Homosexuality is Slavery!

[AureateDawn]

Hmm... I see one problem here, you're using a circular argument. I asked what kind of harm homosexuality causes that makes it a sin, and you said that it's a sin so it causes harm to a soul. But to say that it causes harm to a soul, you've already made the assumption that it's a sin, and since it's something you're trying to prove, you can't assume it. The logical connection should be like that:

Fact: X causes harm ----> Implication of the fact: X is a sin.

While what you did is more like this:

Assumption: X is a sin -----> Implication of the assumption: X causes harm to a person's soul -----> Implication of the previous implication: X is a sin

Unfortunately, that reasoning "proves" that X is a sin only if you first assume that X is a sin, so it doesn't really prove anything at all...

As for the argument that Christians believed that for 2000 years... it doesn't mean that they were correct about it. There have been beliefs in the history of humanity that lasted much more than 2000 years, but still were eventually shown to be false... such as flat Earth.

Please forgive me for the circular argument I made. I am really no good at debating or any such. But basically, I don't know what else to say. You either believe it is a sin and trust 2,000 years of Holy Tradition, or you do not. =/

You can of course free to believe what you believe, I can respect that. I dont think the comparsion between alchoholism and homosexuality is a fair one as once more alchoholism harms people physically and can lead them to harm others, theres a reason for it being resisted. It damages people. Homosexuality dosent.

But how? How exactly does homosexuality harm someone? Why is it a sin, Im afraid "because the Bible possibly says" is not a good reason, nearly all sin has rational, realistic reasons why its wrong. Homosexuality dosent. At all.

As for self identity, I think its an important thing, im happy to say I'm gay or homosexual or whatever as my relationship is a big part of my life. Just like a hetrosexual will say "I'm married" for example.

Sure I agree, Gods love is amazing! But if we werent mean to love others we wouldnt have the capacity for romantic love in the first place and it wouldnt be such a wonderful joy filled emotion. On earth our interactions and relationships with others are a core part of our time here, and for people who dont want to miss out on a romantic relationship to miss out on due to their sexuality is a very grave thing.

When I first read the Bible I never saw any mention of homosexuality. It was only when my mother pointed out the evil gays because of her interpretation I did. Even then I thought the verses were ropey.. and they really are.. 4-5 verses? The world homosexual mentioned twice and the word only first appearing in the late 19th century? "Mastobaters" being used in earliar versions instead of the word homosexual? Its pretty ropey. At best. It ccertainly never speaks of monogamous homosexuality.

Im aware its not proven, its just what I believe. Under your interpreation if one is gay and cannot be celibate theyre surely destined for hell, hardly seems fair in the context of what Paul says. Hardly the instructions of a just God. Which is why I feel my interpreatation makes more sense.

The man united with women thing is another odd one, one can assume in Biblical times the readers of the Bible were all hetrosexual men by presumably hetrosexual men, so one could argue it was written to the majority. It never says "only man and woman" ever, incidentally.

My general point was that society becomes more enlightened and when it becomes more sympathetic and acknowledges the plight of others thats a good thing. The same imho applies to the church, and I hope in time that gay people will be accepted in more and more churches freely, even when in a relationship. Its gradually happening a lot more here in the UK for example.

Again I disagree, even the most secular humanist will say murder is bad, rape is bad. Non-theists can be a damn site more moral than Christians in the way they treat others (in my experience). Dosent it strike you odd that almost all sin has a obvious damage it does (or can cause) to a person or others physical or emotional and monogamous homosexuality and hetrosexuality are the only things that don't sexual sin wise?

I will first respond to the last 2 paragraphs. This idea of society becoming more enlightened as it progresses is, again, a terribly Western, terrible recent, and terribly wrong notion. It takes out God and throws in man in place of God by saying "Hey, we are smart and we can progress to the point of Enlightenment."

I am not saying that atheists do not see things such as murder and rape as bad. But without God, without a set moralistic code that isn't defined by current trends and a nation's culture, there is no reason to do good.

The rest of your post I see as "I interpret this this way, you interpret it that way, I think my interpretation makes more sense." And this, imho, is what pretty much every theological argument comes down to. I am an Orthodox Christian. Thus, I believe in One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The Bible is the center focus of the Church, it is held in primacy, but we get our teachings from Holy Saints, Icons, Church Fathers, and Holy Tradition (distinct from traditions of men). The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. Many people interpret things many ways, each claiming to have the Holy Spirit guiding them. But there can only be one Truth. So what I see this coming down to is a matter of Bible interpretations and believe in Sola Scriptura (aka "Bible only"). Thus, I'm not really sure what more I can offer only using the Bible as the Word of God left to each individual's interpretation. =/

Love in Christ,
Justin

 

[KCKID]

Ah Polycarp:- I got to the bit when you said "Which God?" and stopped reading,

THIS is the infuriating thing about those who ARROGANTLY BELIEVE that they hold an exalted position of authority by virtue of the fact that THEY - and not YOU - have God in their lives and therefore can speak for Him. God must absolutely cringe at times ...if God DOES in fact cringe.

In ACTUALITY many of these 'saints' worship the print from a book but lack the 'heart' message of Christianity. God is - or is not - in the heart, NOT in a book for heaven's sake! You must NOT let these type people get you down, HaloHope. They are NOT necessarily representatives of God and, who knows, YOU might be more in touch with God than they are. Now, wouldn't THAT be a blow to their sanctimonious egos!?

I suspect that Polycarp has some inner issues that he hasn't yet learned to deal with. That much is evident. And, I believe, they involve the very issue that we're discussing. I'll probably be back later to address a couple of matters in regard to one or two of his posts.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Ah Polycarp:- I got to the bit when you said "Which God?" and stopped reading, im not going to have any discussion with someone who can be so offensive in a conversation, you can question my beliefs all you want but when you stoop that low you forfeit any right to a proper debate. How dare you.

I didnt "dare" anything.

This is the: Debates on Homosexuality Subforum in Christian Philosophy & Ethics specific for the discussion/debate of homosexuality.

My question and questioning was appropriate.

Your decision is based on not wanting to debate your view of homosexuality and its appropriateness within Christian life.

Since you disregard Jesus on marriage and the Apostolic witness on sexual morality for Christians, my question was fact based and quite appropriate.

Read what Jude has to say about it.

How dare you promote gay life? I have every right to question what it is you worship and how.

You wanted an avoidance and you manufactured one. Typical knee-jerk reaction of one trained in the gay agenda.

A Christian is taught to give to every man an answer for the faith they hold.

Oh and glancing down your post.. why on earth would I care about Sappho at all? I'm my own person.

Lesbians label themselves after this Lesbos Island poet. Although, starngely enough, she was "married to a man and had a child by him. Her life ended over a love she had for a younger man.

I am glad you've chosen to distance yourself from the idea of her.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

THIS is the infuriating thing about those who ARROGANTLY BELIEVE that they hold an exalted position of authority by virtue of the fact that THEY - and not YOU - have God in their lives and therefore can speak for Him. God must absolutely cringe at times ...if God DOES in fact cringe.

In ACTUALITY many of these 'saints' worship the print from a book but lack the 'heart' message of Christianity. God is - or is not - in the heart, NOT in a book for heaven's sake! You must NOT let these type people get you down, HaloHope. They are NOT necessarily representatives of God and, who knows, YOU might be more in touch with God than they are. Now, wouldn't THAT be a blow to their sanctimonious egos!?

I suspect that Polycarp has some inner issues that he hasn't yet learned to deal with. That much is evident. And, I believe, they involve the very issue that we're discussing. I'll probably be back later to address a couple of matters in regard to one or two of his posts.

Oh please KC, please go with the common ploy of gay activists to drive away having to be accountable for their choices, by using the "self-loathing gay guy" routine on me. When that won't work, you have the trolling and homophobe tactics to use still.

But before you go to such rote lengths, please provide the gay sex promoting scriptures in the New Testament that I have been asking you and the other gay sex promting people for, since I arrived here?

Or better yet, please tell me how God, could change marriage, that Jesus claimed was immutably man and woman? And you do know that "we" (Christians) are not to worship man made things?

Go with your personal opinion if you want to and leave your Bible closed.

I have to catch my flight to Topeka, Kansas. I don't want to miss Bible study with Pastor Fred Phelps. I'm on my way to ask him how he can claim to be a Christian and "hate" anyone.

Does that make me a self-loathing Pastor too?

PS I'm confident, arrogance is not applicable to me. I'm hoping you weren't applying that label to me.

 

[HaloHope]

In ACTUALITY many of these 'saints' worship the print from a book but lack the 'heart' message of Christianity. God is - or is not - in the heart, NOT in a book for heaven's sake! You must NOT let these type people get you down, HaloHope. They are NOT necessarily representatives of God and, who knows, YOU might be more in touch with God than they are. Now, wouldn't THAT be a blow to their sanctimonious egos!?

Its ok KC I don't let it get me down in the slightest, what I've learnt for myself already in life is that various individuals often want to push people away from God. It worked on me once, but I realized it was the people who pushed me away and not God (eventually) and I came back.

 

[HaloHope]

I will first respond to the last 2 paragraphs. This idea of society becoming more enlightened as it progresses is, again, a terribly Western, terrible recent, and terribly wrong notion. It takes out God and throws in man in place of God by saying "Hey, we are smart and we can progress to the point of Enlightenment."

The thing is though as the Bible is written by men and men are fallible I see that as what happened when the Bible was written originally too. Yes, it chronicles what I believe to be historic facts, it has parables, wise words etc... But I cannot treat it as infallible. What I do believe the Bible to be is a stepping stone to a full relationship with the Trinity, though prayer and worship and time with God.

I am not saying that atheists do not see things such as murder and rape as bad. But without God, without a set moralistic code that isn't defined by current trends and a nation's culture, there is no reason to do good.

But there is.. in times when Ive not been Christian Ive not gone on killing sprees, why? Because its HORRIBLE to do so. Human beings do have a base morality deep-set in them even if they have no faith and I dont think "getting into heaven" should ever be our motivation for not going on killing sprees, if it is a persons motivation, they have serious issues. Our motivation for not harming others should be simply caused by a desire to want to let everyone share this wonderful exsistance without suffering.

The rest of your post I see as "I interpret this this way, you interpret it that way, I think my interpretation makes more sense." And this, imho, is what pretty much every theological argument comes down to. I am an Orthodox Christian. Thus, I believe in One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The Bible is the center focus of the Church, it is held in primacy, but we get our teachings from Holy Saints, Icons, Church Fathers, and Holy Tradition (distinct from traditions of men). The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. Many people interpret things many ways, each claiming to have the Holy Spirit guiding them. But there can only be one Truth. So what I see this coming down to is a matter of Bible interpretations and believe in Sola Scriptura (aka "Bible only"). Thus, I'm not really sure what more I can offer only using the Bible as the Word of God left to each individual's interpretation. =/

Love in Christ,
Justin

It isnt really going to go anywhere your right, but its been a good discussion. Neither of us will change the others mind, but at least we can perhaps grow to understand the others viewpoint a little more. I wish you all the best in your endevours to live a celibate life, and as long as your happy thats all I could ask.

God Bless!

 

[KCKID]

Oh my. isn't this fun?

Oh please KC, please go with the common ploy of gay activists to drive away having to be accountable for their choices, by using the "self-loathing gay guy" routine on me. When that won't work, you have the trolling and homophobe tactics to use still.

The part of your post that HaloHope was addressing and that I responded to accordingly was in regard to your sanctimonious remark about "which God?" That was totally unnecessary and was also most offensive.

But before you go to such rote lengths, please provide the gay sex promoting scriptures in the New Testament that I have been asking you and the other gay sex promting people for, since I arrived here?

There are no scriptures I know of that promote 'gay' sex. The same 'ommission of scripture' can be made pertaining to the major mainstream Christian belief that the command to keep God's Creation Sabbath holy was abbrogated by 'who knows who' and replaced with Sunday observation. This means that there are no longer Ten Commandments but nine. To tamper with/get rid of a command of God pertaining to a day that He blessed, sanctified, and set aside at Creation is tantamount to blasphemy. I would think that 'gay sex' pales in significance to that of out-and-out blasphemy that is okayed by the mainstrean Christian Church.

So, please don't get cute, Polcarp_fan. The ommission of promoting 'gay' sex in the Bible proves nothing or something depending on one's slant on the issue.

Or better yet, please tell me how God, could change marriage, that Jesus claimed was immutably man and woman?

The same as He 'changed' the Sabbath to Sunday, I guess. The Sabbath is/was intended as a memorial to Creation FOR EVER. THAT means immutable, Polycarp-fan. Your use of that term for marriage between man and woman is just that ...YOUR term. It isn't scriptural.

And you do know that "we" (Christians) are not to worship man made things?

You mean man-made things like the Bible?

Go with your personal opinion if you want to and leave your Bible closed.

I often make decisions in life without consulting the Bible, Polycarp_fan. You know why? Because God gave me the most valuable asset that I could possibly have ...the use of my brain with which to think and to reason.

I have to catch my flight to Topeka, Kansas. I don't want to miss Bible study with Pastor Fred Phelps. I'm on my way to ask him how he can claim to be a Christian and "hate" anyone.

Does that make me a self-loathing Pastor too?

I have no idea. It's YOUR story.

PS I'm confident, arrogance is not applicable to me. I'm hoping you weren't applying that label to me.

Why, are you going to sue me? You 'arrogantly' implied that the God of HaloHope is demonic. Or did you say that because you're 'confident' that the God of HaloHope is demonic? If the shoe fits, wear it.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Oh my. isn't this fun?

Yes. Sometimes its like a sport. May God forgive me, but it is fun to see the kinds of people that Lot dealt with walking around and talking today. Well, doing a whole lot more than talking.

The part of your post that HaloHope was addressing and that I responded to accordingly was in regard to your sanctimonious remark about "which God?" That was totally unnecessary and was also most offensive.

Since "gay sex" in the Bible is always connected to pagan religious rites, I was also respnding accordingly. I don't use questions questioning my stand with God as an excuse not to answer questions. The "oh-so downtrodden" gay tactic is nothing new. Since the Bible IS very clear about sexual morality, my question should have been answered "accordingly." But she took the knee-jerk reaction tactic and ran with it.

So much for gay apologia. It always boils down to emotionalism trumping reality.

There are no scriptures I know of that promote 'gay' sex. The same 'ommission of scripture' can be made pertaining to the major mainstream Christian belief that the command to keep God's Creation Sabbath holy was abbrogated by 'who knows who' and replaced with Sunday observation.

Gathering on the first day of the week to celebrate Jesus is far from violating the Sabbath. And Jesus DID deal with Sabbath zeal, and put that in its proper place as well.

Though, if you notice you are comparing to wrongs. Rememebr your kindergarten lessons? Act accordingly. Logic and the Bible are always friends.

This means that there are no longer Ten Commandments but nine.

I have agreed with your sound Biblical exegesis on the sabbath commandment. Now see the one about honoring your parents? Can't do that in a same-sex marriage. Notice it says "mother and father."

To tamper with/get rid of a command of God pertaining to a day that He blessed, sanctified, and set aside at Creation is tantamount to blasphemy.

It is error maybe. But God desires mercy too right? And where is the blasphemy of celebrating Jesus on ANY day let alone on the first day of the week?

I would think that 'gay sex' pales in significance to that of out-and-out blasphemy that is okayed by the mainstrean Christian Church.

Are you trying to prove gay sex is OK for Christians by using this analogy?

So, please don't get cute, Polcarp_fan. The ommission of promoting 'gay' sex in the Bible proves nothing or something depending on one's slant on the issue.

But as we both know, gay sex is not ignored "in the Bible." It is not approved of. "It" is to be repented of. You'll notice Jesus was not silent on defending those around Him for "violating" the Sabbath. His preaching on marriage speaks volumes on proper sex for believers as well.

The same as He 'changed' the Sabbath to Sunday, I guess.

Your attempts here are applaudable, but if you are going for orthodoxy, realize YOU have just eliminated gays from the Church. I want them there but the same as everyone else. On ANY day of the week sir. I don't support or promote gay sex for Christians. Anyone can be a Christian if they choose Christ Jesus as their Lord and savior. You can try all the tricks on me you want to, but I am not demanding anything other than what Jesus and the Apostles taught that Christians should do.

The Sabbath is/was intended as a memorial to Creation FOR EVER. THAT means immutable, Polycarp-fan. Your use of that term for marriage between man and woman is just that ...YOUR term. It isn't scriptural.

According to Jesus, my "term" for "marriage" is what God said it is. I'm just agreeing with God.

You mean man-made things like the Bible?

Bibles may be rinted by people, but the origin of the words are from God. Remember "the Word of God?" It, became flesh and dwelt among us. Your idea of an anything goes religion is based of course on personal feelings. The reason for your disdain for the Bible I'm sure.

I often make decisions in life without consulting the Bible, Polycarp_fan.

Hmm, I'm thinking, sexually, you don;t need the Bible for seeing what is right and what is wrong. And, many other places as well. The common sense in the Bible does not need to opened at all for one to know the truth. Reality is always going to point the way to God.

You know why? Because God gave me the most valuable asset that I could possibly have ...the use of my brain with which to think and to reason.

The greatest monsters in the history of mankind used a similar starting point for their choices as well.

I have no idea. It's YOUR story.

Please, I didn't desire to cut you off from using the "self-loathing gay guy" routine. Please fire away, fire for effect. But it shows that "anyone" can be forgiven. Isn't Paul also accused of being a self-loathing gay guy? Hold on, I'll google that . . .

It took o.23 seconds to come up with this: http://www.gayheroes.com/paul.htm Paul, of course, a self-loathing gay guy.

Why, are you going to sue me? You 'arrogantly' implied that the God of HaloHope is demonic.

You know how important "the Bible" is to we Christians. I just asked an appropriate question. I do the same thing when a starger says "Bless you" after I sneeze. Christians are not to yoke theslves to unbelievers. Questioning a persons "God" is nothing inappropriate at all.

Or did you say that because you're 'confident' that the God of HaloHope is demonic?

I am confident of what the Apostles did and why they did it. Nothing haughty in my position. I am a sinner with no congenitalm excuse for my sins. Totally opposite of the gay position.

I am not certain which God she follows. All I know is that EVEN in gay theology, gay sex follows pagan religious rites. Secular and biblical history agree. I asked a question and even the Apostles showed that she sould have answered it. They always did. But, I realize how unimportant the Biblical record is to you and her.

{quote]If the shoe fits, wear it.[/quote]

I won't wear pumps.

It's a Christian thing.

You know, I could show many places where "Gays" could "fit" into The Chruch, but "they" wouldn't like the size of it. I see "them" as one of us. But alas, they do not.

One cannot promote sin and sinning and fit into the Church, but a contrite spirit, well that is an easy fit. In fact it is the only size one can wear "as a Christian."

It's a son of David thing.

 

[AureateDawn]

God Bless!

It certainly has been interesting discussion! May God always have mercy on, bless, and keep you!

 

[Polycarp_fan]

KCKID,

HaloHope wrote this:

My general point was that society becomes more enlightened and when it becomes more sympathetic and acknowledges the plight of others thats a good thing. The same imho applies to the church, and I hope in time that gay people will be accepted in more and more churches freely, even when in a relationship. Its gradually happening a lot more here in the UK for example.

What happens to the Christians that don't "feely" accept gay sex being promoted in the Church?

What we see happening in Britain, is schism and secular civil rights laws attacking the Church. What will happen to Christians that stand their ground as the Christians did in the first century Church?

As we see from reality, society is not becoming more enlightened, but more debauched. Especially in Europe.

What will people like HaloHope do to Christians that desire the Church the way the Jesus and Apostles oriented it to be?

 

[KCKID]

What will people like HaloHope do to Christians that desire the Church the way the Jesus and Apostles oriented it to be?

Just a 'quickie'. You HONESTLY BELIEVE that the Christian 'Church' of today (made up of umpteen hundreds of different denominations each disagreeing with one another) is the way Jesus and the Apostles oriented it to be?

Would you tell me when you find such a 'Church', Polycarp_fan?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Just a 'quickie'. You HONESTLY BELIEVE that the Christian 'Church' of today (made up of umpteen hundreds of different denominations each disagreeing with one another) is the way Jesus and the Apostles oriented it to be?

There are core beliefs that make one a Christian. There are false beliefs that make one not a Christian. The Apostles detailed what it is to be a Christian, and they detailed how to see when a person is not a Christian. It always exists where the fundamentals of the faith are altered.

I have been to "worship" events with tens of thousands of Christians, and there was unity of believers. Undoubtedly as with the Apostles themselves, there were non and/or unbelievers in those crowds.

Would you tell me when you find such a 'Church', Polycarp_fan?

There is only one Church catholic (universal). That is a fact. I have been in many different Churches, that go by many different "denominational" names. When it comes down to core beliefs, nothing was different.

There is not much of the Christian faith in "liberal" Churches that have ejected those core beliefs. Once the scriptures are of no importance, all else crumbles accordingly, and you arrive at false teachings such as gay marriage and other "anything goes" beliefs that seem to follow hand in hand.

That is why "Christians" are taught the "fundamentals" of the faith by the Apostles. "On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand, I will not be moved."

An old hymn, a new pop song. Same old immutable truth. There is only one Church.

Why do you think that Apostolic truth can be jettisoned for some social/cultural fad of the late 20th century and early 21st century of the so-called gay rights activist? Why would a Christian care what a person that desires homosexual sex chooses, as long as they keep their single purpose secular/social desires where they belong?

Hopefully, you do know that this "gay," liberal, and progressive ideological plague on the Church is nothing new.

Our cellphones and personal computers cannot alter the truth of God.

 

[xameni]

THIS is the infuriating thing about those who ARROGANTLY BELIEVE that they hold an exalted position of authority by virtue of the fact that THEY - and not YOU - have God in their lives and therefore can speak for Him. God must absolutely cringe at times ...if God DOES in fact cringe.

Like what? A church based on a 2,000 tradition... and having the true message which is based on the Bible can be wrong? Give me a break... Or that those who live the faith daily as the monastics are ALL wrong? They have "conquered" the word and its wordly ways...We have not. WE are still struggling to find out the truth. They already have arrived by virtue of their faith. The Lord said we have to deny ourselves and our selfish ways and pick up the cross... He fought the passions he did not become a slave of the passions. Just because to live a true Christian life is hard that does not mean you have to "compromise" your standards to make it easier... Acknowledging one's stuggle and accepting it is what it means to be a Christian. Sturggle is part of what we are to be doing as Christians. There is no such a thing as a "comfortable" Christian.

In ACTUALITY many of these 'saints' worship the print from a book but lack the 'heart' message of Christianity. God is - or is not - in the heart, NOT in a book for heaven's sake! You must NOT let these type people get you down, HaloHope. They are NOT necessarily representatives of God and, who knows, YOU might be more in touch with God than they are. Now, wouldn't THAT be a blow to their sanctimonious egos!?

Saints are/were people like you and me. They strived more than us and struggled more than us ...They rightfully earned their trophy in their faith and struggle for Christ. They are not people of pride rather the world and the evil one tries to cut them down and present them as such....Sad that people do not have any postitive role models today other than pop idols and Hollywood....

 

[catlover]

Like what? A church based on a 2,000 tradition... and having the true message which is based on the Bible can be wrong? Give me a break... Or that those who live the faith daily as the monastics are ALL wrong? They have "conquered" the word and its wordly ways...We have not. WE are still struggling to find out the truth. They already have arrived by virtue of their faith. The Lord said we have to deny ourselves and our selfish ways and pick up the cross... He fought the passions he did not become a slave of the passions. Just because to live a true Christian life is hard that does not mean you have to "compromise" your standards to make it easier... Acknowledging one's stuggle and accepting it is what it means to be a Christian. Sturggle is part of what we are to be doing as Christians. There is no such a thing as a "comfortable" Christian.

Saints are/were people like you and me. They strived more than us and struggled more than us ...They rightfully earned their trophy in their faith and struggle for Christ. They are not people of pride rather the world and the evil one tries to cut them down and present them as such....Sad that people do not have any postitive role models today other than pop idols and Hollywood....

Somethings that happened or that were practiced 2000 years ago should be left in the past.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

PS I'm confident, arrogance is not applicable to me. I'm hoping you weren't applying that label to me.

Bang!

I just heard tulc's irony meter explode AGAIN!

 

[OllieFranz]

Bang!

I just heard tulc's irony meter explode AGAIN!

I see you've learned to keep your own irony meter out of range when visiting this forum. Lucky for tulc he's good at repairing his.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

I see you've learned to keep your own irony meter out of range when visiting this forum. Lucky for tulc he's good at repairing his.

Oh - mine keeps exploding alright.
I'm just not as good at fixin' it...
CT (thinks maybe coffee has something to do with tulc's powers)

 

[xameni]

Somethings that happened or that were practiced 2000 years ago should be left in the past.

that is hardly an answer....

Human nature changes?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Somethings that happened or that were practiced 2000 years ago should be left in the past.

That is a creepy yet defining statement "for our times."

Not marriage though. Also, gay sex "for believers" was opposed for good reasons by the Apostles.

The world and its ways has embraced gay sex, the world and its ways does not trump the Church on anything.

Jesus and the Apostles disagree with your position on many things that have now been forced into the Church, that they fought against and gave their lives for. Jesus said that there would be people that would alter the faith for personal feelings and false teachings "Wolves in sheep's clothing, NOT sparing the flock." The Apostles expounded on that reality. It was the cause for their writing what they did.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Oh - mine keeps exploding alright.
I'm just not as good at fixin' it...

CT (thinks maybe coffee has something to do with tulc's powers)

Lot's neighbors must have left lesson plans that survived the desolation of abomination.

You two are following them on target.

It's fascinating, seeing how gays and theoir supporters must braek down every opposition by derailing and mocking. Or even claiming they are expatriates (so to speak) denying where they came from and where they should stay.

Distinctly non Christian these gay positions, but nothing new.

Ollie, Chalice, tulc, don't you think your private messages should be private messages. This is a debate/discussion thread of a substance other than mockery.