A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
when does vs 29 happen ...
since the Church is with Christ before the trib
Yes the elect are the 144,000 jews
No they are not just jews! There are
12 tribes, not just the House of Judah[jews] House of Israel hebrews/gentiles
Anyway, I don't see how the church can be in "heaven" because according to revelation, it shows Christ reaping or gathering the elect, then the angels gathering the grapes of the vine and throwing them in the great winepress of God's wrath
The "elect" being reaped?
reve 14
14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat [One] like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.
17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, "Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe." 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.
the furnace of fire is on Earth, and appears to be the same as the lake of fire in revelation but the righteous are still on earth!.
37 He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
38 "The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked [one.]
39 "The enemy who sowed them is the devil,
the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 "Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and
they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 "and will cast them into the furnace of fire.
There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 "Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
John 8:44
"You are of [your] father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and [does not] stand in the truth,
reve 20:10
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into
the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [are.] And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.