



And to those who believe that all one needs is faith to be saved, James has some very harsh word and uncompromising words:

Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?​

After providing an example, he goes on:

You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.​

See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. ​

And here is that corpse thing again:

For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.​

So, faith alone is nothing but a dead corpse, a dead body . . .

James likened faith to the body and works to the spirit. Backwards from how most who believe in 'faith alone' would see it . .

I can quote you 7 times in the NT where Christ says " your faith has saved you". I have yet to see much about works. I'm born again, good works come natural.

And if those 7 times are divorced from Jame's words above, then a doctrine derived from them will be distorted, and imcomplete.

If good works come natural to believers, and they don't need to be concerned about them, then why did James have to admonish believers to not do what you are doing? Relying on faith alone?

Jesus himself has said " love each other as I have loved you".

Yes, and?

Can't talk to dead people.

Then why was Jesus able to talk to Moses and Elijah?



Peace

 

[Iollain]

Jesus was able to talk to Moses and Elijah because because they were right there in the front of Him.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Jesus was able to talk to Moses and Elijah because because they were right there in the front of Him.

And?

Moses was dead, right?

Moses and Elijah appeared to the Disciples too, right?

So, as this demonstrates, it is very evident that the dead ARE able to appear to the living!



Peace

 

[Iollain]

That is great but that does not mean we can pray at them and they will hear us.

 

[SunMessenger]

Our Beloved Holy Mothers Message Is One Of Forgiveness. She Is Wonderful...


Praise God ! I Love Her !

 

[lionroar0]

That is great but that does not mean we can pray at them and they will hear us.

We can and they do hear us because they are alive in Christ.

Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

That is great but that does not mean we can pray at them and they will hear us.

Why not?

There is nothing here that even suggests that we can't pray to the saints in heaven or that they won't hear us.

In fact, this suggests just the opposite.

If they can appear to us, then why can't they hear us?

We are surrounded by a Great Cloud of Witnesses from Abel on forward, just as Paul exclaims.

Why can't they hear us?


Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

Yes, God is right into cheating like that

That's a very ignorant statement.



Peace

 

[stumpjumper]

MOD HAT ON

Thread closed permanently.

Let's end it with a word of charity:

[bible]1 Corinthians 13:12-13[/bible]