Orthodox View on Masturbation - Is it a Sin?

[Anatoli]

what is the orthodox view of masturbation?


-Anatoli Brokovich

 

[MariaRegina]

It is considered to be equal to adultery (if you are married); fornication, if you are unmarried.

It is a serious sin that can be overcome with prayer, fasting, and prostrations.

 

[QuagDabPeg]

If someone commits this sin during his teenage years (as any science book will tell you most boys do) will he be condemned to hell for it?

 

[MariaRegina]

If someone commits this sin during his teenage years (as any science book will tell you most boys do) will he be condemned to hell for it?

Dear QDP:

If a person knows that it is a serious sin and is unrepentant, then yes, such a sinner could be hell-bound. Only God is the judge here, but this is a serious sin.

[EDIT: we condemn ourselves to hell, and can even begin to suffer the loneliness of hell on earth. God is love and wants to save us, but many times we don't care in the heat of passion and pleasure.]

If it's a bad habit, and it can become that very quickly, then the help of a priest is required. It is spiritual warfare.

An Orthodox Christian priest gave a sermon about a man who struggled with such a sin but he would never confess it - making unworthy confessions all his life. If he had died with all these sins, he could have gone to hell. Finally as he was near death, he called for a priest and made a full life confession.

Afterwards, he told the priest to tell his story to others -- that he had suffered from fear of rejection and pride all these years. These sins had their toll on his life. He regreted not confessing much earler and having to a closer relationship with God.

This man also realized that his relationship with his own children suffered because he could not be open with God through the miinistry of a priest. Likewise, his relationship with his wife suffered. Sin has a cosmic effect. Therefore, there is no such thing as a private sin.

Hope this helps,

Elizabeth, a sinner

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Is it really considered serious, Aria? That's not the fedback I got from the Priests I have heard. Could you give some info, please?

 

[Dust and Ashes]

Wow, why didn't someone tell the Masturbation Thread was coming to TAW?!?!? I had to buy my ticket from a scalper at 300% markup!

 

[MariaRegina]

Is it really considered serious, Aria? That's not the fedback I got from the Priests I have heard. Could you give some info, please?

I went to several retreats on the mystery of Confession. The priest stressed that this very sin keeps a lot of folks away from Communion and failing to confess it causes a lot of problems because they are making unworthy confessions. It's the shame involved which stems from pride.

A bad sinful habit is addictive, whether it is alcoholism, smoking, gambling, or masturbation. These habits are very hard to overcome and so the Church looks at the struggle the person is making. If the person is sincerely trying to ovecome these sins, then the Church is more lenient and will not impose a penance (deny the person Holy Communion). The important thing with all sins is that we accept the grace of God and continually get up and repent after each fall. Are we sorry, have we repented - these are the questions the priest will ask.

It's important, then to always be open with your priest with any habitual sin.

Hope this helps.
Elizabeth

 

[Akathist]

Orthodox does not have "venial" and "mortal" sins. All sin is a seperation from God and needs to be confessed.

I specialize in working with people who have sexual abberant behavior as a counselor. So, this is an area I have education and experience addressing. Masturbation always involves thoughts (fantasies), even in men. (Remember, women often touch as well.) Since the sexual union of husband and wife [bold]for the purpose of procreation [/bold] is the only approved expression of our God given sexuality, you can see that fantasies are not approved. (And please don't try to convince me that every masterbates only about their spouse! I don't buy it. Besides, these fantasies are not about creating a child but about the sexual act seperate from procreation.)

Very often what is initially stimulating stops having much power and different fantasies are invented to be "more stimulating". Often these fantasies become more and more deviant. This could lead to seeking pornagraphy, then on to strip clubs or prostitutes or casual sexual experiences to increase "stimulation". In order to become deviant in the fantasies the person increasing sees the fantasy sexual partner as an object whose only purpose is to give them immediate gratification. When anyone begins to see another human as an object, they are denying the presense of God as He made all people in His image. In addition, no person can physically harm another person unless they first make the other an object.

Hense, the development of rape and child molestation behaviors. (My area of training is in the treatment of these people.) Now, not everyone who masterbates becomes a rapist or child molester. However, all rapist and child molester's admit to frequent touching yourself, a great deal of fantasy and almost all of them to the use of pornagraphy. A large number also have casual sexual contacts prior to harming another.

That said, I am still learning about Orthodoxy and from what I have been told by a priest what happens to each person after they die is a Mystery and no one can know for sure the status of their soul or where they will spend eternity except for God. To be safe, please go to confession. (Or put it on your list to discuss at your first confession if you are like me and inquiring and planning on converting.)

 

[SaintGeorge]

Wow! I wish I would've known this a long time ago! I've always felt ashamed of touching yourself, but at school they taught us that it was natural and not to feel guilty about it. They said that it was absolutely fine when done in private! Even my current Baptist church in my opinion expresses neutrality regarding it. I say this because no one at my current church has ever told me that it's wrong!

I've always felt it's wrong though. God, please forgive me for the countless times I've done this sin! Again I've been misled! I've got to get into the Orthodox Church.

Please forgive me and pray for me. With the Holy Spirit's help, I will overcome this.

 

[Iacobus]

Orthodox does not have "venial" and "mortal" sins. All sin is a seperation from God and needs to be confessed.

I specialize in working with people who have sexual abberant behavior as a counselor. So, this is an area I have education and experience addressing. Masturbation always involves thoughts (fantasies), even in men. (Remember, women often touch as well.) Since the sexual union of husband and wife [bold]for the purpose of procreation [/bold] is the only approved expression of our God given sexuality, you can see that fantasies are not approved. (And please don't try to convince me that every masterbates only about their spouse! I don't buy it. Besides, these fantasies are not about creating a child but about the sexual act seperate from procreation.)

Very often what is initially stimulating stops having much power and different fantasies are invented to be "more stimulating". Often these fantasies become more and more deviant. This could lead to seeking pornagraphy, then on to strip clubs or prostitutes or casual sexual experiences to increase "stimulation". In order to become deviant in the fantasies the person increasing sees the fantasy sexual partner as an object whose only purpose is to give them immediate gratification. When anyone begins to see another human as an object, they are denying the presense of God as He made all people in His image. In addition, no person can physically harm another person unless they first make the other an object.

Hense, the development of rape and child molestation behaviors. (My area of training is in the treatment of these people.) Now, not everyone who masterbates becomes a rapist or child molester. However, all rapist and child molester's admit to frequent touching yourself, a great deal of fantasy and almost all of them to the use of pornagraphy. A large number also have casual sexual contacts prior to harming another.

That said, I am still learning about Orthodoxy and from what I have been told by a priest what happens to each person after they die is a Mystery and no one can know for sure the status of their soul or where they will spend eternity except for God. To be safe, please go to confession. (Or put it on your list to discuss at your first confession if you are like me and inquiring and planning on converting.)

Good post, TG. The only thing I might try to clarify is that I don't think the Orthodox necessarily feel like sex has to be only for procreation. In fact, my impression is that Orthodoxy tends to be refreshingly earthy, and sexual expression between a husband and wife is not at all constrained, other than during fasting periods. St John Chrysostom wrote:

"I do not of course count marriage among evil things, but rather I praise it exceedingly. For it is the harbor of chastity for those who desire to use it well, and it renders one's nature not to be wild. For like a dam, marriage gives us an opportunity for legitimate intercourse and in this way contains the waves of sexual desire. It places us in a great calm, and watches over us."

(On Virginity, IX.1)

In "The Constitutions of the Holy Apostles", an ante-nicene writing, it is said:

"A husband, therefore, and a wife, when they company together in lawful marriage, and rise from one another, may pray without any observations, and without washings are clean. But whoever corrupts and defiles another man's wife, or is defiled with a harlot, when he arises up from her, even if he should wash himself in the entire ocean and all the rivers, cannot be clean."



James

 

[QuagDabPeg]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be it all comes down to repentence. Masturbation is not lesser or graver a sin than any other (since any sin seperates us from God) and it is not that God has a checklist as says "ahp, he masturbated, put him on the Hell list" but just as with any sin, the continuous repatition of the sin ultimately leads us to chose earthly desires over God, and thus leads us to reject God's love.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Good post, TG. The only thing I might try to clarify is that I don't think the Orthodox necessarily feel like sex has to be only for procreation. In fact, my impression is that Orthodoxy tends to be refreshingly earthy, and sexual expression between a husband and wife is not at all constrained, other than during fasting periods. St John Chrysostom wrote:

"I do not of course count marriage among evil things, but rather I praise it exceedingly. For it is the harbor of chastity for those who desire to use it well, and it renders one's nature not to be wild. For like a dam, marriage gives us an opportunity for legitimate intercourse and in this way contains the waves of sexual desire. It places us in a great calm, and watches over us."

(On Virginity, IX.1)

In "The Constitutions of the Holy Apostles", an ante-nicene writing, it is said:

"A husband, therefore, and a wife, when they company together in lawful marriage, and rise from one another, may pray without any observations, and without washings are clean. But whoever corrupts and defiles another man's wife, or is defiled with a harlot, when he arises up from her, even if he should wash himself in the entire ocean and all the rivers, cannot be clean."



James

I'm very glad you posted this, James. The idea that sex is sinful (within marriage) if procreation is not intended is NOT a traditional Christian belief. Actually, a lot of what some have said sounded very Roman Catholic, as they tend to view marital sex this way.

Also, we need to remember that hell is NOT a place, and God DOES NOT send us there for offending Him. Now, if the Holy Spirit convicts us something continually, and we fail to repent, we put our own souls in danger. But I will not, nor should anyone, condemn all people who commit or struggle with a certain sin.

***EDIT***

The comment I made about that article was irresponsible because I don't remember who wrote it or where it came from. Please disregard the comment. I do not want to mislead anyone! Sorry!

 

[SaintGeorge]

All in all, it's nobody's business what sins we struggle with

Wait a minute...then what is confession for? Shouldn't we confess our sins? You've lost me here.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

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Wait a minute...then what is confession for? Shouldn't we confess our sins? You've lost me here.

Sorry, Esran. Yes, confession with a priest is a good thing. It IS his business. What I meant was that it is not anyone else's business BESIDES your priest/spiritual father.

 

[Matrona]

Wow! I wish I would've known this a long time ago! I've always felt ashamed of touching yourself, but at school they taught us that it was natural and not to feel guilty about it. They said that it was absolutely fine when done in private! Even my current Baptist church in my opinion expresses neutrality regarding it. I say this because no one at my current church has ever told me that it's wrong!

I've always felt it's wrong though. God, please forgive me for the countless times I've done this sin! Again I've been misled! I've got to get into the Orthodox Church.

Please forgive me and pray for me. With the Holy Spirit's help, I will overcome this.

Dear Esran,

Many people are misled about this sin because most churches are unwilling to come out strongly against something this, well, popular. Some rationalize it by saying, "Well, it's better than going out and actually having sex with someone outside of marriage." Physically speaking, that's true, but Jesus said one who even looks at someone lustfully has already committed adultery in his heart. If you ask me, masturbation is one of the most harmful sins in existence. Unless someone has no interest in sex at all, just about everybody does it or has done it or will do it. Yet, unlike outright fornication and adultery, very few people can even bear to speak the name of it out loud. I will bet you a dollar that most of the people in this thread wouldn't be able to say what they said in their posts out loud in a conversation. This shame keeps people from getting spiritual help to overcome it. And because of the cultural taboo on its discussion, the only people who are willing to say the "M-word" out loud are people who don't acknowledge its sinfulness and are actually out to promote it.

See how sneaky Satan is? The adversary has actually used our own recognition of masturbation's sinfulness to badger us into quiet acceptance of it!

 

[jkotinek]

This link is to a thread on TexAgs.com and has a very good discussion on this same topic (and includes quite a bit of internet research on the Orthodox perspective):

texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?forum_id=15&topic_id=330954

 

[SaintGeorge]

Well, I'll have a lot of confessing to do once I officially join the Church. Wow I've sinned a lot.

What happens if you can't remember some of your sins and thus not confess them? Are you condemned? There's so many of them, how can you remember them all?

Help please!

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

This link is to a thread on TexAgs.com and has a very good discussion on this same topic (and includes quite a bit of internet research on the Orthodox perspective):

texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?forum_id=15&topic_id=330954

Thanks, Jonathan. I hope I didn't come across as condoning masturbation or anything. My main concern was not condemning people to hell for it. I found this bit of wisdom from Bishop Alexander Mileant:

There should be no sexual life outside marriage. It must die out outside family — whether in voluntary celibacy or in solitary life forced by circumstances. The requirements of health here coincide with those of Christianity. Any sexual life outside of marriage, giving only temporary satisfaction, invariably pushes a human being if not onto the way of falsehood, then always onto the way of sin; for this kind of sexual life is the triumph of pure sexuality at the expense of the spiritual side.

Here it is necessary to touch upon the dark sides of sex, which are an infringement against the natural norm. It has already been said earlier, that among the different instincts or inclinations the sexual one is the strongest and the most difficult to control. If it is not restrained, it may degenerate into a fierce lascivious lust, which can cripple a person both spiritually and physically. The reason for this abnormal change is the sinfulness of our nature. Animals are free from this kind of damage. With the fall of the first man the balance between his physical and spiritual powers was lost. Therefore quite natural needs sometimes begin to degenerate into pernicious passions, for example: the need to eat and drink — into gluttony and drunkenness, and an instinct of reproduction — into unguided lust. This is our tragedy, that being put by the Creator as overseers of fauna and as "kings" of it, we often appear to be much worse than unreasonable creatures (Psalm 49:13).

He talks about how sexual fulfillment outside of marriage is a sin against wholeness. There should be no separation between sexuality and Eros.

 

[Lay down all]

I'm very glad you posted this, James. The idea that sex is sinful (within marriage) if procreation is not intended is NOT a traditional Christian belief. Actually, a lot of what Aria said sounded very Roman Catholic, as they tend to view marital sex this way.

Also, Aria, we need to remember that hell is NOT a place, and God DOES NOT send us there for offending Him. Now, if the Holy Spirit convicts us something continually, and we fail to repent, we put our own souls in danger. But I will not, nor should anyone, condemn all people who commit or struggle with a certain sin.

I actually read something about this a while back and for the life of me can't remember where. A priest was talking about this subject, and he compared it with things like smoking, over-eating, and such. Would it be fair to warn all over-eaters that they are headed for hell? I think not. This particular priest seemed to indicate moderation is key (avoiding habitual behaviors). Now, I'm going to have to figure out where I read that. I'm sure it was a credible source. All in all, it's nobody's business what sins we struggle with, and definitely no one else's call as to whether we are headed for hell.

Of course we should warn overeaters, it's self indulgence seeking fullfillment in food, as in all worldly endulgences keeps us from the true fullfillment, which is the love of God in our hearts.
An overeater needs help as much as a masturbator, and i have struggled with this sin and would find it no use people not condemning it, people should help another who sins out of love, not looking down on them, but being a servant to them of Gods love.

I want my brother to rebuke me, i want to be warned of sin, i want to know sin to avoid it and be helped to overcome it.
I see an excuse for nearly every sin today, and even if it is recognized as sin, they then seems to be a sort of encouragement in it, by saying we love you as you are, forgetting the love of Christ was to free us from sin, He died for our sins, not for us to still be servants of them but free from the bondage they kept us in.
We still love another when they are sinners, for Christ died for us when we were yet sinners, but it wasn't for us to remain such, otherwise His death was in vain.
We also out of love for sinners and our brethren want them to overcome sin, this is love not some evil as the world calls it today.

Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[Matrona]

Well, I'll have a lot of confessing to do once I officially join the Church. Wow I've sinned a lot.

What happens if you can't remember some of your sins and thus not confess them? Are you condemned? There's so many of them, how can you remember them all?

Help please!

Aww, Esran... Confession is a test of your repentance, not a test of your memory! We don't confess because God needs to hear us say something in order to erase our sins for us--we confess because it represents our acknowledgement of our sins and that we need help to overcome them.

So if you forget to mention something, the fact that you forgot isn't going to condemn you to hell or get you in trouble with the church. The point is to mention things that you are having trouble with at the present time or that you feel guilty for.