Orthodox View on Masturbation - Is it a Sin?

[Matthias]

See, if I ever commited this sin, it would be the hardest thing I'd ever have to admit to God in front of a priest. Especially if you did it a lot and you had to say how many times you did it...

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Of course we should warn overeaters, it's self indulgence seeking fullfillment in food, as in all worldly endulgences keeps us from the true fullfillment, which is the love of God in our hearts.
An overeater needs help as much as a masturbator, and i have struggled with this sin and would find it no use people not condemning it, people should help another who sins out of love, not looking down on them, but being a servant to them of Gods love.

I want my brother to rebuke me, i want to be warned of sin, i want to know sin to avoid it and be helped to overcome it.
I see an excuse for nearly every sin today, and even if it is recognized as sin, they then seems to be a sort of encouragement in it, by saying we love you as you are, forgetting the love of Christ was to free us from sin, He died for our sins, not for us to still be servants of them but free from the bondage they kept us in.
We still love another when they are sinners, for Christ died for us when we were yet sinners, but it wasn't for us to remain such, otherwise His death was in vain.
We also out of love for sinners and our brethren want them to overcome sin, this is love not some evil as the world calls it today.

Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Of course gluttony is a sin and dangerous to our souls. I never said otherwise. I was only warning about not judging people or becoming self-righteous (we become this way when we focus on everyone else's sins). I don't want to highjack this thread, but I wonder what you think of this: A couple weeks ago I visited another Orthodox parish and the priest there had to way at least 500 lbs. or more. Seriously. Would it have been my place, or anyone else's, to take him aside and tell him how sinful he is for gluttony? I certainly don't think so. I have enough of my own sins to worry about!

That aside, I did edit one of my previous posts on this thread. I don't want people to think that any sin should be taken lightly, and I'm sorry if my post came off that way.

 

[Lay down all]

Of course gluttony is a sin and dangerous to our souls. I never said otherwise. I was only warning about not judging people or becoming self-righteous (we become this way when we focus on everyone else's sins). I don't want to highjack this thread, but I wonder what you think of this: A couple weeks ago I visited another Orthodox parish and the priest there had to way at least 500 lbs. or more. Seriously. Would it have been my place, or anyone else's, to take him aside and tell him how sinful he is for gluttony? I certainly don't think so. I have enough of my own sins to worry about!

That aside, I did edit one of my previous posts on this thread. I don't want people to think that any sin should be taken lightly, and I'm sorry if my post came off that way.

Maybe it wouldn't have been your place, but i think those of his parish who know him should maybe try to help him, and maybe they do.

I'm sure some do mention it to him and he knows himself.
Doctors may have warned him, i'm sure it's not healthy to be that weight and could even be life threatening.

There are loving ways of rebuking people, without being self righteous and condemning.

Why shouldn't those who love him try to help him.

 

[MariaRegina]

I know some people who have a serious problem with diabetes and allergies. Food just turns into sugar... and they don't eat that much. Yet they cannot lose weight and they are terribly obese. One woman just got her stomach stabled to control this and died from the operation. We have to pray for these people.

Allergies to foods can cause cravings and horrible blood sugar crashes. I have that problem myself ... I'm not overweight but still it's horrible feeling all sweaty and making incoherent statements.

Lord have mercy.
Elizabeth

Maybe it wouldn't have been your place, but i think those of his parish who know him should maybe try to help him, and maybe they do.

I'm sure some do mention it to him and he knows himself.
Doctors may have warned him, i'm sure it's not healthy to be that weight and could even be life threatening.

There are loving ways of rebuking people, without being self righteous and condemning.

Why shouldn't those who love him try to help him.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

I know some people who have a serious problem with diabetes and allergies. Food just turns into sugar... and they don't eat that much. Yet they cannot lose weight and they are terribly obese. One woman just got her stomach stabled to control this and died from the operation. We have to pray for these people.

Allergies to foods can cause cravings and horrible blood sugar crashes. I have that problem myself ... I'm not overweight but still it's horrible feeling all sweaty and making incoherent statements.

Lord have mercy.
Elizabeth

Yes, I definitely agree! Despite what a lot of diet books say, there are other contributing factors to weight gain/obesity than just overeating. I have a thyroid/autoimmune disease that slows down my metabolism. Losing weight, while not impossible, is a slow and very frustrating process for me. The fatigue is not fun, either. Anyway, this is just one more reason not to make judgements on people who we *think* are sinning in some way (not that you were doing that, Aria ).

Oh, and I know of several people who have had that gastric bypass surgery. Three are dead, one came very near to dying and will have life long nutritional deficiencies, and the other also came VERY close to dying as a result of complications. You don't hear many of the horror stories in all the magazine articles praising that surgery.

SORRY......I think I have sufficiently highjacked this thread after all....

 

[jkotinek]

I hope I didn't come across as condoning masturbation or anything. My main concern was not condemning people to hell for it.

Oh, not at all. My posting the link is simply selfish on my part. I didn't want to copy/paste it all over here, and I would welcome more Orthodox participation on my "home" board.

I found this bit of wisdom from Bishop Alexander Mileant:
He talks about how sexual fulfillment outside of marriage is a sin against wholeness. There should be no separation between sexuality and Eros.

Absolutely agree. That is one of the points I try to explain on the linked thread: that misplaced sexual desire is a result of the Fall and corruption.

 

[Lay down all]

I know some people who have a serious problem with diabetes and allergies. Food just turns into sugar... and they don't eat that much. Yet they cannot lose weight and they are terribly obese. One woman just got her stomach stabled to control this and died from the operation. We have to pray for these people.

Allergies to foods can cause cravings and horrible blood sugar crashes. I have that problem myself ... I'm not overweight but still it's horrible feeling all sweaty and making incoherent statements.

Lord have mercy.
Elizabeth

But glutony is still glutony and should be preached as such, i beleive that is what was being being refered to as if we should rebuke another for their sin, of which we should out of love not hate.

We see the hold sin has over people, for it once had it over us, and there may be still some things we struggle with, but if these things are not condemned then how much easier is it to give in to such ecspecailly with so many condoning so much today.

I'm a bit lost now, what is being said is masturbation to be condemned or not, if one amongst our congregation speaks of it as good and not sinful are we not to rebuke them out of love?

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

I'm a bit lost now, what is being said is masturbation to be condemned or not, if one amongst our congregation speaks of it as good and not sinful are we not to rebuke them out of love?

I think we could safely come to the conclusion that based on the writings of the Church Fathers, as well as Biblical principles, it is a sin. It is a self-centered practice, a perverted use of something for self-gratification only. This is not conducive to theosis, which basically means to become like Christ. This is not an easy concept to accept if you are exposed to worldly psychology and physiological theories (and we all are, on a daily basis through the media).

 

[MariaRegina]

.

Yes, I definitely agree! Despite what a lot of diet books say, there are other contributing factors to weight gain/obesity than just overeating. I have a thyroid/autoimmune disease that slows down my metabolism. Losing weight, while not impossible, is a slow and very frustrating process for me. The fatigue is not fun, either. Anyway, this is just one more reason not to make judgements on people who we *think* are sinning in some way (not that you were doing that, Aria ).

Oh, and I know of several people who have had that gastric bypass surgery. Three are dead, one came very near to dying and will have life long nutritional deficiencies, and the other also came VERY close to dying as a result of complications. You don't hear many of the horror stories in all the magazine articles praising that surgery.

SORRY......I think I have sufficiently highjacked this thread after all....

Actually, you haven't hijacked the thread at all as lust and gluttony go together. Our Lord said that certain demons could only be cast out by prayer and fasting and I am quite sure he was referring to the two twin demons of lust and gluttony.

Anyway, some of the movies I had to watch in college classes were just too sexually explicit. I won't go into details, but they were an opening the devil used to tempt me. The struggle I went through to purge those thoughts from my mind was heroic and finally the priest had to say two prayers of exorcism from the Orthodox book of prayers. It was effective.

From my past experiences, therefore, I can tell you that whenever I had overindulged at the local soup-and-salad all-you-can-eat eatery commonly referred to as "Gluttony Palace" in our parish, I usually had terrible sexual temptations and demonic dreams. The two (gluttony and lust) went together. I had to learn to only take one plate and no seconds or else, it seemed like the demons were just waiting for me. Then I would have to stay up all night in prayer, just to get bad thoughts out of my mind. I also stayed away from R-rated movies and had to practice custody of the eyes with all the terrible Las Vegas ad boards here in L.A. Thinking of a purple elephant just didn't work. Making 40 prostrations did help along with saying the Jesus Prayer. I also was told not to eat meat after 3 p.m. because the l-carnitine in meats is known to be a stimulant. I did this with the blessings of my priest.

Incidentally, that is probably why young monks are given an obedience of saying the Jesus Prayer while making about 100 to 300 prostrations per day. Also monastics avoid any meat - except salmon or fish on feast days.

Hope this helps

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Wow, I never thought much about it before, but it does make sense that the two would be related (lust and gluttony). Two sides of the same coin, really. Both have to do with satisfying the flesh at the expense of the soul. Hmm, lots of food for thought.....and prayer!

 

[Akathist]

To clarify, I guess when I wrote that sexual relations in marriage is only for procreation purposes I was thinking of the teaching of the RCC. I know better than that and lost my mind for a minute.

I was trying to convey however, that sexual behavior needs to be contained to marriage and related to the health of marriage.

And that touching yourself is a sin that can lead to objectification of others and to other sins.

(And I am very guilty of glutteny and to lustful thoughts.)

By the way, off subject: I thought that before I am Chrismated (spelling?) I had to do a confession in which I attempt to the best of my knowledge to report all of my sins. Is that correct?

 

[MariaRegina]

To clarify, I guess when I wrote that sexual relations in marriage is only for procreation purposes I was thinking of the teaching of the RCC. I know better than that and lost my mind for a minute.

I was trying to convey however, that sexual behavior needs to be contained to marriage and related to the health of marriage.

And that touching yourself is a sin that can lead to objectification of others and to other sins.

(And I am very guilty of glutteny and to lustful thoughts.)

By the way, off subject: I thought that before I am Chrismated (spelling?) I had to do a confession in which I attempt to the best of my knowledge to report all of my sins. Is that correct?

Yes, a full-life confession is made on the day of Chrismation or the evening preceeding it. Don't worry, God will give you the necessary grace and you don't have to add up all the times that you failed in one area. However, you should tell the priest if it is a habit or just a one time failing.

We bring all our sins to Christ with the priest as a witness. The priest is there to help us so that we hopefully won't repeat these sins again.

There is an excellent little booklet written by Father Thomas Hopko on Confession. Your priest probably has some if you want one. Just ask him.

Lovingly yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[isshinwhat]

I guess when I wrote that sexual relations in marriage is only for procreation purposes I was thinking of the teaching of the RCC.

This is a popular misconception. The Catholic Church does not teach that the sexual union between a man and a woman is for procreation alone, only that such a union must be open to conception.

God Bless,

Neal

2361 "Sexuality, by means of which man and woman give themselves to one another through the acts which are proper and exclusive to spouses, is not simply something biological, but concerns the innermost being of the human person as such. It is realized in a truly human way only if it is an integral part of the love by which a man and woman commit themselves totally to one another until death." 143

Tobias got out of bed and said to Sarah, "Sister, get up, and let us pray and implore our Lord that he grant us mercy and safety." So she got up, and they began to pray and implore that they might be kept safe. Tobias began by saying, "Blessed are you, O God of our fathers. . . . You made Adam, and for him you made his wife Eve as a helper and support. From the two of them the race of mankind has sprung. You said, 'It is not good that the man should be alone; let us make a helper for him like himself.' I now am taking this kinswoman of mine, not because of lust, but with sincerity. Grant that she and I may find mercy and that we may grow old together." And they both said, "Amen, Amen." Then they went to sleep for the night. 144​

2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude." 145 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation. 146​

​

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Thanks, Neal. I have some family members who are devout RC and have indicated they believed it was sin if not for procreation. I assumed it was something that the RCC taught. Sorry! Is this something that the RCC stance has changed over time, like with Vatican II?

 

[BlestVessel]

Well, I'll have a lot of confessing to do once I officially join the Church. Wow I've sinned a lot.

What happens if you can't remember some of your sins and thus not confess them? Are you condemned? There's so many of them, how can you remember them all?

Help please!

Esran, I don't know if anyone's said this and I don't have enough time to read through all of the posts in this thread.
When a thirty-year old accepts the Lord Jesus and repents of sin, that doesn't mean they must recall every previous sin to accept forgiveness.
Now that you know this is a sin, I'm certain you've repented (been grieved in your heart, developed a hatred for the sin, apologized, and in determination chose to replace holiness with what was once wicked, and trusting Christ's blood has covered it over and made you new).
God doesn't condemn us for that which we don't know, but calls us to a higher wisdom in order that we know-to a degree-both the heights of His good ways and the depths of our blackened ways in the flesh so that we will turn from what we once thought good when we were deceived.
Most fortunately, you are knowing the Lord in new ways and can ask Him and trust Him to reveal habitual and unintentional sin to you. With the Holy Spirit in you, you'll feel a tug whenever you are set to commit sin, and can verify by Scripture.
Remember, God desires we live a holy life as much as we do, so He'll enable you. Don't be anxious or worry, but rest in Him and He'll lead you into all righteousness, just keep up pursuit.

 

[walking.away.123]

What is the Orthodox opinion of mutual touching yourself and oral sex within marriage?

 

[Oblio]

When a thirty-year old accepts the Lord Jesus and repents of sin, that doesn't mean they must recall every previous sin to accept forgiveness.

No, but prior to joining His Holy Orthodox Church, one must make a sincere effort to recall their sins from youth until the present day and confess them to Christ in the presence of a priest. This is done for the healing of ones soul. While difficult and draining, it is IMO one of the most freeing and liberating experiences that you will ever experience.

 

[isshinwhat]

Is this something that the RCC stance has changed over time, like with Vatican II?

You are welcome. The Church, herself, has not changed her opinion. A lot of the popular misconceptions concerning the Catholic Church come from theologians making private theological judgments and as they grow more popular, people forgetting that they are private theological statements and not those of the Church. Purgatory being a place, for example. The Church has never said such a "place" exists, leaving open the possibility that it is more of a state of being after death.

May the Lord bless you and keep you strong in your Faith.

Neal

 

[MariaRegina]

What is the Orthodox opinion of mutual touching yourself and oral sex within marriage?

My Orthodox Priest and others (when on retreat) have said that this behavior is unbecoming of true Christians. Foreplay is allowed, however.

 

[jkotinek]

What is the Orthodox opinion of mutual touching yourself and oral sex within marriage?

This, like the topic of masturbation in general, isn't something that you're likely to find treatises written on.

To extend Aria's answer a bit (if that isn't too presumptuous),consider the theology expressed in marriage, that it should be a reflection of the relationship of the Trinity: two distinct persons in an insoluble relationship. The kind of love that should be expressed is unselfish and completing. The sex act, as the physical expression of that relationship, would necessarily not be individual, but cooperative. To be somewhat base, both parties should be experiencing fulfillment and genuine love for the other--not a fetishized fantasy or exotic objectification. Without getting into specifics of what is allowed or not allowed, I think that is a good guideline, as it would also be relevant to misuse of sex even in traditional modes of intercourse.