Jesus's Ministry

[ICONO'CLAST]

So, where in the New Testament do Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, James, the Apostles to the Hebrews, or Jude teach that that prophecy, tongues, and healing are temporary and only meant to last less than 30 years after the Day of Pentecost?

Hello W1
Have you ever heard the historic teaching concerning these issues?
Could you outline it,giving the biblical support?
I can do it for you if you are sincere.

It will deal with the topics;
Apostolic Uniqueness

What are signs?

The closing of the canon.

The basis of our faith.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Can I request that this direction of debate is moved to another thread please.

This thread is the go to place for those wanting to read about my testimony.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Really - Maybe you could reread my posts !!!

I am staggered to read such an inaccurate quote...

Who said that ???

Apart from that, thanks for your may kind words.

I am puzzled though - Do you doubt that I went to Jerusalem? Should I post a copy of my passport entries? What would convince you? I posted a photo of the house I stayed in in Gilo. I am still in contact with the lady I prayed for, having a heart attack, nearly 40 years ago. I posted hospital records of a recent healing from cancer - did that not happen either ???

Would it help if you spoke to the lady who had cancer direct ???

Would you dismiss her testimony as well ?

Is the church just a museum of a faith that once was - has God finished doing stuff ???

That is not the Christianity I know and believe me I have been involved with science all my life and am as demanding of evidence as anyone.

Yesterday I got my hair cut and the hairdresser after talking with me asked for prayer for his bowel cancer. He closed the shop so we could pray. It turned out he was a youth pastor way back who had lost his way. I will support him on his journey back to Jesus. Is this not happening either ???

Some are called to continue the witness.

Funny how folks will accept this phenomena on the mission field without question but back home ??? No way !!! Jesus had the same issue.

Thanks for you kind reply, hopefully we can be more understanding of each other.

Hello Carl,
It is possible I mis-read something you posted.
I notice this forum is controversial theology forum, usually that means there is some degree of disagreement, could be slight, could be severe.
I do like much of what you post, it more solid than many who attempt.
I will go over the posts more carefully.
Carl I am not your judge. We might agree , we might not agree, but we do all before our Lord.

The biblical position I hold is the historic position which has come under attack in our day.

Keep serving God and openly confessing Christ.
I have been thrown off a couple of message boards, because some have no patience with a person who holds beliefs different from that which they hold.

I will answer honestly, but you might not like my answers.
I started my own messageboard which I had to do, just so I can post openly without being edited or censored.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Can I request that this direction of debate is moved to another thread please.

This thread is the go to place for those wanting to read about my testimony.

No problem, I did not get that from the title.
That is why I am forming my own place in my signature as I do not want to derail anyones thread here.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No problem, I did not get that from the title.
That is why I am forming my own place in my signature as I do not want to derail anyones thread here.

Hey, I appreciate your being so gracious. Maybe hang here a while longer and see what comes out of your interaction with W1.

I thought it might denigrate into the usual scripture slinging match but maybe not...

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Hey, I appreciate your being so gracious. Maybe hang here a while longer and see what comes out of your interaction with W1.

I thought it might denigrate into the usual scripture slinging match but maybe not...

Thanks. I find it better to frame out any theological issue, before trying to solve the puzzle.
This way if a person does not agree, at least they understand why they differ.
I would rather help people.I am not here to harm anyone.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hello W1
Have you ever heard the historic teaching concerning these issues?
Could you outline it,giving the biblical support?
I can do it for you if you are sincere.

It will deal with the topics;
Apostolic Uniqueness

What are signs?

The closing of the canon.

The basis of our faith.

Yep. Go ahead. I am interested in what you come up with.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Yep. Go ahead. I am interested in what you come up with.

ok, trying to create a new thread now

 

[Carl Emerson]

I do not think any of this has happened.

Well it happened again last week.

Our organist has a PhD from Cambridge.

He tripped up in the church basement and wounded his shins badly.

He ended up with a haematoma the size of his fist just below the knee.

He struggled to play and was in acute pain.

The options were to lance the thing or wait for the haematoma to reduce naturally.

The medical opinion was that this would likely take about 6 months.

The matter was deeply disturbing, his livelihood was under threat.

From a human point of view it was all over for him without a miracle. He played in about 5 churches.

I prayed for him on the phone and proclaimed defeat of a 'spiritual sentence' over his life.

He got prayer at our regular Anglican healing meeting and one of our number prayed for an acceleration of the healing.

Within 14 days the haematoma had completely disappeared.

Jesus is alive and heals today.

PM me if you want names.

He testified the following Sunday in our Liturgical Service.

 

[wendykvw]

Dear Friends,

I am really puzzled about the almost complete absence of a central aspect of Jesus ministry in the Christian world today.

When Jesus broke into the world He immediately demonstrated spiritual authority over powers and principalities that were binding peoples lives with sickness, disease, mental illness, physical deformity, etc. in fact He made a point of sending a message to John the Baptist that these things were happening as evidence that the Kingdom of God was being manifest with Him the awaited Messiah.

These signs were also present in the early church and believers were expectant to see even greater things than those evidenced in the ministry of Jesus.

Today the prevailing world view is that these conditions should not be considered to have a spiritual aspect, a clear denial of the Word of Jesus.

This is not only a position held outside Christian circles, but inside as well.

Some folks have even invented a theology to account of the absence of the ministry of Jesus in their midst.

My journey has been quite different. Jesus was my 'childhood hero' and I longed to do what he did. This led to a radical wilderness walk and He allowed me to go down - down - into depravity, in order that I might see first hand His Saving power and authority in my own life.

Being a rebuilt prodigal son, captive for a time by the demonic, I can now clearly see the true nature of the battle.

After seven years of prayer and restoration, and more than five years of constantly reading Scripture I was finally ready to step out with His presence and simply obey His Word to pray for others.

My testimony is to Honour Him alone as without Him there is nothing.

I prayed for a complete stranger in a park who had been in the RCMP drug squad was shot in the legs 11 years back and couldn't walk flat on his feet. Jesus healed this man in a few moments and as he walked up and down praising God and trying out his new walk. I was literally jumping for joy.

I prayed for a boy at a Church meeting who was having grand mal seizures. His parents met me 18 years later to confirm he was fully delivered and healed from that day.

I made a cold call on a Pastor who I had never met - as a complete stranger. As we prayed he slipped to the floor holding his throat pleading for prayer. Jesus showed me how to pray and deal with the spiritual root of his problem. His ministry was transformed as a result.

His spirit urged me to drive urgently to a house in Jerusalem, where I prayed for a lady having a heart attack, her auntie had died of the same symptoms at the same age. She was crying out not to be taken as her children were still young. She was healed in about two minutes. Again her condition had a spiritual root. We followed her progress for some years and there was no relapse.

These are a few of many wonderful incidents of being called to partner with Him that His Glory be seen.

These events do not happen every day - reading Paul one might think he was experiencing such things regularly when in fact his story spans many years.

So I simply want to say that His intent is that our lives have the excitement of seeing Him move. It starts with being completely sold out to Him - not fearing total commitment - but through obedience seeing His order established in our lives. Simply obeying His word, praying for the sick and leaving the results up to Him.

I don't see it as being a special gift - He is the special gift. Where He is, the Kingdom signs are manifest.

With me, these wonderful experiences are generally happening in the world, not in the church.

I am largely unknown but at 72, I need to encourage others that we can partake in His work, it is more than a dream.

Lastly, I am not a flake, my day job is associated with the aerospace industry, I am happily married with 5 children, my wife is special partner with deep faith in Him.

Bless you all,

Carl Emerson.

God is using you as an instrument to bring health and healing. You are a willing vessel. Many are unwilling vessels, as sad as that may sound this is a reality that Christ foretold. May God bless those vessels who are willing. May God bless you...

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Well it happened again last week.

Our organist has a PhD from Cambridge.

He tripped up in the church basement and wounded his shins badly.

He ended up with a haematoma the size of his fist just below the knee.

He struggled to play and was in acute pain.

The options were to lance the thing or wait for the haematoma to reduce naturally.

The medical opinion was that this would likely take about 6 months.

The matter was deeply disturbing, his livelihood was under threat.

From a human point of view it was all over for him without a miracle. He played in about 5 churches.

I prayed for him on the phone and proclaimed defeat of a 'spiritual sentence' over his life.

He got prayer at our regular Anglican healing meeting and one of our number prayed for an acceleration of the healing.

Within 14 days the haematoma had completely disappeared.

Jesus is alive and heals today.

PM me if you want names.

He testified the following Sunday in our Liturgical Service.

I am glad he received a positive answer to prayer.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I am glad he received a positive answer to prayer.

How does that relate to your previous claim that my narrative hasn't happened in reality ?

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

How does that relate to your previous claim that my narrative hasn't happened in reality ?

Praying for a need and getting the believing prayer answered, in this case, is the normal course of events.
It was an answer to prayer.
It was not a miracle.
The persons injury healed.
There was no claim made that God
Contacted a random person in let's say....Sweden, telling them to drop.what they were doing, get a plane ticket and fly to kiwiland,wait in a motel for 3 days,have strangers give the person money, then go cause healing to occur.
Two different scenarios.
What took place at the time of the Apostles was unique, not a pattern of everyday events.
You did ask me so that is what I see.
Carl....I once had a woman tell me that the Angel Moroni appeared in her living room declaring that Joseph Smith was sent from God.
She was sincere and convinced.
I do not know what she experienced, but I told her whatever happened it was not from God as He is no longer giving direct revelation as happened back at the time of the apostles.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Praying for a need and getting the believing prayer answered, in this case, is the normal course of events.
It was an answer to prayer.
It was not a miracle.
The persons injury healed.
There was no claim made that God
Contacted a random person in let's say....Sweden, telling them to drop.what they were doing, get a plane ticket and fly to kiwiland,wait in a motel for 3 days,have strangers give the person money, then go cause healing to occur.
Two different scenarios.
What took place at the time of the Apostles was unique, not a pattern of everyday events.
You did ask me so that is what I see.
Carl....I once had a woman tell me that the Angel Moroni appeared in her living room declaring that Joseph Smith was sent from God.
She was sincere and convinced.
I do not know what she experienced, but I told her whatever happened it was not from God as He is no longer giving direct revelation as happened back at the time of the apostles.

Then please be specific - what in my testimony on this thread did not happen in your view?

This is a serious issue as your claims accuse me of being a false witness.

 

[GTW27]

Then please be specific - what in my testimony on this thread did not happen in your view?

This is a serious issue as your claims accuse me of being a false witness.

Blessings in Christ Jesus Carl. You are a true witness Carl. Perhaps, the meaning of this man's chosen screen name, gives a clue to intention.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I hope there is no ill intent - I hope the screen name was chosen in light heartedness...

 

[Lost Witness]

Hello Carl.
I like most of what you post and see that you offer help to many people.
I am a cessationist, based on the bible.
I have several friends who claim all manner of manifestations.
I know the teaching they offered and could teach it, but i do not think it is biblical.
I have learned to trust the word of God, and act on it.
people claim God told them, this or that.
I am not told to believe anecdotal stories.
There are billions of people on the planet, but if I read your post correctly, you say God told you to leave a dinner party immediately, jump on a plane and fly half way around the world, wait 3 days in a motel, strangers were giving you money, then several near death healings took place???
Carl....i cannot understand this. He could have healed these people in answer to prayer.
I know God uses means, but This just does not make sense to me.
My wife had a mass on her side below her ribs years ago. We prayed for it to be healed for a few days, it remained. We went to a specialist costing several hundred dollars to walk in there.
The lump which was there when we left the house, was gone. The specialist called me into a different room,and asked me to describe the lump. It was gone. Iwas thankful but explained what had happened, and that evidently God had answered our prayer, and perhaps we were to confess that openly to this Doctor....[He still charged us}lol.
God can heal, yes.
God can prevent a person from getting sick or cancer to begin with.
God can allow believers to go through serious illness in order to comfort others, 2cor1
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.

6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.

7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

i am not certain of what happened to you, I just have trouble with such claims.
On a different board I was removed because one of the mods from Australia said his car ran out of petrol, completely empty. Claims his mother in law prayed in tongues, and the car drove like 160 miles with no gas....i do not think that happened.

I stay in the realm of revealed truth. There were signs of the Apostles, but that was foundational.
2cor12

12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

It does not say...signs of all Christians.
In mk 16 in that disputed text, it says these signs would follow"them that believed"
What they believed was the Apostolic preaching, signs followed.

I will look forward to your posts that are word centered. They do help several people.
I can only speak what i know Carl.

Carl, Unlike Myself. When he first heard the LORD obeyed him. Carl is Blessed because many are called but few are chosen. GOD bless you and keep you and your family always, Carl.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Carl, Unlike Myself. When he first heard the LORD obeyed him. Carl is Blessed because many are called but few are chosen. GOD bless you and keep you and your family always, Carl.

Thanks for your kind words.

I am however just a Joe Blow and undeserving of being associated with the matters I talk about.

I am not a picture of obedience but I have been enthralled by the Spirit of Jesus and have somehow been given an ear to hear Him Guide me into fruitful interaction with the needy. It is pretty specific at times and I am here to encourage others to enjoy the celebration of His Lordship and participate in His purpose in this late hour.

Sadly Mr ICONOCLAST wildly misrepresented my testimony when he said "God told you to leave a dinner party immediately, jump on a plane and fly half way around the world, wait 3 days in a motel, strangers were giving you money, then several near death healings took place...

Either he didn't read the thread or is just making ridiculous claims to try and discredit my testimony.

 

[Lost Witness]

Thanks for your kind words.

I am however just a Joe Blow and undeserving of being associated with the matters I talk about.

I am not a picture of obedience but I have been enthralled by the Spirit of Jesus and have somehow been given an ear to hear Him Guide me into fruitful interaction with the needy. It is pretty specific at times and I am here to encourage others to enjoy the celebration of His Lordship and participate in His purpose in this late hour.

Sadly Mr ICONOCLAST wildly misrepresented my testimony when he said "God told you to leave a dinner party immediately, jump on a plane and fly half way around the world, wait 3 days in a motel, strangers were giving you money, then several near death healings took place...

Either he didn't read the thread or is just making ridiculous claims to try and discredit my testimony.

i do have a question that i'd like to ask you in private. Be it the LORDS will.

 

[Carl Emerson]

You can PM me anytime...