New fossil shows four-legged fishapod that returned to the water while Tiktaalik ventured onto land

essentialsaltes

Stranger in a Strange Land
Oct 17, 2011
33,945
37,328
Los Angeles Area
✟843,490.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)

New fossil is closely related to other animals that made the transition to land


A new study from the laboratory of University of Chicago paleontologist Neil Shubin, who co-discovered Tiktaalik in 2004, describes a fossil species that closely resembles Tiktaalik but has features that made it more suited to life in the water than its adventurous cousin.

Qikiqtania wakei was small—just 30 inches long—compared to Tiktaalik, which could grow up to nine feet. The new fossil includes partial upper and lower jaws, portions of the neck, and scales. Mostly importantly, it also features a complete pectoral fin with a distinct humerus bone that lacks the ridges that would indicate where muscles and joints would be on a limb geared toward walking on land. Instead, Qikiqtania’s upper arm was smooth and curved, more suited for a life paddling underwater. The uniqueness of the arm bones of Qikiqtania suggest that it returned to paddling the water after its ancestors began to use their appendages for walking.

The name Qikiqtania (pronounced kick-kick-TAN-ee-ya) comes from the Inuktitut word Qikiqtaaluk or Qikiqtani, the traditional name for the region where the fossil site is located. The species designation wakei is in memory of the late David Wake, an eminent evolutionary biologist from the University of California, Berkeley.

Qikiqtania is slightly older than Tiktaalik, but not by much. The team’s analysis of where it sits on the tree of life places it, like Tiktaalik, adjacent to the earliest creatures known to have finger-like digits. But even though Qikiqtania’s distinct pectoral fin was more suited for swimming, it wasn’t entirely fish-like either. Its curved paddle shape was a distinct adaptation, different from the jointed, muscled legs or fan-shaped fins we see in tetrapods and fish today.


refresher on Tiktaalik
 

The IbanezerScrooge

I can't believe what I'm hearing...
Sep 1, 2015
2,642
4,508
50
Florida
✟249,731.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Tiktaalik was probably one of the greatest discoveries in the history of paleontology. The story of how that fossil was found is a master class in how different fields of science work together and independanty validate each other. And this appears to be more of the same.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,701
51,632
Guam
✟4,948,958.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Tiktaalik was probably one of the greatest discoveries in the history of paleontology. The story of how that fossil was found is a master class in how different fields of science work together and independanty validate each other. And this appears to be more of the same.
How many tries did it take them to find this thing?
 
Upvote 0

The IbanezerScrooge

I can't believe what I'm hearing...
Sep 1, 2015
2,642
4,508
50
Florida
✟249,731.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
How many tries did it take them to find this thing?
Go look it up yourself. Dr. Shubin wrote a whole book about it. But, I know you don't really care.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,701
51,632
Guam
✟4,948,958.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Go look it up yourself. Dr. Shubin wrote a whole book about it.
I'm not going to read a book, just to find a two or three-digit number.

I assume you read this book too? and if so, you would have given me the answer I'm looking for.

So please don't send me on an egg hunt in a field were you know no eggs exist.
But, I know you don't really care.
I care enough to make a good point that science likes to sweep there failures under the carpet and only report their victories.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,701
51,632
Guam
✟4,948,958.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
:) this is like counting to 10 yet you have to skip some numbers since they are missing. Not something they have ever been upfront about.
They only report their successes, not their failures.
 
Upvote 0

Frank Robert

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2021
2,276
1,122
KW
✟127,713.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
They only report their successes, not their failures.
How is discovering something new, different or unexpected about life a failure? Science is not religion where believers grapple over interpretations of a 2000 year old book written by a nomadic desert tribe.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,701
51,632
Guam
✟4,948,958.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
How is discovering something new, different or unexpected about life a failure?
Did I say it was a failure?

Tiktaalik was found.

End of story.

BUT ... if you want to make it look like he was pinpointed on a map and discovered right from the get-go, using evolution as a guideline, I'm going to ask a simple question:

After how many tries?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Frank Robert

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2021
2,276
1,122
KW
✟127,713.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Did I say it was a failure?

Tikleme Elmo was found.

End of story.

BUT ... if you want to make it look like he was pinpointed on a map and discovered right from the get-go, using evolution as a guideline, I'm going to ask a simple question:

After how many tries?
Your right I got it backwards. Even so you still do not understand that evolution is not a religious belief. I think you used the right word "guideline" and for the most part evolution progress forward but not always. Evolution has also reversed. Hagfish, penguins, and aphids are just some examples of the creatures shaped by what’s known as regressive evolution.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

essentialsaltes

Stranger in a Strange Land
Oct 17, 2011
33,945
37,328
Los Angeles Area
✟843,490.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
After how many tries?

I'm not sure what counts as a try, but it was after five seasons of hunting on the same island.

"After five years of digging on Ellesmere Island, in the far north of Nunavut, they hit pay dirt: a collection of several fish so beautifully preserved that their skeletons were still intact. As Shubin's team studied the species they saw to their excitement that it was exactly the missing intermediate they were looking for. 'We found something that really split the difference right down the middle,' says Daeschler."
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,701
51,632
Guam
✟4,948,958.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Your right I got it backwards. Even so you still do not understand that evolution is not a religious belief. I think you used the right word "guideline" and for the most part evolution progress forward but not always. Evolution has also reversed. Hagfish, penguins, and aphids are just some examples of the creatures shaped by what’s known as regressive evolution.
Thank you.

Please note that I changed its name to its correct spelling.

I did consider changing "guideline" to "slide ruler," but didn't.
 
Upvote 0

Estrid

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
9,920
3,288
39
Hong Kong
✟155,469.00
Country
Hong Kong
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
In Relationship
I'm not sure what counts as a try, but it was after five seasons of hunting on the same island.

"After five years of digging on Ellesmere Island, in the far north of Nunavut, they hit pay dirt: a collection of several fish so beautifully preserved that their skeletons were still intact. As Shubin's team studied the species they saw to their excitement that it was exactly the missing intermediate they were looking for. 'We found something that really split the difference right down the middle,' says Daeschler."
Anyone who thinks it's easy to find
fossils ought to go find a T. rex.
Should get a few million dollars for
their afternoon stroll.

Ellesmere island would be cold wet and
windy, boggy hummocky ground.
If the wind stopped and the sun came out
a fog bank of big Arctic mosquitoes
would envelope you.

Access anywhere is difficult and time
consuming.

I'll toss a gold bar from a helicopter,
tell our clueless experts to see if they
can find it.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The IbanezerScrooge

I can't believe what I'm hearing...
Sep 1, 2015
2,642
4,508
50
Florida
✟249,731.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
I'm not going to read a book, just to find a two or three-digit number.

I assume you read this book too? and if so, you would have given me the answer I'm looking for.

So please don't send me on an egg hunt in a field were you know no eggs exist.

I care enough to make a good point that science likes to sweep there failures under the carpet and only report their victories.
"Science can take a hike." "The bible said it, I believe it, That settles it."

You do not care. You are impervious to evidence of anything that contradicts your belief. You are not asking anything in good faith because it wouldn't matter to you if I quoted the entirety of the book verbatim. You would not consider it.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Ophiolite
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,701
51,632
Guam
✟4,948,958.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
"Science can take a hike." "The bible said it, I believe it, That settles it."

You do not care. You are impervious to evidence of anything that contradicts your belief. You are not asking anything in good faith because it wouldn't matter to you if I quoted the entirety of the book verbatim. You would not consider it.
Then answer it for the audience.

I've asked a devastating question here and, left unanswered, just might get some people to start having second thoughts.
 
Upvote 0

The IbanezerScrooge

I can't believe what I'm hearing...
Sep 1, 2015
2,642
4,508
50
Florida
✟249,731.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Then answer it for the audience.

I've asked a devastating question here and, left unanswered, just might get some people to start having second thoughts.
No you haven't.

Go read the book.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums