Heretical teachings of the Seventh Day Adventists

[Setyoufree]

Maybe you should read Heb 11 sometime.

Maybe you should try glasses.....

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan,

I feel you are wasting your time....scratch isn't interested in a discussion. .

You are probably right about that. My intent was never to come to this thread and defend 28 different doctrines. My first idea was not to post at all - since if anyone had a serious interest beyond a random smattering of accusations - they could start an actual thread on the subject.

But I saw an opportunity to post a few links and get at least one of the rumors contrasted with actual published fact, when it comes to the Trinity.

I appreciate your posts. But as you say - I am not here to silence complaints or any-ol-excuse-name-calling.

They may engage in that all they wish without me.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[from scratch]

In my copy they are in the appendix. And the preface reads as is posted on this thread.

Also in mine - Appendix "B" to be exact. Appendix A is one cult and Appendix C is another thus in the cult section.

 

[Setyoufree]

BobRyan,

I feel you are wasting your time....scratch isn't interested in a discussion. He has proclaimed that he is righteous....He has proclaimed that he has holy flesh. He's self-deceived....

The teaching given in regard to what is termed “holy flesh” is an error. All may now obtain holy hearts (minds), but it is not correct to claim in this life to have holy flesh. The apostle Paul declares, “I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing”. Rom 7:17. To those who have tried so hard to obtain by faith so called holy flesh, I would say, you can not obtain it. Not a soul of you has Holy flesh now. No human being on earth has holy flesh. It is an impossibility. . . ." [Ellen White]​

 

[from scratch]

Just as Abraham sees "3 men" walking toward him and later finds that one of them is God and the other 2 are Angels. The fact that they can appear in a "form" that is not blazing glory or that God the Son can manifest himself physically so that Abraham sees him looking like "a man" does not make God less God - because He can do such things.

The Jehovah's Witnesses I have studied with never consider that a version of how they view Michael or Christ.

And of course there is the obvious point that the statement about Michael is not one of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs - and never has been.

in Christ,

Bob

Do you want to discuss that? Present the passage and I will be delighted.

 

[from scratch]

What I have posted comes directly from those links - and those links are hosted by the SDA world headquarters for that denomination. It does not get any more official than that.

You say you have a mission to "dig up dirt" -- carry on.

I am not here to stop those looking for dirt.

=========================================

"One God in THREE persons blessed Trinity" -- The Triune Godhead.

Fundamental Belief #2

There is one God—Father, Son and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration and service by all of creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)


Fundamental Belief #4 God the Son.

God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God's power and was attested as God's promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19; John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.)

Please quote me saying so. Thanks.

 

[from scratch]

If you weren't indwelt by your bent to self (iniquity) then you would be without sin.

I left a local SDA church back in 1997. Most them had a self-righteous attitude too. One thing I've found out is other Christians are just as self-righteous if not more so....You would make a good traditional SDA. In fact you would make an excellent Pharisee.

Anyone who states that they are without sin and are free of their nature is under the control of Satan. They are self-deceived. Again, see 1 John 1:8

You're invited to prove my bent to sin. My nature has changed and I never dwell on what I can't or am forbidden to do as you say.

 

[Setyoufree]

Present the passage and I will be delighted.

I don't believe you....I've presented many passages, but you just dismiss them.....

Paul clearly states that when Christ died to the law YOU died in Him. See Rom 7:4 It doesn't say your body died....It doesn't say your soul lived on. Paul states that YOU (the whole person) died in the humanity of Christ.

So this nonsense (legalism) that the spirit is holy and the body evil is a heresy.

Paul states that the whole man (in this case the converted man) has nothing good in his humanity:
Romans 7:18 For I (the person) know that nothing good dwells in me, (the person) that is, in my http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/romans/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-34flesh (my fallen humanity) "

 

[Setyoufree]

You're invited to prove my bent to sin.

You mean bent-to-self? That's iniquity.

Okay, if you really love your neighbor (me) as you love yourself, then sell all you have and send a check to me. And please don't tell me your poor because you have something unless you are living off the charity of others.....

Waiting.....

 

[from scratch]

BobRyan,

I feel you are wasting your time....scratch isn't interested in a discussion. He has proclaimed that he is righteous....He has proclaimed that he has holy flesh. He's self-deceived....

And that is exactly what the Bible says. I don't have to struggle with sin. Many of the things most are bothered with never have bothered me much and less all the time. I'm so very sorry to hear that you seem to refuse to lay claim to what the New Covenant provides giving rest to my soul carrying no burdens. Mat 11:28-30. You can carry a load if you want.

 

[from scratch]

Maybe you should try glasses.....

Thick ones or filled ones?

 

[from scratch]

The teaching given in regard to what is termed “holy flesh” is an error. All may now obtain holy hearts (minds), but it is not correct to claim in this life to have holy flesh. The apostle Paul declares, “I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing”. Rom 7:17. To those who have tried so hard to obtain by faith so called holy flesh, I would say, you can not obtain it. Not a soul of you has Holy flesh now. No human being on earth has holy flesh. It is an impossibility. . . ." [Ellen White]​

So why is it tried?

 

[LarryP2]

SDAs may be considered "Orthdox" because of their belief in the Holy Trinity

They are not trustworthy enough to be depended on to articulate a truthful version of their doctrines. It is a deceitful cult that is shot through with willful deception from one end to another. If they believe in anything, it is "Tri-theism," which is a watered down version of the Arian heresy, all slicked up for multi-media presentation.

CultOrChristian.com - Does Seventh-day Adventism Teach the Trinity?

The cult taught outright the Arianism heresy for over 100 years after its founding. Even then, the "Present Truth" about what they believed was determined by the most efficient way of deceiving someone they found it necessary to defraud.

 

[Setyoufree]

You mean bent-to-self? That's iniquity.

Okay, if you really love your neighbor (me) as you love yourself, then sell all you have and send a check to me. And please don't tell me your poor because you have something unless you are living off the charity of others.....

Waiting.....

There was another holy Joe in the Bible who claimed to be without sin. He is found in Matt 19:17-21

He came up to Jesus and asked, "what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"

Being legalistic and self-righteous, Jesus answered him:

"If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Then the Holy Joe said to Him, "Which ones ?"

And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY ; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL ; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS ; 19 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER ; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept ; what am I still lacking ?"

So in the eyes of this holy Joe he was a good man and without sin.

But wait, Jesus presents to this holy Joe a test to see if his claims to righteousness are real:

21 Jesus said to him,

"If you wish to be perfect, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor"

Well, the story ends in the holy Joe keeping his wealth.

Why?

He loved himself, proving he was a sinner!!!!

 

[from scratch]

I don't believe you....I've presented many passages, but you just dismiss them.....

Paul clearly states that when Christ died to the law YOU died in Him. See Rom 7:4 It doesn't say your body died....It doesn't say your soul lived on. Paul states that YOU (the whole person) died in the humanity of Christ.

So this nonsense (legalism) that the spirit is holy and the body evil is a heresy.

Paul states that the whole man (in this case the converted man) has nothing good in his humanity:
Romans 7:18 For I (the person) know that nothing good dwells in me, (the person) that is, in my http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/romans/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-34flesh (my fallen humanity) "

Paul said nothing about my physical body.

So why are you demanding it is my body that died? This certainly isn't true as my soul commands my body to type this statement.

It isn't my body that rules or runs my soul. And just like Paul sometimes my body wins in the physical sense. I think James says this is when one sins. Yep there's a holy war raging just like Paul said.

One of the problems I face constantly is I operate on a different level than most people. I'm not like the crowd. I'm not bothered much with the same temptations they are either. Most people can't believe I see them as person and females as sexual objects to be consumed.

 

[LarryP2]

SDAs have, thereby, made Sabbath-keeping a criterion for a personal relationship with the Lord -- even to the extent of one's salvation! Why? Because, according to SDAs, we are all to be under strict adherence to Old Testament Law, including the Ten Commandments, of which the fourth one says, "keep the Sabbath." (This Sabbath-keeping requirement was supposedly confirmed in a vision received by Ellen G. White, rather than by study of the Bible.) SDAs believe that "Sunday-keeping" will be the mark of the beast in the future.

You have severely understated the depth of satanic heresy and deception involved in just this one doctrine. By my calculation, it is based on no less than 25 major historical deceptions; at least 25 demonstrably false predictions of the future; and massive plagiarizing on a truly sickening and monumental level. The foundation of it is based on a plainly deceitful treatment of the overall theme of both the Old and New Testaments, and dishonest interpretations of plainly-worded texts that condemn this "Judaizing" heresy. The founding textbook of Adventism The Great Controversy is a tissue of fraud and historical deceit from one end to another. And to top it all off: Ellen White was a pathological liar, serial literary thief, and a laughably incompetent predictor of the future.

And I have only just begun listing the fraud of just ONE doctrine....If truth were known, it would probably be fairly easy to compile a list of over 1000 thousand lies holding up just this one doctrine.

One of the big issues here is that Walter Martin wrote his treatment on the cult before the bombshell revelations of Ellen White's false prophecies and plagiarism hit in the 1980s. Before the cult's own leading theologians demolished the Sabbath doctrine, the Investigative Judgment hoax, and the 2300 days false prophecy that is the foundation of the Church from 1844.

He died in 1983.

 

[from scratch]

You mean bent-to-self? That's iniquity.

Okay, if you really love your neighbor (me) as you love yourself, then sell all you have and send a check to me. And please don't tell me your poor because you have something unless you are living off the charity of others.....

Waiting.....

What is this bent-to-self stuff you're talking about? Do you mean I work only for someone else leaving nothing for me? Didn't Paul say something about those who won't work - don't eat? Today I sold some goods for $5 that I should have charged more than $70. Yep that's out right plain selfish. Am I bragging? No! I provided service to a group of people today without seeking compensation? Is that self seeking and selfish? Could I have done more? Yes. Why should I? How much is enough? I notice the pro law people's consuming desire to condemn. Why do you suppose this seems to be a fact? It happens very often. It can't be coincidence.

 

[Setyoufree]

They are not trustworthy enough to be depended on to articulate a truthful version of their doctrines..

People in glass homes shouldn't throw stones.

Adventism has its problems, but so does your denomination. Legalism is everywhere....

However, I learned the gospel (the good news) form two SDA Pastors:

Jack Sequeira and Morris Venden.

In fact the SDA church has within it the complete & restored gospel. I never heard the gospel outside the SDA church.

Of course there are many factions within the church and the majority, the Traditional/historic Adventists, drown out men like Jack & Morris. So not all SDA are true SDA.

It was the same with Israel of old. Listen to Paul:

Rom 9:1 I speak the truth in Christ--I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit-- 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4 the people of Israel.....6 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

 

[Setyoufree]

Paul said nothing about my physical body.

Paul states that YOU (the whole person) died in Christ.....Why? You are rotten from head to foot. You had to be redeemed in Christ.

 

[from scratch]

There was another holy Joe in the Bible who claimed to be without sin. He is found in Matt 19:17-21

He came up to Jesus and asked, "what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"

Being legalistic and self-righteous, Jesus answered him:

"If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Then the Holy Joe said to Him, "Which ones ?"

And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY ; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL ; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS ; 19 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER ; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept ; what am I still lacking ?"

So in the eyes of this holy Joe he was a good man and without sin.

But wait, Jesus presents to this holy Joe a test to see if his claims to righteousness are real:

21 Jesus said to him,

"If you wish to be perfect, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor"

Well, the story ends in the holy Joe keeping his wealth.

Why?

He loved himself, proving he was a sinner!!!!

Yep and Jesus didn't say he fibbed did He? So why didn't the man leave rejoicing knowing he had eternal life?

Doesn't the Bible say love your neighbor as yourself? So how is loving yourself a sin? I think you're very mixed up.