I get the impression that American (Evangelical) Christians are supporting Trump, but why?

[Albion]

Given the number of times I alone have posted the facts for your benefit, that is beginning to verge on an intentional falsehood.

Then, if name-calling is an essential part of making the point, count me out of this discussion.

 

[Speedwell]

Then, if name-calling is an essential part of making the point, count me out of this discussion.

I'm not calling names, just making an observation. You've denied the figures in that graph often enough that it is beginning to seem as if you were doing it on purpose.

 

[loveofourlord]

Why should you be upset about that? You obviously don't know the full measure of accusations made and what will come before the Courts to make a final decision. It seems you want to give absolute approval to what you consider to be the reputation of men. One of the great Founding Fathers of America pointed out that is dangerous.

".... in questions of power then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the constitution." Thomas Jefferson 1798

Doesn't really matter how much confidence you have in Biden! Doesn't really matter if you think there's no way he or his group can't be guilty of nefarious things in this election. What matters is that the Rule of Law and legal recourse be allowed for someone who thinks that maybe there was. If you're against that being allowed to take place maybe that's the thing you should be upset about.

Right...says the guy who thinks that the Gish gallop of lawsuits somehow proves voter fraud.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I've been following the political situation in USA closely and it's been saddening for me to hear about how "evangelical Christians" (whatever that means) are part of the Trump-"base", and seen clips from churches in USA where people seem to be very eager to pray for Trump, despite how generally in the rest of the world Trump is being viewed as a person (to use the words that is commonly used) that lies and have no shame, have tendencies that lean toward authoritarianism, is xenophobic and really racist, rude and vulgar, creates fear, surround himself with only yes-men etc. etc. and have developed (again a word that is commonly used) a sort of cult where people no longer understand reality and believe that when Trump tell them lies then this is the truth. And basically this is the view I got too, I honestly don't understand a thing about why anyone would support such a man, and the last 4 years seem to have brought out the very worst in people living in America, have created doubt in NATO and other alliances of whether or not USA is still supporting these alliances, if they will come to the aid of democracies around the world in case of conflicts, since how he's talking about and dealing with dictators suggest to me that he's a really dangerous man, and this is something I've found explained to be true in every single book I've read, and I've read all the books of all the people that have had something to tell from the inside situation in the white house. Law enforcement and intelligence agencies talk about how white supremacy is gaining strength and how right-wing politics now is the NR.1 source of terror-attacks in USA, and the rule of law have caused a lot of those that work for Trump to end up in jail. Generals talk with worry about the current administration. Specially lately how Trump and Giuliani have spread claims of voter fraud and refuse to concede to Joe Biden, the winner of the election, and now also how people have been placed in the pentagon, and there's serious talk of a coup d'état, and that USA is very vulnerable. All around the world leaders have congratulated president-elect Biden, and where I live share jokes about Trump and talk with disbelief about this political figure, and I don't seem to be alone at all to totally failing to understand how it is that he have gotten such an enormous support, and I'm also honestly worried, since I have friends in USA and I worry how they are doing, since it's become a political issue to wear a face-mask and it's really surreal to me to see how people are cheering for a political figure that refuses to do anything to stop the virus, but just let people die, and the number is getting close to a quarter of a million, and still many people think it's a hoax.

The very worst thing for me though is that it is really saddening for me how infiltrated the churches in USA seem to have become by the Republican Party, and that when people talk with disgust about the Trump-administration, they seem to blame Christians (evangelical's - whatever that refer to) and thus blaspheme God, since they look at Christians as hypocrites that might talk of good things, but by supporting Trump are doing something evil. So I've honestly feared the end of days and really think that Trump is making the way for the Anti-Christ. And this make me fear the largest Christian community in the world, and I become confused, and I really feel that my faith is being damaged because I don't want anything at all to do with the type of politics that Trump seem to be about, clearly very far right-wing populism, since I don't see anything good, nothing constructive, and nothing that have anything to do with Christianity in this.

I want to make it very clear that I mean nothing offensive at all by this post. This is extra important for me to make clear, since I had a warning and someone reported me and I was punished with 1 point, and if I get 3 points I'll get banned from CF, and I want to stay here and specially in the prayer section, it's important for me and I need Jesus to remain strong, and perhaps others need me too.

Also I mean nothing offensive toward USA or in general I don't mean anything rude or to be bad, but the main point about this post is to ask and try to understand why Christians would support something that I look at as really un-Christian, something that make people afraid, sad and filled with hopelessness? If you understand me, then I'll do my best to try to understand you. I can only point to how extreme the joy from those that celebrated when Biden/Harris won, and personally I had a bottle of wine to celebrate, it really made me happy, since I really do hope that America can live up to the great expectations the whole world have.

It really is as if I look at a really foreign culture, and I don't understand why people say and do what they say and do with USA and Trump. I hope someone can explain this with simple English and common sense arguments.

Thanks for reading this, and I wish a good weekend for you all, and may God bless you and yours.

It’s about choosing the lesser of two evils. I couldn’t in good conscience support someone who is pro choice.

 

[loveofourlord]

It’s about choosing the lesser of two evils. I couldn’t in good conscience support someone who is pro choice.

But your not voting for a guy whose pro life either. And that attitude is why the US will continue to be a failed experiment, people don't care about the country or their fellow man or improving, just care about one thing and who cares how terrible things get.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I've been following the political situation in USA closely and it's been saddening for me to hear about how "evangelical Christians" (whatever that means) are part of the Trump-"base", and seen clips from churches in USA where people seem to be very eager to pray for Trump, despite how generally in the rest of the world Trump is being viewed as a person (to use the words that is commonly used) that lies and have no shame, have tendencies that lean toward authoritarianism, is xenophobic and really racist, rude and vulgar, creates fear, surround himself with only yes-men etc. etc. and have developed (again a word that is commonly used) a sort of cult where people no longer understand reality and believe that when Trump tell them lies then this is the truth. And basically this is the view I got too, I honestly don't understand a thing about why anyone would support such a man, and the last 4 years seem to have brought out the very worst in people living in America, have created doubt in NATO and other alliances of whether or not USA is still supporting these alliances, if they will come to the aid of democracies around the world in case of conflicts, since how he's talking about and dealing with dictators suggest to me that he's a really dangerous man, and this is something I've found explained to be true in every single book I've read, and I've read all the books of all the people that have had something to tell from the inside situation in the white house. Law enforcement and intelligence agencies talk about how white supremacy is gaining strength and how right-wing politics now is the NR.1 source of terror-attacks in USA, and the rule of law have caused a lot of those that work for Trump to end up in jail. Generals talk with worry about the current administration. Specially lately how Trump and Giuliani have spread claims of voter fraud and refuse to concede to Joe Biden, the winner of the election, and now also how people have been placed in the pentagon, and there's serious talk of a coup d'état, and that USA is very vulnerable. All around the world leaders have congratulated president-elect Biden, and where I live share jokes about Trump and talk with disbelief about this political figure, and I don't seem to be alone at all to totally failing to understand how it is that he have gotten such an enormous support, and I'm also honestly worried, since I have friends in USA and I worry how they are doing, since it's become a political issue to wear a face-mask and it's really surreal to me to see how people are cheering for a political figure that refuses to do anything to stop the virus, but just let people die, and the number is getting close to a quarter of a million, and still many people think it's a hoax.

The very worst thing for me though is that it is really saddening for me how infiltrated the churches in USA seem to have become by the Republican Party, and that when people talk with disgust about the Trump-administration, they seem to blame Christians (evangelical's - whatever that refer to) and thus blaspheme God, since they look at Christians as hypocrites that might talk of good things, but by supporting Trump are doing something evil. So I've honestly feared the end of days and really think that Trump is making the way for the Anti-Christ. And this make me fear the largest Christian community in the world, and I become confused, and I really feel that my faith is being damaged because I don't want anything at all to do with the type of politics that Trump seem to be about, clearly very far right-wing populism, since I don't see anything good, nothing constructive, and nothing that have anything to do with Christianity in this.

I want to make it very clear that I mean nothing offensive at all by this post. This is extra important for me to make clear, since I had a warning and someone reported me and I was punished with 1 point, and if I get 3 points I'll get banned from CF, and I want to stay here and specially in the prayer section, it's important for me and I need Jesus to remain strong, and perhaps others need me too.

Also I mean nothing offensive toward USA or in general I don't mean anything rude or to be bad, but the main point about this post is to ask and try to understand why Christians would support something that I look at as really un-Christian, something that make people afraid, sad and filled with hopelessness? If you understand me, then I'll do my best to try to understand you. I can only point to how extreme the joy from those that celebrated when Biden/Harris won, and personally I had a bottle of wine to celebrate, it really made me happy, since I really do hope that America can live up to the great expectations the whole world have.

It really is as if I look at a really foreign culture, and I don't understand why people say and do what they say and do with USA and Trump. I hope someone can explain this with simple English and common sense arguments.

Thanks for reading this, and I wish a good weekend for you all, and may God bless you and yours.

 

[Hazelelponi]

If you would watch and consider these 3 videos, after you've watched them in full, I will be happy to tell you why I supported Trump in this bid for presidency and reelection.

Please watch them all...

 

[Albion]

Right...says the guy who thinks that the Gish gallop of lawsuits somehow proves voter fraud.

It's rather that some people are determined to say there is "no evidence" even if they can't know whether there is any or not.

That, of course, is what the situation amounts to. None of the ordinary citizens have the definitive answer to what either side is bringing to the courts, so "hot air" takes its place.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

We may need to clarify our definitions of "clergy." Would you agree that anyone who is "ordained" is a member of the clergy?

Definition of CLERGY

If you believe "Pastor" Paula White is scripturally a "pastor" then you are liberal theologically. Agree or disagree??? And do you or don't you? (Because Trump's Evangelical Advisers are theologically liberal, as "Pastor Paula White" proves).

 

[Hazelelponi]

It's very difficult to know how to ask things or be honest and explain things when people seem to become so very upset about anything that might conflict with their opinions, such as it seem like you become very upset here.

How about explaining these very logical reasons? This is what I myself have problems with, seeing the logic's behind political views such as the one you are suggesting that you have. I really, honestly don't understand this very real Christian or very logical reason for supporting Trump.

Thank you in advance for explaining to me.

That reply was not to you... it was to another poster - who I quoted.

As a beside, don't read emotions into my posts. If I'm posting then I'm not upset or angry, I'm simply making a point in the discussion.

 

[loveofourlord]

It's rather that some people are determined to say there is "no evidence" even if they can't know whether there is any or not.

That, of course, is what the situation amounts to. None of the ordinary citizens have the definitive answer to what either side is bringing to the courts, so "hot air" takes its place.

Given that he's having many MANY of his cases thrown out without being heard, it's blindingly obvious he's just making up stuff to try to over turn the election.

 

[Kenny'sID]

despite how generally in the rest of the world Trump is being viewed as a person

It's often the alternative candidate's that are the decider. Then you have the world view as you say, who may not be able to deal with a biased media, meaning Trump may not be near as bad as they think, and the world may be a bit too gulible, or it's not in their own best interest to like Trump.

 

[Albion]

Given that he's having many MANY of his cases thrown out without being heard, it's blindingly obvious he's just making up stuff to try to over turn the election.

"Blindly obvious" that "he's just making up stuff...."

But go ahead, and tell us which cases you are referring to as "MANY."

 

[loveofourlord]

"Blindly obvious" that "he's just making up stuff...."

But go ahead, and tell us which cases you are referring to as "MANY."

There was 10 thrown out a few days ago, not sure the current count. I would call 10 cases thrown out for being laughably bad not a good start.

 

[Albion]

There was 10 thrown out a few days ago, not sure the current count. I would call 10 cases thrown out for being laughably bad not a good start.

I asked you to identify the cases so we could see for ourselves.

 

[BNR32FAN]

But your not voting for a guy whose pro life either. And that attitude is why the US will continue to be a failed experiment, people don't care about the country or their fellow man or improving, just care about one thing and who cares how terrible things get.

Your not taking into consideration that no politician does what he says he will. They all lie they all cheat they all say whatever it takes to win people over in order to get elected. Show me a politician that’s not crooked and I’ll show you a guy that’s not going to get elected. It’s all a gamble no matter who you choose. The best we can do is go by what the guy says and hope he sticks to it. If anything I think Trump is one of the more honest politicians I’ve seen because he doesn’t seem to care about what people think. He seems to speak his mind most of the time without worrying about being politically correct. Unfortunately we don’t actually get to choose any worthy candidates for president. They’re all worthless in my opinion. When the last election came down to Hillary and Trump I said “great now we have to choose between satan or the antichrist.” Trump surprised me he actually did better than I expected because my expectations were very low for him. When it came down to Trump and Biden I said “well Biden is a complete moron so I’d rather stay with Trump than vote for a complete moron.” So again it pretty much came down to the same basic factor of pro choice or pro life. I can’t support pro choice so I guess I gotta vote for the idiot advocating pro life. Not much of a choice there for me. I don’t want to stand before my God and explain to him why I voted for someone who promoted the killing of innocent babies.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I'm a proponent of reformed doctrine that is highly conservative. We believe in the 5 Solas...

If it's "reformed" it's liberal automatically in that it has broken from Orthodoxy.

We don't dance, dont have rock bands in church (no music at all - all the singing is acappella),

and we arent "charismatic" nor do we have women pastors (although we do believe in the Holy Spirit).

All orthodox Christian denominations are Trinitarian and "believe in the Holy Spirit". What is your point? You say you are not charismatic - do you believe in extra-Biblical prophecies/visions and speaking in tongues?

And my husband, I and many (if not most) of those we know supported a Trump presidency.

Yes, that's my point; you're poltically conservative and theologically liberal.

Putting Trump support into the "bad religion" corner in order to dismiss very real Christian support for very logical reasons is disingenuous at best.

Who said anything about "bad religion"??? You're the one bringing up that term. I only spoke about liberal vs. conservative theology. There is apparently great confusion among politically conservative Christians in that they think because they are politically conservative that they are also theologically conservative. That's just not the case. One doesn't directly impact the other; however, I've noticed that most politically conservative Christians are also theologically liberal - that would describe almost all "Evangelicals". Your description of your church sounds theologically liberal to me. I'll bet it's one of those "casual" churches where people wear their leisure clothes and dress worse than they would dress for their jobs.

 

[Hazelelponi]

If it's "reformed" it's liberal automatically in that it has broken from Orthodoxy.




All orthodox Christian denominations are Trinitarian and "believe in the Holy Spirit". What is your point? You say you are not charismatic - do you believe in extra-Biblical prophecies/visions and speaking in tongues?


Yes, that's my point; you're poltically conservative and theologically liberal.


Who said anything about "bad religion"??? You're the one bringing up that term. I only spoke about liberal vs. conservative theology. There is apparently great confusion among politically conservative Christians in that they think because they are politically conservative that they are also theologically conservative. That's just not the case. One doesn't directly impact the other; however, I've noticed that most politically conservative Christians are also theologically liberal - that would describe almost all "Evangelicals". Your description of your church sounds theologically liberal to me. I'll bet it's one of those "casual" churches where people wear their leisure clothes and dress worse than they would dress for their jobs.

When "Orthodoxy" makes up their own scriptural interpretations as they go, I'll side with the reformers who sought to bring conduct and teachings alongside scriptural truth

What that doesnt make me, is liberal. Liberal changes as they go along. Conservative seeks to follow what is right and true - theologically speaking.

 

[Halbhh]

I've been following the political situation in USA closely and it's been saddening for me to hear about how "evangelical Christians" (whatever that means) are part of the Trump-"base", and seen clips from churches in USA where people seem to be very eager to pray for Trump, despite how generally in the rest of the world Trump is being viewed as a person (to use the words that is commonly used) that lies and have no shame, have tendencies that lean toward authoritarianism, is xenophobic and really racist, rude and vulgar, creates fear, surround himself with only yes-men etc. etc. and have developed (again a word that is commonly used) a sort of cult where people no longer understand reality and believe that when Trump tell them lies then this is the truth. And basically this is the view I got too, I honestly don't understand a thing about why anyone would support such a man, and the last 4 years seem to have brought out the very worst in people living in America, have created doubt in NATO and other alliances of whether or not USA is still supporting these alliances, if they will come to the aid of democracies around the world in case of conflicts, since how he's talking about and dealing with dictators suggest to me that he's a really dangerous man, and this is something I've found explained to be true in every single book I've read, and I've read all the books of all the people that have had something to tell from the inside situation in the white house. Law enforcement and intelligence agencies talk about how white supremacy is gaining strength and how right-wing politics now is the NR.1 source of terror-attacks in USA, and the rule of law have caused a lot of those that work for Trump to end up in jail. Generals talk with worry about the current administration. Specially lately how Trump and Giuliani have spread claims of voter fraud and refuse to concede to Joe Biden, the winner of the election, and now also how people have been placed in the pentagon, and there's serious talk of a coup d'état, and that USA is very vulnerable. All around the world leaders have congratulated president-elect Biden, and where I live share jokes about Trump and talk with disbelief about this political figure, and I don't seem to be alone at all to totally failing to understand how it is that he have gotten such an enormous support, and I'm also honestly worried, since I have friends in USA and I worry how they are doing, since it's become a political issue to wear a face-mask and it's really surreal to me to see how people are cheering for a political figure that refuses to do anything to stop the virus, but just let people die, and the number is getting close to a quarter of a million, and still many people think it's a hoax.

The very worst thing for me though is that it is really saddening for me how infiltrated the churches in USA seem to have become by the Republican Party, and that when people talk with disgust about the Trump-administration, they seem to blame Christians (evangelical's - whatever that refer to) and thus blaspheme God, since they look at Christians as hypocrites that might talk of good things, but by supporting Trump are doing something evil. So I've honestly feared the end of days and really think that Trump is making the way for the Anti-Christ. And this make me fear the largest Christian community in the world, and I become confused, and I really feel that my faith is being damaged because I don't want anything at all to do with the type of politics that Trump seem to be about, clearly very far right-wing populism, since I don't see anything good, nothing constructive, and nothing that have anything to do with Christianity in this.

I want to make it very clear that I mean nothing offensive at all by this post. This is extra important for me to make clear, since I had a warning and someone reported me and I was punished with 1 point, and if I get 3 points I'll get banned from CF, and I want to stay here and specially in the prayer section, it's important for me and I need Jesus to remain strong, and perhaps others need me too.

Also I mean nothing offensive toward USA or in general I don't mean anything rude or to be bad, but the main point about this post is to ask and try to understand why Christians would support something that I look at as really un-Christian, something that make people afraid, sad and filled with hopelessness? If you understand me, then I'll do my best to try to understand you. I can only point to how extreme the joy from those that celebrated when Biden/Harris won, and personally I had a bottle of wine to celebrate, it really made me happy, since I really do hope that America can live up to the great expectations the whole world have.

It really is as if I look at a really foreign culture, and I don't understand why people say and do what they say and do with USA and Trump. I hope someone can explain this with simple English and common sense arguments.

Thanks for reading this, and I wish a good weekend for you all, and may God bless you and yours.

It looks like in much of Europe most non believers (those not believing enough to listen to Christ's words and do them) have left all the churches -- departed.

That's only partly so here in the U.S. Many non believers have left. But only in some churches, not all churches.

Here we have some churches where there isn't enough faith in God to read and know all He has said to us. (pastors that don't care to learn all He said)

That's how you get some churches with many believing in whatever Trump says without proof... (which is called 'faith'; they put faith in Trump(!))

Putting faith in a man is not ok for a believer in God:
Psalm 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, in mortal man, who cannot save.

But worse: Jeremiah 17:5 This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind, who makes the flesh his strength and turns his heart from the LORD.

Trump has talked against, painted that refugees from south of our border are often the worse kind, that only some are 'good' (while in actual reality most of them are good acting; and as a whole they are more law abiding on average than natural born Americans!).

And this year Trump blocked them entirely.

That's opposite to God's will for us:
Leviticus 19:34 You must treat the foreigner living among you as native-born and love him as yourself, for you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Which is still His will for us now: Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets.

Matthew 5:18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

See the situation? -- Those putting faith in Trump are in great peril after this life.

So, it's like we have 2 competing religions practically, here.

 

[Speedwell]

When "Orthodoxy" makes up their own scriptural interpretations as they go, I'll side with the reformers who sought to bring conduct and teachings alongside scriptural truth

What that doesnt make me, is liberal. Liberal changes as they go along. Conservative seeks to follow what is right and true - theologically speaking.

It's hardly "conservative" to embrace 19th century Protestant novelty doctrines like literal inerrancy, perspicuity or the hypertrophied version of Sola Scriptura favored by Evangelicals.