Galatians 2:16

[guevaraj]

Just read the whole verse, and go ahead and use "but" or "except" it doesn't change the meaning.

Brother, a false translation forces the lie that we do nothing when a faithful translation reminds us to do our part, trusting in God to do His part. Paul does not have a different message when he expects us to follow the model "Spirit" of Jesus instead of the popular wrong view of the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the good works God has given us to do from the beginning to gain mastery over sin.

But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil (not knowing they were disobeying the Ten Commandments) is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to follow who obeyed properly the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil (not knowing they were disobeying the Ten Commandments) removed can see and reflect the glory (character) of the Lord (in obeying the Ten Commandments). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to follow and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:16-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

People misunderstand Holy Spirit in the above passage when Paul speaks of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow because they want to oppose what has been revealed from the beginning: that with God's help, God expects us to do our part to gain mastery over sin. Did God tell Cain He would gain mastery over sin by doing nothing for himself and expecting God to do everything for him? Or had God already told him his part to gain mastery over sin and expected him to do his part to be accepted?

“Why are you so angry?” the LORD asked Cain. “Why do you look so dejected? You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.” (Genesis 4:6-7 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[GDL]

with God's help, God expects us to do our part to gain mastery over sin. Did God tell Cain He would gain mastery over sin by doing nothing for himself and expecting God to do everything for him? Or had God already told him his part to gain mastery over sin and expected him to do his part to be accepted?

“Why are you so angry?” the LORD asked Cain. “Why do you look so dejected? You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.” (Genesis 4:6-7 NLT)

And Hebrews provides additional information telling us Abel's sacrifice was by faith (Heb11:4) thus inferring Cain was not functioning in faith, thus God's warning Cain of sin. So, faith underlies this entire lesson and thus as you say, "with God's help" men do as instructed/commanded.

 

[Gary K]

And Hebrews provides additional information telling us Abel's sacrifice was by faith (Heb11:4) thus inferring Cain was not functioning in faith, thus God's warning Cain of sin. So, faith underlies this entire lesson and thus as you say, "with God's help" men do as instructed/commanded.

I would actually disagree with this.

Ezekiel 36: 25 ¶Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Why take our stony heart and give us a heart of flesh? Rock isn't pliable. It is hard and can only be reshaped through destruction, grinding, or some other destructive process. Flesh is pliable and can fairly easily reshaped, bent.

So God will cleanse us of our idols and spiritual filthiness. He will put His Spirit within us and cause us to walk in His statues and judgments and do them.

Notice there is nothing in the test that says He will help us to obey Him. It says He will cause us to obey Him. We can search the entire Bible and never find a single verse that says He will help us to obey Him.

 

[GDL]

I would actually disagree with this.

Ezekiel 36: 25 ¶Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Why take our stony heart and give us a heart of flesh? Rock isn't pliable. It is hard and can only be reshaped through destruction, grinding, or some other destructive process. Flesh is pliable and can fairly easily reshaped, bent.

So God will cleanse us of our idols and spiritual filthiness. He will put His Spirit within us and cause us to walk in His statues and judgments and do them.

There was a long period between the Garden and soon after, and when God spoke to Israel about the rebirth of men (which Jesus referred back to in talking with Nicodemus). The fact is, as Heb11 and other Scripture speaks of, that men and women were functioning in faith over the centuries while God was progressing to the new birth in Christ.

Notice there is nothing in the test that says He will help us to obey Him. It says He will cause us to obey Him. We can search the entire Bible and never find a single verse that says He will help us to obey Him.

Are you referring to Ez36 as a test? "cause" can mean to make something happen. Ez36:25-27 speaks of God making man able to obey Him. That sounds like "help" to me to say the least.

In Phil2:13 Paul says God is functioning in us, which more specifically means He is providing His capabilities, so we will both desire and work what pleases Him. This also sounds like "help" to me.

There are many, many more examples, like God drawing men making them able to come to/believe in Jesus. That's help. Such help from God is virtually endless and absolutely necessary per Scripture. It's part of His Grace. Apart from His help, we're completely lost and destroyed.

 

[Gary K]

There was a long period between the Garden and soon after, and when God spoke to Israel about the rebirth of men (which Jesus referred back to in talking with Nicodemus). The fact is, as Heb11 and other Scripture speaks of, that men and women were functioning in faith over the centuries while God was progressing to the new birth in Christ.

Are you referring to Ez36 as a test? "cause" can mean to make something happen. Ez36:25-27 speaks of God making man able to obey Him. That sounds like "help" to me to say the least.

In Phil2:13 Paul says God is functioning in us, which more specifically means He is providing His capabilities, so we will both desire and work what pleases Him. This also sounds like "help" to me.

There are many, many more examples, like God drawing men making them able to come to/believe in Jesus. That's help. Such help from God is virtually endless and absolutely necessary per Scripture. It's part of His Grace. Apart from His help, we're completely lost and destroyed.

You're reading your beliefs into the texts. It's God who cleanses us. We can't cleanse ourselves as we are full of sin right down to the level of our dna as we inherited our flesh from Adam and Eve.

 

[GDL]

You're reading your beliefs into the texts. It's God who cleanses us. We can't cleanse ourselves as we are full of sin right down to the level of our dna as we inherited our flesh from Adam and Eve.

Then you're misunderstanding me or making empty charges. I have said nothing about our cleansing ourselves, but I would also point out to you that we Christians are commanded to cleanse ourselves (2Cor7:1 cleanse yourselves). Apart from God's enablement we are unable to do this. And we are not commanded to cleanse ourselves as unbelievers as only God can do this (1Cor6:11 "washed").

This just barely scratches the surface of what is discussed about cleansing in the NC Scriptures. But it's spoken of in both a passive (God does the cleansing) and an active voice (we do the cleansing). But apart from Jesus Christ, we can do nothing (John15) wherein Jesus also speaks of men being clean because of the Word He spoke to them (John15:3).

 

[Gary K]

Then you're misunderstanding me or making empty charges. I have said nothing about our cleansing ourselves, but I would also point out to you that we Christians are commanded to cleanse ourselves (2Cor7:1 cleanse yourselves). Apart from God's enablement we are unable to do this. And we are not commanded to cleanse ourselves as unbelievers as only God can do this (1Cor6:11 "washed").

This just barely scratches the surface of what is discussed about cleansing in the NC Scriptures. But it's spoken of in both a passive (God does the cleansing) and an active voice (we do the cleansing). But apart from Jesus Christ, we can do nothing (John15) wherein Jesus also speaks of men being clean because of the Word He spoke to them (John15:3).

OK. I see where the misunderstanding comes from. Yes God is helping us when He cleanses us, however we cannot do anything to help in cleansing ourselves. We are sinful at the level of our dna so there is nothing we can do in cleansing ourselves. Unless a person thinks God is unjust they can't claim that they can help cleanse themselves. It's just a misunderstanding in how scripture is worded,

 

[GDL]

however we cannot do anything to help in cleansing ourselves

Thanks for looking at it again. I still think you could look more closely at this verse that applies to us after God has initially cleansed us: the "let us" language is a command to all of us including to Paul himself who wrote it:

NKJ 2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

This is part of our involvement in Christ in Spirit in our progressive sanctification as Christians. Interestingly it involves our faithful obedience to our Lord which puts and maintains us in a condition where He does ever more cleansing:

NKJ 1 John 1:6-7 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

So, we Christians obey Him and cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh by walking with Him as He commands, and He cleanses us from all sin. In effect, we cleanse ourselves by His cleansing us. It's very circular and is designed to be. We are involved but can do nothing apart from Him. He is always the basis for anything we do by faith.

 

[Gary K]

Thanks for looking at it again. I still think you could look more closely at this verse that applies to us after God has initially cleansed us: the "let us" language is a command to all of us including to Paul himself who wrote it:

NKJ 2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

This is part of our involvement in Christ in Spirit in our progressive sanctification as Christians. Interestingly it involves our faithful obedience to our Lord which puts and maintains us in a condition where He does ever more cleansing:

NKJ 1 John 1:6-7 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
So, we Christians obey Him and cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh by walking with Him as He commands, and He cleanses us from all sin. In effect, we cleanse ourselves by His cleansing us. It's very circular and is designed to be. We are involved but can do nothing apart from Him. He is always the basis for anything we do by faith.

Jesus said,

John 15: 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

2Corinthians 6: 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

So how much can we do without Jesus? And if we are in Christ is anything of the old man left? All things are become new.

Jesus tells us the following.

Matthew 9: 28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
30 And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it.

So if we believe God can change us and trust God to keep His promises He can change us. If we doubt His ability to change our hearts He can't do it for us. It depends on us what He is allowed to do for us.

 

[GDL]

Jesus said,

John 15: 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Yes.

2Corinthians 6: 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

All new in an old body wherein we and the Spirit still battle sin.

So how much can we do without Jesus? And if we are in Christ is anything of the old man left? All things are become new.

Nothing, as He said above.

We still have work to do while attached to Him: Eph4:22-24 that you (middle - we do something that affects us) put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed (passive) in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you (middle - we do something that affects us) put on the new man which was created (passive) according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

• God created us anew - we are a new creation.
• Attached to the vine we work with Him to do what He commands.

Jesus tells us the following.

Matthew 9: 28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
30 And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it.

So if we believe God can change us and trust God to keep His promises He can change us. If we doubt His ability to change our hearts He can't do it for us. It depends on us what He is allowed to do for us.

In Faith attached to the Vine we do what He commands, and He does His part and enables us to do our part as He commands us to do (Phil2:12-13 for example). It's not just believe and He does everything. He created man to work with Him. Those Phil2 verses say He provides His capacity so we can both desire and work in faithful obedience what pleases Him.

 

[Gary K]

Yes.

All new in an old body wherein we and the Spirit still battle sin.

Nothing, as He said above.

We still have work to do while attached to Him: Eph4:22-24 that you (middle - we do something that affects us) put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed (passive) in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you (middle - we do something that affects us) put on the new man which was created (passive) according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

• God created us anew - we are a new creation.
• Attached to the vine we work with Him to do what He commands.

In Faith attached to the Vine we do what He commands, and He does His part and enables us to do our part as He commands us to do (Phil2:12-13 for example). It's not just believe and He does everything. He created man to work with Him. Those Phil2 verses say He provides His capacity so we can both desire and work in faithful obedience what pleases Him.

There is a work for us to do, but it is not in fighting sins. It's in getting to know God which implies a very personal relationship.

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So how do we fight sin? By continually betting to know God better. John says something very similar in his last three books.

1John 3: 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Our problem when we sin is the inconsistency of our abiding in Jesus. The devil loves to distract us and get us to look at ourselves or others for when we are doing either of those two things we are not looking to Jesus to uphold us by His power.

This lesson is taught by Peter's experience on Galilee. He could walk on water until he took his eyes off Jesus but as soon as he started to sink he called out to Jesus to save him and Jesus did. That is what we need to do. We get overconfident in our own abilities and sink in the storm of sin and begin to be overwhelmed. To fix that problem we just need to put our eyes back on Jesus and ask Him to save us once again. He always will.

 

[HIM]

Funny how someone who is working deeper in the translations of the Text can be assumed to be countered by the process of "pick your favorite expert." Those experts are also struggling with this verse. And they are choosing the best ways to translate this verse based in part upon how they understand it to relate to other Scriptures. This is part of the problem with translations and I for one like to see things like @HIM is pulling from the Text here. FWIW, if anything, I commend you for bringing out issues like this. We can see from translations that men are still working to figure everything out. Why not be one of them? "Expert" can be very subjective. Every denomination has its "experts".

I just wish we as the Body would pull together more. So much could be accomplished together. But alas we have one man bands flailing around for the most part for naught. The ones that do break through are usually charismatic and or overtly lettered with degrees and status. And with that ego and or greed usually comes..

I agree with what @HIM is identifying re: "ean mē". Most literally it says, "if not". "Unless" is a decent replacement.
There are other words to translate as "but" if this were the intended meaning here. The choice of translation can have profound results in what is being said.

Amen

The other issue @HIM is identifying is whether the [literal], "faith [of] Jesus Christ" should be translated as "Jesus Christ's faith", or as "faith in Jesus Christ", or some other way. Both are legitimate ways the phrase could be translated, but the grammar that is normally and most simplistically translated as "of" has about 20 ways it could be translated.

So, did Jesus Christ do works of law, and as a result men are justified as the result of [His] works of law through faith in Him, or through His faith, or through His faithfulness, or through all of these?

The Genitive case; Faith of or faithfulness of Christ Jesus? We see a Huge difference, so here is a little on Context.

What about believing into Christ rather than in since, For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Us being dead but alive. Yet not us but Christ lives in us. And if Christ is living in us Because we put Him on whose faith are we exhibiting? Ours or His? Are we not all children of God through THE Faith IN Christ Jesus rather than just faith in Jesus because we have put Him on and He is living in us? For we are Neither male not female, Jew or Gentile; but all one in Christ.



Gal 2:16 εἰδότες Knowing ὅτι That οὐ δικαιοῦται Is Not Justified ἄνθρωπος A Man ἐξ By ἔργων Works νόμου Of Law, ἐὰν μὴ UNLESS διὰ Through πίστεως Faith Ἰησοῦ Of Jesus Χριστοῦ Christ, καὶ Also ἡμεῖς We εἰς INTO Χριστὸν Christ Ἰησοῦν Jesus ἐπιστεύσαμεν Believed, ἵνα That δικαιωθῶμεν We Might Be Justified ἐκ OUT πίστεως Faith Χριστοῦ Of Christ, καὶ And οὐκ Not ἐξ By ἔργων Works νόμου Of Law; διότι Because οὐ δικαιωθήσεται Shall Be Justified ἐξ By ἔργων Works νόμου Of Law πᾶσα Any σάρξ Flesh.

Gal 3:26 Πάντες γὰρ For All υἱοὶ Sons θεοῦ Of God ἐστε Ye Are διὰ Through τῆς the πίστεως Faith ἐν In Χριστῷ Christ Ἰησοῦ· Jesus.
Gal 3:27 ὅσοι γὰρ For As Many As εἰς INTO Χριστὸν Christ ἐβαπτίσθητε Were Baptized, Χριστὸν Christ ἐνεδύσασθε Ye Did Put On.

As for the scholars, we can add this note from the NET Bible (Please forgive some of the font issues as I'm not doing the work to clean them up), The blue text highlight is mine:

​

I like NET notes thanks for posting them. I need to stop being so frugal and get me a copy, though they are available on line.

Good topic @HIM. Also, some nice work. Thanks for considering such "scholarly" things.

Likewise!

 

[GDL]

I just wish we as the Body would pull together more. So much could be accomplished together.

The quote of the millennia! You and me both (Eph4:13 corporate maturity).

The Genitive case; Faith of or faithfulness of Christ Jesus? We see a Huge difference, so here is a little on Context.

What about believing into Christ rather than in since, For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Us being dead but alive. Yet not us but Christ lives in us. And if Christ is living in us Because we put Him on whose faith are we exhibiting? Ours or His? Are we not all children of God through THE Faith IN Christ Jesus rather than just faith in Jesus because we have put Him on and He is living in us? For we are Neither male not female, Jew or Gentile; but all one in Christ.

There's a lot of very beneficial nuance to be gleaned in all of this. I know you're seeing it also. So have others been seeing and processing it for some time. It's a growing body of work.

I've always liked this little nuanced statement in Greek: NKJ Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which what [thing] I now live in the flesh I live in/by faith, the [faith] of in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. It's like Paul is trying to draw attention to this new/now "thing" we're living in faith with the Christ living His Faith in us.

It's like I'm discussing elsewhere. I think we as a body have lost much of this breathtaking dynamic we now have and I for one appreciate anyone who is trying to find it and bring it out for the rest of us. The collective Spiritual brainpower of the Body attached to the Head IMO is meant to be the greatest "what thing" to exist on this planet. The New Man in Christ is corporate and we're for the most part bickering. It's sad and I hate when I jump into it. Some of it however is a battle still being waged, so onward.

 

[Gary K]

The quote of the millennia! You and me both (Eph4:13 corporate maturity).


There's a lot of very beneficial nuance to be gleaned in all of this. I know you're seeing it also. So have others been seeing and processing it for some time. It's a growing body of work.

I've always liked this little nuanced statement in Greek: NKJ Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which what [thing] I now live in the flesh I live in/by faith, the [faith] of in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. It's like Paul is trying to draw attention to this new/now "thing" we're living in faith with the Christ living His Faith in us.

It's like I'm discussing elsewhere. I think we as a body have lost much of this breathtaking dynamic we now have and I for one appreciate anyone who is trying to find it and bring it out for the rest of us. The collective Spiritual brainpower of the Body attached to the Head IMO is meant to be the greatest "what thing" to exist on this planet. The New Man in Christ is corporate and we're for the most part bickering. It's sad and I hate when I jump into it. Some of it however is a battle still being waged, so onward.

The "collective brain power" of all of humanity isn't a patch on the brain power, or the spiritual discernment, of the HS.

 

[GDL]

The "collective brain power" of all of humanity isn't a patch on the brain power, or the spiritual discernment, of the HS.

Are you not quoting me exactly in order to create disagreement?

The collective Spiritual brainpower of the Body attached to the Head

Unpack this entire statement and note at minimum the capitalized "Spiritual".

 

[Gary K]

Are you not quoting me exactly in order to create disagreement?

Unpack this entire statement and note at minimum the capitalized "Spiritual".

Sorry about that. It was not an intentional misquote. I'll stand by what I said though as our collective brain power and spiritual discernment isn't a patch on that of the HS. All spiritual discernment come from the HS but He is infinite and we are finite, so no matter how large a stack of either attribute we have His is infinitely larger simply because He is infinite.

 

[HIM]

Sorry about that. It was not an intentional misquote. I'll stand by what I said though as our collective brain power and spiritual discernment isn't a patch on that of the HS. All spiritual discernment come from the HS but He is infinite and we are finite, so no matter how large a stack of either attribute we have His is infinitely larger simply because He is infinite.

We have nothing to offer Spiritually outside of Christ and being of His Body. For we are carnal sold under sin. Therefore a slave to the flesh. But in Him we are of Him therefore Spiritual and are or would be unsurpassed in all things. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His goood pleasure.

 

[Gary K]

We have nothing to offer Spiritually outside of Christ and being of His Body. For we are carnal sold under sin. Therefore a slave to the flesh. But in Him we are of Him therefore Spiritual and are or would be unsurpassed in all things. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His goood pleasure.

So you believe you are of infinite spiritual discernment?

 

[Studyman]

The quote of the millennia! You and me both (Eph4:13 corporate maturity).


There's a lot of very beneficial nuance to be gleaned in all of this. I know you're seeing it also. So have others been seeing and processing it for some time. It's a growing body of work.

I've always liked this little nuanced statement in Greek: NKJ Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which what [thing] I now live in the flesh I live in/by faith, the [faith] of in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. It's like Paul is trying to draw attention to this new/now "thing" we're living in faith with the Christ living His Faith in us.

It's like I'm discussing elsewhere. I think we as a body have lost much of this breathtaking dynamic we now have and I for one appreciate anyone who is trying to find it and bring it out for the rest of us. The collective Spiritual brainpower of the Body attached to the Head IMO is meant to be the greatest "what thing" to exist on this planet. The New Man in Christ is corporate and we're for the most part bickering. It's sad and I hate when I jump into it. Some of it however is a battle still being waged, so onward.

Gal. 2: 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

I have pretty must stayed out of this discussion because of one thing that seems to be buried, omitted, ignored and dismissed which if considered, changes the whole dynamic of Paul's teaching here.

I know it will probably be dismissed again, nevertheless, it seems prudent to point it out again.

The Pharisees were not walking in God's Laws. They were not trying to be justified by "Keeping the Commandments of God". If the Pharisees had believed in Jesus, and taught in His Name, helped poor people in His Name, cast our devils in His Name, Jesus would still not know them. Why is this? Because Jesus Himself said so. "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

It's good to do word studies, and strive to know what the verse says, etc. But at some point, other Scriptures must come into consideration in order to understand, in my view.

To understand Paul, is to believe all that is written in the Law and Prophets, as he did. Here is what the fathers of the Pharisees did, according to the Spirit of Christ which was on Isaiah.

Is. 1:3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. 5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.

Israel had rejected God's Laws. Despised His Judgments. Polluted God's Sabbaths.

And yet, what did they continue to do "For Justification"?

10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

This is what the Pharisees were doing in Paul's time. (As your fathers did, so do you) They rejected God's Commandments by their own religious traditions but continued in their version of these "Works of the Law" for justification.

Is this not the Spirit of Christ in Isaiah saying " for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

Is this not the Spirit of Christ in Isaiah saying, "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"?

What was the Faith of Jesus, or the Faith in Jesus, or the Faith practiced by Jesus?

Phil. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Is this not what Paul strove for? "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."

Matt. 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus Himself said if these Pharisees had believed Moses, they would have believed Him.

John 4: 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Jesus Himself said;

John 10: 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

So because of these things and more, I have a completely different take on Gal. 2. Mostly because I understand that the Pharisees did not humble themselves to God, nor did they "Yield Themselves" servants to obey God, as Paul and the early Body of Christ did. Nor did they walk in God's Righteousness or believe the Oracles of God that HE gave to them.

But they promoted going to a manmade shrine of worship and bringing or purchasing an offering to God for justification of their sins, not "by the faith of Jesus Christ" exhibited by Jesus Himself, and Zacharias, Simeon and Anna, and EVERY Example of Faithful man in the Bible.

Truly a great topic of discussion.

 

[GDL]

It's good to do word studies, and strive to know what the verse says, etc. But at some point, other Scriptures must come into consideration in order to understand, in my view.

Just a comment and not looking to create discord in this.

One of the best ways I found over the years to learn from the Text is to do word studies in the Text. It seems a very basic thing to do, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that once the halls of education start teaching things like hermeneutics, they quickly leave out any concepts of also working at such basic levels in the Text.

For example, I came to understand more about the topic of Biblical Salvation through studying every use of the word "save" in every form it is used in the Text, than I ever did in sitting in the pews or in classes being "educated". I also found that many of those teaching salvation were wrong in some to much of what they taught.

Remaining with this example, that study required me to study several 100's of passages of Scripture in context (so probably a few thousand verses) and to pursue many, many rabbit trails connected to the topic of "salvation'. It took me a year+ to get near accomplishing it and I study like a full-time job in Greek and some Hebrew.

So, I say this just to say that although some of this discussion may seem like minutia and too narrowly focused, in speaking of myself, my mind at this level of narrow focus has much Scripture attached in the wings ready to go to. From what I've read of @HIM I'm pretty sure it's the same for him.

This narrow focus will attach to many other points in the Text, and it does tend to alter how we might then read them and interpret them. Also, faith in vs. faith of is no small matter in the view of many. There has been too much incorrect focus on our faith in Christ when the Text is actually speaking of His faith and telling us more about what He did and how and what He does and what He provides to us.

It's all important, every verse, every detail, every word, every letter, every man inserted punctuation. The entirety. I just read through a few pages of thinking and reasoning in context and associated Scripture about the placement of a comma in Rom2.