Praying in tongues is part of Biblical Christianity

[Gregory Thompson]

I accept the authority of Scripture. Also, please take notice of my request for positive testimonies and refraining from pointless arguing over denomination labels and diverse theologies.

Feel free to re-read your previous posts and take your own advice.

 

[YahuahSaves]

You are putting words into my mouth

Am I? What are you doing in the next 2 quotes? You've been contradicting your own statements this entire thread.

It occurs to me that a 14 year old boy had more faith to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues than you have...just sayin'...

What you are really saying is that you don't want the gift of tongues because it isn't for you.

The Scripture says not to quench the Spirit.

I accept the authority of Scripture

Then if you accept the authority of scripture, read it in the context you say you do and stop claiming people need the gift of tongues to prove baptism by the Spirit.

11 It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have.

That scripture^ proves its not up to us what gifts we receive, but up to the Holy Spirit.

John 3:5

5 Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.[a]

That scripture^ describes being born-again, which happens when we are baptised by the Spirit and not before.

It is explaining to Nicodemus the need to be born again. It has nothing to do with the baptism with the Spirit

Prove it by scripture^

Having asked and received through prayer, then the person has to use his faith to start trying to speak the language.

Any gift God gives comes naturally and is not forced.

We were born again by the work of the Spirit in us. This is not the same as the Holy Spirit coming upon us as an enduement of power.

This is where you start contradicting yourself^

Therefore, the work of the Holy Spirit in a person to get them born again is separate from the enduement of the Holy Spirit coming upon the person as power from on high. The Bible doesn't contradict itself.

But you do.

One needs more than just our own language to be able to wrestle and travail in fervent and effectual prayer.

This is where you start making assumptions about effectual prayer^ as if praying to God doesn't work properly without the gift of tongues. you're wrong.

Well, every person that I have assisted over the last 50 years to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit have flowed out in tongues

You mention baptism again^ and yet another assumption the proof of it is in receiving the gift of tongues.

It certainly was a sign to me that they had genuinely received the baptism

A sign to you^ as if this confirms what you've been saying. (No scripture to back it up though)

Also accept that you can now speak in tongues to allow the Spirit to flow out of you.

Another assumption^ that other people lack faith if they don't speak in tongues.

You're suggesting God doesn't intercede or answer prayer without the use of tongues which is wrong. tell me where this view of yours is supported by scripture

You still haven't shown me^ the scripture that supports your view.

What I said was to show the power of the gift of tongues in intercession

What you said is clear. As far as you're concerned, the gift of tongues is for those who desire it, that it's not up to the Holy Spirit to decide and distribute gifts as he sees fit, that those than don't have it are not baptised (born-again) by the Spirit and simply "lack faith". And you also said prayer wasn't truly effective without the gift of tongues. It's completely false.

Perhaps read 1 Corinthians 14:1-25 in its entirety. Here's an excerpt.

10 There are many different languages in the world, and every language has meaning. 11 But if I don’t understand a language, I will be a foreigner to someone who speaks it, and the one who speaks it will be a foreigner to me. 12 And the same is true for you. Since you are so eager to have the special abilities the Spirit gives, seek those that will strengthen the whole church.

13 So anyone who speaks in tongues should pray also for the ability to interpret what has been said. 14 For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don’t understand what I am saying.

15 Well then, what shall I do? I will pray in the spirit,[a] and I will also pray in words I understand. I will sing in the spirit, and I will also sing in words I understand.

20 Dear brothers and sisters, don’t be childish in your understanding of these things. Be innocent as babies when it comes to evil, but be mature in understanding matters of this kind. 21 It is written in the Scriptures[a]:

“I will speak to my own people
through strange languages
and through the lips of foreigners.
But even then, they will not listen to me,”
says the Lord.

22 So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

One of the things Jesus teaches about prayer is it is for the benefit of those listening. (John 11:41-42), this ties well into Paul's discourse (1 Corinthians 14) on the spiritual gifts, that to edify is the point.

When we pray, we pray with our spirit, but also with our understanding.

When we sing, we sing with our spirit, but also with our understanding.

The proposal to speak in tongues only, without understanding .. is missing the point, and the possible edification that we stand to gain as a body of Christ.

 

[BNR32FAN]

James says if you have not it is because you ask not. If you are not assured that the gift of tongues is for you, then you will not have the faith to receive it. It is not God's fault that you have not received the promised power from on high accompanied by the gifts of the Spirit. The buck stops with you because it is according to your own faith. Just because the other believers in your circle have not received the baptism with the Spirit, it doesn't mean that you don't receive if you come to the place where you believe it is God's will for you. In actual fact being filled with the Spirit is God's will for you, because the Scripture instructs us to be filled with the Spirit, speaking to the Lord in psalms and spiritual songs, making melody in your heart to the Lord.

Paul specifically said that not all believers will receive the gift of tongues, it is God who decides who will receive whatever gifts He chooses, not us.

“Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12‬:‭4‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

James says if you have not it is because you ask not. If you are not assured that the gift of tongues is for you, then you will not have the faith to receive it. It is not God's fault that you have not received the promised power from on high accompanied by the gifts of the Spirit. The buck stops with you because it is according to your own faith. Just because the other believers in your circle have not received the baptism with the Spirit, it doesn't mean that you don't receive if you come to the place where you believe it is God's will for you. In actual fact being filled with the Spirit is God's will for you, because the Scripture instructs us to be filled with the Spirit, speaking to the Lord in psalms and spiritual songs, making melody in your heart to the Lord.

Where exactly does James say this?

 

[BNR32FAN]

In a previous post on this thread I have given a set of Scriptural steps to receiving the baptism with the Spirit and the gift of tongues. Just praying for it to come is not enough. You have to be totally assured that it is God's will for you to receive it. Unless you are assured, you may be asking amiss. Maybe the best way of approaching it is to ask the Lord to show you His will through the Scriptures pertaining to the baptism with the Spirit, enduement of power from on high, and being filled with the Spirit. Then once you know God's will and how it is a necessary part of your Christian life, worship and service, then your asking will be more focused. Then you will have the faith to tell the Lord that you receive it. Then you can know that you are baptised with the Spirit because when you ask for something that is God's will for you, you will receive it. That is what the Bible says whether you feel different or not. Then you will know that you will have the ability to pray in tongues. All you need is to step out in faith and start to speak, and the Spirit will flow out in a language you have never learned.

Did you know that when Israel crossed into Canaan through the Jordan river, the waters parted only when the priests leading the column actually stepped into the river? They didn't stand on the bank waiting for the waters to part. They used their faith in God to make the first step and then the waters parted. It was the same with Elijah and Elisha when the waters of the river parted for them. It happened when they stepped into the river. You can ask for the baptism with the Spirit until the cows come home but it won't happen until you take the Scriptural steps of faith. As you step out in faith, God will honour it and He will make sure that the flow of the Spirit will come out of you in a new language you have never learned.

I don’t recall anyone asking to receive the gift of tongues in the scriptures, they just received it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

We were born again by the work of the Spirit in us. This is not the same as the Holy Spirit coming upon us as an enduement of power. Before He was ascended, Jesus breathed on each of the disciples, saying, "Receive the Holy Spirit". This was not the enduement of power, the baptism with the Spirit. It was when the disciples were born again. Straight after that, Jesus told them to wait in Jerusalem until they received the power from on high. It was then on the Day of Pentecost that the Holy Spirit came upon them and gave them the power for service. Therefore, the work of the Holy Spirit in a person to get them born again is separate from the enduement of the Holy Spirit coming upon the person as power from on high. The Bible doesn't contradict itself. If the baptism with the Spirit was the born again experience, then the disciples would have been baptised with the Spirit when Jesus breathed into them. But Jesus quite clearly stated that the baptism with the Spirit was for a later time, and they were to wait in Jerusalem for it. The fact that the Samaritans were born again when the received Christ and still needed the baptism with the Spirit under Peter and John, and the 12 disciples at Ephesus already saved before they were baptised with the Spirit, shows that your Scripture verse does not refer to the baptism with the Spirit. You can't take one verse out of context to try and mean something that it doesn't, contradicting other Scripture references that show otherwise. That's called twisting God's Word to suit your own premise.

Being born again only happens by the indwelling Spirit. Being born again is not simply believing in Christ, it’s becoming a new creation in Christ which can only happen by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Being born again and becoming a new creation are the same thing, it’s when our heart’s desire changes from seeking our own desires to seeking God’s desires. When we no longer desire to do the things we previously did but instead we desire to do what pleases God. This transformation only happens thru the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

“For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, “This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws upon their heart, And on their mind I will write them,” He then says, “And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.””
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10‬:‭14‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

It seems that you have not received the baptism with the Spirit and the gift of tongues. Perhaps you are waiting for the Holy Spirit to do it for you instead of obeying the Scriptures concerning asking and receiving and stepping out in faith. Perhaps the teaching you have received prevents you from having the faith to receive it. You can go on convincing yourself if you wish. That is your right. But you cannot convince me. I have seen too many receiving the genuine baptism with the Spirit and gift of tongues through the Scriptural steps I have shown them.

So what your basically saying is that those who have not received the gift of tongues have not received the indwelling Spirit and are not born again. Sounds like boasting to me.

 

[BNR32FAN]

As I said to my brother in my previous post. When I have assisted people through to the baptism with the Spirit, I have seen many receive it through the Scriptural steps that are there to receive anything from the Lord. I treat the baptism with the Spirit as a subsequent event after one is born again, and the Lord has honoured what I have done. I have seen people speak in the most beautiful languages when they have stepped out in faith. Here are the steps:
1. You must be assured that it is God's will for you.
2. You need to ask God for it in accordance with Philippians 4:6,7).
3. You need to tell the Lord that you receive it (If you ask for anything in God's will you will receive it).
4. You need to step out in faith and speak in the language you have never learned.

I have seen time after time when I have taken someone through those steps, the person has made the attempt to speak, and immediately the expressive and articulate language has flowed out of them. Actual experience wins over an argument every time. And you will see that I have used sound Scriptural steps in the process and have made it quite clear that Jesus is the baptiser with the Spirit. This is not teaching people to speak in tongues. This is setting up their faith to receive it from the Lord.

Speaking in tongues and the other gifts of the Spirit are not mentioned in the entire chapter of Philippians 4. As I pointed out Paul specifically stated that not everyone will receive the gift of tongues in 1 Corinthians 12 and that it is God who decides who will receive whatever gift He chooses to bestow upon them. Furthermore Paul simply says to make our requests known to God, he never gave any guarantee that they will be granted.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's what you have been doing with this entire thread! Telling people they need to speak in tongues is a sign of the baptism of the Spirit is wrong.

Amen, Paul specifically said in 1 Corinthians 12 that not all believers receive the same gifts of the Spirit. The same Spirit may give different gifts to different people which is proof that not everyone who has received the indwelling Holy Spirit will speak in tongues.

“Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12‬:‭4‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Amen, Paul specifically said in 1 Corinthians 12 that not all believers receive the same gifts of the Spirit. The same Spirit may give different gifts to different people which is proof that not everyone who has received the indwelling Holy Spirit will speak in tongues.

“Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12‬:‭4‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Read the forum statement of purpose. Also respect my request not to debate, but for those who have received the gift of tongues to share their positive experiences in order to encourage genuine seekers after the gift to have the confidence to ask and receive it from the Lord.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Read the forum statement of purpose. Also respect my request not to debate, but for those who have received the gift of tongues to share their positive experiences in order to encourage genuine seekers after the gift to have the confidence to ask and receive it from the Lord.

If you don’t want to debate that fine I just thought you might want to defend your position pertaining to this passage of scripture because your contradicting Paul’s words here. It appears to me that you’ve encountered a brick wall that you can’t get around so now you want to pretend it doesn’t exist. Just remember that in order for our theology to be orthodox it must line up with all scripture not just bits & pieces. You’ve been doing a lot of debating in this thread up until now.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Read the forum statement of purpose. Also respect my request not to debate, but for those who have received the gift of tongues to share their positive experiences in order to encourage genuine seekers after the gift to have the confidence to ask and receive it from the Lord.

I don’t consider saying that people who don’t speak in tongues aren’t filled with the Holy Spirit to be encouraging. On the contrary it’s quite rude and discourteous to claim that another believer is not filled with the Spirit just because they haven’t received the same gift you have, especially since as I’ve pointed out that Paul specifically stated that not all who have received the indwelling Spirit will receive the same gifts in 1 Corinthians 12.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread is closed at the request of the OP.


As a reminder, folks, the Statement of Purpose for this forum includes:

​

Any discussions about the sign gifts of the Spirit, Scripture, and Christian theology should be done in a spirit of love and humility, exhibiting mutual respect and grace towards one another, with the goal of increasing spiritual insight and knowledge with the Holy Spirit's guidance. Discussions should not turn into a heated debate. Members who participate in this forum are not here to win an argument or prove a point, they are here to learn from one another and grow spiritually. We would like this forum to remain a safe place where Christian members from all denominations can discuss and learn more about the spiritual gifts.​

​

​

​