Praying in tongues is part of Biblical Christianity

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OK I get what you're saying now. Private prayer is private prayer though. When a person suddenly starts babbling during prayer in front of others and throws a couple of "praise" and "el shaddai's" in there, I'm sorry but I find it suspicious. And often with these types of people you get a fakery vibe. And you're right, there's to many of these mega churches and false teachings. I still don't agree that everyone receives tongues or the gift of prophecy and I personally think it's up to God to distribute gifts according to HIS plan and purpose.
I believe that God gives the baptism with the Spirit and the gift of tongues to all who ask for it. Jesus said, "If an evil man knows how to give good gifts to his children how much more does God give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him? If anyone who believes that the gift of tongues is God's will for him, and follows the Scriptural steps I have already set out in one of these threads about tongues, he will receive it. James says that people don't receive because they don't ask. And if they do ask, they have the mistaken idea that the Holy Spirit will take control of them and force the tongues to happen; but that is against the principle of faith. Having asked and received through prayer, then the person has to use his faith to start trying to speak the language. Then the language will start flowing out of him as the Holy Spirit honours that person's faith.
 
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YahuahSaves

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You are using the verse out of context. It is explaining to Nicodemus the need to be born again. It has nothing to do with the baptism with the Spirit and the gifts.
No I'm not. You said:

There are no actual Scriptures that clearly say that the baptism with the Spirit is essential to salvation.
And I said explain the scripture.
 
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YahuahSaves

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then the person has to use his faith to start trying to speak the language. Then the language will start flowing out of him as the Holy Spirit honours that person's faith.
Not Scriptural ^
11 It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I subscribe to AOG theology which states that the baptism with the Spirit is subsequent to being born again, and tongues is the initial evidence. There are no actual Scriptures that clearly say that the baptism with the Spirit is essential to salvation. The Samaritans were saved under Philip's preaching, but it needed Peter and John to come and lay hands on them for them to receive the baptism with the Spirit. The 12 Ephesian disciples were saved and when Paul asked them if they had received the Holy Spirit since they were saved, they didn't know that there was a Holy Spirit. When Paul laid hands on them, they received the baptism with the Spirit and spoke in tongues. These two events show clearly that according to the Scripture record the baptism with the Spirit along with tongues is not essential for salvation. There are Charismatic teachings that are made up, ignoring definite Scripture, and that view of the baptism with the Spirit being essential to salvation is one of them. That is why I am Pentecostal and not Charismatic.
Sounds like a custom made basket, AOG theology is all over the map depending on who you ask.
 
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BNR32FAN

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In recent years there has been an explosion of false teaching and false "experiences" that purport to be the baptism with the Spirit and praying in tongues. Criticism using terms like "Charismania" has muddied the waters and created so much doubt, fear and suspicion that many genuine seekers after the baptism with the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit have been spooked and driven away from seeking what they fear could be a demonic counterfeit. The truth is that to receive the genuine baptism with the Spirit, one has to be born again. Most of the "Charismania" crowd are not born again, because in most of their churches and gatherings the Gospel of Christ is never taught. These people don't have a clear view of Jesus bleeding and dying on the Cross for their sins, and have no idea that they need repentance from sin and to show the fruit of it. These people do not represent what being baptised with the Spirit actually is.

To be truly baptised with the Spirit, one has to be born again and showing the fruit of repentance. The Holy Spirit will not fill an unclean vessel that has not received the righteousness of Christ. Being religious, talking the talk, and joining a church is not the same as being born again. True conversion to Christ is a personal transaction between the person and Jesus Christ, and it is from the heart. Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart.

The baptism with the Spirit is not just "Pentecostal" or "Charismatic". These are just man's labels attached to it. The truth is that it is Biblical Christianity. It is God's idea about how a believer is empowered for service. Tongues is God's way of enhancing a believer's prayer life, to give an extra dimension in prayer, the ability to pray with the Spirit as well as the understanding. If a person says they are filled with the Spirit but does not demonstrate the power of the Spirit in ministry, such as getting people saved, doing powerful intercessory prayer, casting out demons, healing the sick, as is demonstrated in the Book of Acts, then the person is fooling himself and just pretending. He may make a lot of noise in hallelujah hootenanny meetings. but it is just all the steam going out the whistle.

A person who is truly baptised with the Spirit is fully involved in glorifying Jesus, presenting the true Gospel, showing God's compassion toward the sick and suffering. If all the person is doing is jumping around babbling in gibberish in emotionally charged meetings, all they are doing is performing a display in the flesh, and the Holy Spirit is far from them.

Many modern church goers have no idea who the Holy Spirit really is. This is because of incompetent teaching by those who have never experienced him in their lives, or are opposing it. There is a wealth of Scripture that supports the baptism with the Spirit and praying in tongues, but there are no Scriptures that clearly state that these were limited to the Apostolic period. Not one! Those who are using 1 Corinthians 13:10 to say that prophecy and tongues have ceased at the completion of the canon of Scripture are hanging their hats on the nail of a part of a verse out of context. They have made up their opposition out of their own imagination and have scraped the bottom of the barrel to provide some sort of proof text to support their ridiculous false teaching.

If we are to present Jesus to the unconverted, we need the baptism with the Spirit to provide the power and the demonstration of the Spirit instead of just the wisdom of man. If we are to have effective, Biblical prayer lives, we need to pray in the Spirit as well as from out limited understanding.

The Scripture says not to quench the Spirit, nor to forbid praying in tongues, and not to despise prophecy. We are to test all things and hold fast to that which is good.
Most Christians I know, including myself have not experienced prayers or speaking in tongues. Not everyone receives those gifts.
 
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Blade

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"To be truly baptised with the Spirit, one has to be born again and showing the fruit of repentance. The Holy Spirit will not fill an unclean vessel that has not received the righteousness of Christ. Being religious, talking the talk, and joining a church is not the same as being born again. True conversion to Christ is a personal transaction between the person and Jesus Christ, and it is from the heart. Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart." "A person who is truly baptised with the Spirit is fully involved in glorifying Jesus, presenting the true Gospel, showing God's compassion toward the sick and suffering. If all the person is doing is jumping around babbling in gibberish in emotionally charged meetings, all they are doing is performing a display in the flesh, and the Holy Spirit is far from them."

Hey Watchman1.. your making some statements that are no where in the word of God. The gift of the sweet sweet holy Spirit is only for the believer period. See what is written? How much more with your heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to theme that ask. That's it no more no less. Any believer that asks will receive the sweet sweet holy Spirit. Not one can receive another spirit or all this is worthless for He can not lie. If we make a statement as in "has to be" then back that up with the word. There is no scripture for "showing the fruit of repentance". So which is it? Well on hand you said they must be showing fruits of repentance yet you also said man looks on the outward appearance but God looks at the heart (Samuel).

What is this "jumping around babbling in gibberish in emotionally" Again God can not lie those believers that are doing that are filled with the holy spirit. There are times to be still and what not abut there are other moments to jump shout praise Him in tongues singing in tongues... Oh yes praise God glory glory glory to Jesus. No matter how "emotionally I get I am still filled with the sweet sweet holy Spirit and I can not ever babble in gibberish. Where you think theses ideas come from? Heaven. Yeah angels jump shout dance. HAHA what are the odds right now this second the words to the song say this "when the spirit of the lord moves in my heart I will dance like David danced". HAHA PRAISE GOD.. I type dance then those words on the song came out.

Anyway they asked some have you received the holy spirit since you believed. That's how it works. Since you believed. Its for ALL believers. He does it not us. Not they way we think it should be. When I was I don't know 14 or so was at my best friends house and his little sister comes running in telling her mom how she and her friend were baptized in a Catholic Church and her friend came out speaking in tongues. That was it.. He did it His way we get no say here. pffft any one that believes in Jesus Christ are righteous and holy. There is no "fruits prove" your righteous. He already died for the sin of this world He can not die again. There is no sin in our life that keeps us from Him. Its what He did not us. The Father right now sees us holy and righteous aka righteousness. That comes not by anything we can do but be just believing in Jesus Christ. This flesh has not been changed. So there will be fruit which comes from the vine not by anything we do. I am saying being filled with the holy spirit is not based on if you show fruits or not. Its not based on how good I am or any work I do. Those will happen because of Christ in me. Anyway..

To anyone that does not know. Read Luke 11:13 and yeah just do what He said. He will the Father keep His word. You ask you got it your filled. We walk by Faith. Its that simple
 
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Gregory Thompson

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everyone can speak in a kind of tongues, but the biblical tongues that needs an inspired translator is different. Thus "trying to speak the language" will not result in the latter, but the former.
 
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No I'm not. You said:


And I said explain the scripture.
We were born again by the work of the Spirit in us. This is not the same as the Holy Spirit coming upon us as an enduement of power. Before He was ascended, Jesus breathed on each of the disciples, saying, "Receive the Holy Spirit". This was not the enduement of power, the baptism with the Spirit. It was when the disciples were born again. Straight after that, Jesus told them to wait in Jerusalem until they received the power from on high. It was then on the Day of Pentecost that the Holy Spirit came upon them and gave them the power for service. Therefore, the work of the Holy Spirit in a person to get them born again is separate from the enduement of the Holy Spirit coming upon the person as power from on high. The Bible doesn't contradict itself. If the baptism with the Spirit was the born again experience, then the disciples would have been baptised with the Spirit when Jesus breathed into them. But Jesus quite clearly stated that the baptism with the Spirit was for a later time, and they were to wait in Jerusalem for it. The fact that the Samaritans were born again when the received Christ and still needed the baptism with the Spirit under Peter and John, and the 12 disciples at Ephesus already saved before they were baptised with the Spirit, shows that your Scripture verse does not refer to the baptism with the Spirit. You can't take one verse out of context to try and mean something that it doesn't, contradicting other Scripture references that show otherwise. That's called twisting God's Word to suit your own premise.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Basing theology on the book of acts is not much more successful than basing theology on the book of romans. Teachings on a subject are throughout the biblical text, and need to be referred to in full context.
 
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Not Scriptural ^
It seems that you have not received the baptism with the Spirit and the gift of tongues. Perhaps you are waiting for the Holy Spirit to do it for you instead of obeying the Scriptures concerning asking and receiving and stepping out in faith. Perhaps the teaching you have received prevents you from having the faith to receive it. You can go on convincing yourself if you wish. That is your right. But you cannot convince me. I have seen too many receiving the genuine baptism with the Spirit and gift of tongues through the Scriptural steps I have shown them.
 
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Isilwen

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everyone can speak in a kind of tongues, but the biblical tongues that needs an inspired translator is different. Thus "trying to speak the language" will not result in the latter, but the former.

I do not think so. I have never spoken or prayed in any other tongue but my own. Not for a lack of trying either. Prayed for it to come and nothing. I do not believe that all will speak/pray in tongues.
 
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Sounds like a custom made basket, AOG theology is all over the map depending on who you ask.
As I said to my brother in my previous post. When I have assisted people through to the baptism with the Spirit, I have seen many receive it through the Scriptural steps that are there to receive anything from the Lord. I treat the baptism with the Spirit as a subsequent event after one is born again, and the Lord has honoured what I have done. I have seen people speak in the most beautiful languages when they have stepped out in faith. Here are the steps:
1. You must be assured that it is God's will for you.
2. You need to ask God for it in accordance with Philippians 4:6,7).
3. You need to tell the Lord that you receive it (If you ask for anything in God's will you will receive it).
4. You need to step out in faith and speak in the language you have never learned.

I have seen time after time when I have taken someone through those steps, the person has made the attempt to speak, and immediately the expressive and articulate language has flowed out of them. Actual experience wins over an argument every time. And you will see that I have used sound Scriptural steps in the process and have made it quite clear that Jesus is the baptiser with the Spirit. This is not teaching people to speak in tongues. This is setting up their faith to receive it from the Lord.
 
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Most Christians I know, including myself have not experienced prayers or speaking in tongues. Not everyone receives those gifts.
James says if you have not it is because you ask not. If you are not assured that the gift of tongues is for you, then you will not have the faith to receive it. It is not God's fault that you have not received the promised power from on high accompanied by the gifts of the Spirit. The buck stops with you because it is according to your own faith. Just because the other believers in your circle have not received the baptism with the Spirit, it doesn't mean that you don't receive if you come to the place where you believe it is God's will for you. In actual fact being filled with the Spirit is God's will for you, because the Scripture instructs us to be filled with the Spirit, speaking to the Lord in psalms and spiritual songs, making melody in your heart to the Lord.
 
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everyone can speak in a kind of tongues, but the biblical tongues that needs an inspired translator is different. Thus "trying to speak the language" will not result in the latter, but the former.
What I have observed in the ones I have taken through the Scriptural steps is that when they have started trying to say sounds and words in tongues, that at once they speak forth in a different language that they are not making up. It is as if the dam has broken and the river of living water is flowing out of them. This was the result of them stepping out in faith and trying to form words, then the Holy Spirit has taken over and the living water has started to flow.

It is true that anyone can speak a kind of tongues, but they know that they are making it up. They are speaking just from their mouth and not from their heart, because their heart is telling them, "I am just making this up." But when the flow of the Spirit comes from deep within them with a language they know they are not making up, then they know that they have genuine tongues, because it is not just them making up the words, but the Holy Spirit within them giving them the language to speak.
 
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Basing theology on the book of acts is not much more successful than basing theology on the book of romans. Teachings on a subject are throughout the biblical text, and need to be referred to in full context.
What I do when I am helping others to receive the baptism with the Spirit is not theology but it is Bible - the Bible way of receiving what God has for us. What quenches the Spirit in so many people is non-Biblical teaching on the basis of random, out-of-context verses dragged out to support the erroneous teaching.
 
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I do not think so. I have never spoken or prayed in any other tongue but my own. Not for a lack of trying either. Prayed for it to come and nothing. I do not believe that all will speak/pray in tongues.
In a previous post on this thread I have given a set of Scriptural steps to receiving the baptism with the Spirit and the gift of tongues. Just praying for it to come is not enough. You have to be totally assured that it is God's will for you to receive it. Unless you are assured, you may be asking amiss. Maybe the best way of approaching it is to ask the Lord to show you His will through the Scriptures pertaining to the baptism with the Spirit, enduement of power from on high, and being filled with the Spirit. Then once you know God's will and how it is a necessary part of your Christian life, worship and service, then your asking will be more focused. Then you will have the faith to tell the Lord that you receive it. Then you can know that you are baptised with the Spirit because when you ask for something that is God's will for you, you will receive it. That is what the Bible says whether you feel different or not. Then you will know that you will have the ability to pray in tongues. All you need is to step out in faith and start to speak, and the Spirit will flow out in a language you have never learned.

Did you know that when Israel crossed into Canaan through the Jordan river, the waters parted only when the priests leading the column actually stepped into the river? They didn't stand on the bank waiting for the waters to part. They used their faith in God to make the first step and then the waters parted. It was the same with Elijah and Elisha when the waters of the river parted for them. It happened when they stepped into the river. You can ask for the baptism with the Spirit until the cows come home but it won't happen until you take the Scriptural steps of faith. As you step out in faith, God will honour it and He will make sure that the flow of the Spirit will come out of you in a new language you have never learned.
 
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Isilwen

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In a previous post on this thread I have given a set of Scriptural steps to receiving the baptism with the Spirit and the gift of tongues. Just praying for it to come is not enough. You have to be totally assured that it is God's will for you to receive it. Unless you are assured, you may be asking amiss. Maybe the best way of approaching it is to ask the Lord to show you His will through the Scriptures pertaining to the baptism with the Spirit, enduement of power from on high, and being filled with the Spirit. Then once you know God's will and how it is a necessary part of your Christian life, worship and service, then your asking will be more focused. Then you will have the faith to tell the Lord that you receive it. Then you can know that you are baptised with the Spirit because when you ask for something that is God's will for you, you will receive it. That is what the Bible says whether you feel different or not. Then you will know that you will have the ability to pray in tongues. All you need is to step out in faith and start to speak, and the Spirit will flow out in a language you have never learned.

Exactly what I have done.

I still do not believe that all will pray/speak in tongues. I'm fine with not receiving it as that means the Spirit has something else for me. I can pray just fine in English and God hears me just fine.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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OK I get what you're saying now. Private prayer is private prayer though. When a person suddenly starts babbling during prayer in front of others and throws a couple of "praise" and "el shaddai's" in there, I'm sorry but I find it suspicious. And often with these types of people you get a fakery vibe. And you're right, there's to many of these mega churches and false teachings. I still don't agree that everyone receives tongues or the gift of prophecy and I personally think it's up to God to distribute gifts according to HIS plan and purpose.
I would be careful in making such an assumption. As a person who has exhibited some flaky behavior, which I now know was not the Holy Spirit. It is not so much that a person "IS" flaky rather, they are just trying too hard to be spiritual. They are normally people with low understanding, but high zeal. Placing a judgment on such people may case them more harm than good.

Over time I managed to get away from "flakiness" and become more sound in the operation of the Spiritual Gifts. I am sure there may still be some area I don't understand fully, but I am sure a lot more stable nowadays.
 
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Exactly what I have done.

I still do not believe that all will pray/speak in tongues. I'm fine with not receiving it as that means the Spirit has something else for me. I can pray just fine in English and God hears me just fine.
Blessings in Christ Jesus Isilwen. A few years ago I was reading about the gifts of tongues on these very boards. I was curious since I knew that The Lord through me, was using other spiritual gifts as He willed. It was Watchman1 teaching about this gift as He is doing today. Below is what I wrote down, and after I was praying I did.
1 Believe(faith) it is The Lord's will for me to have this gift.
2 Ask The Lord for this gift in prayer.
3. Thank The Lord for this gift(Faith).
4. Now go out and do something you have never done before.
So that night I went to my bedroom to pray and intercede for others.
As I was still on my knees I did 1-3 above.
As I walked out of the bedroom I opened my mouth and out flowed a language I had never spoke before.
It flowed like a river from my lips. There was no practicing, It was a complete language. Matter of fact this language to me seemed more
me than the English I normally speak. I also knew right away this gift was there all along. It just needed to be unwrapped by faith.
So be encouraged.
 
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