Freewill Is Logically Impossible (for us)

[Sketo]

Timestamp Outline for Your convenience!
1.5x Speed recommended.

00:00:00 Intro
0:03:22 Properly defining "freewill"
0:06:36 Foundational verses
00:11:40 Addressing Deiesm heresy
00:15:38 Determinism established
00:20:11 …Visual example
00:25:06 Practical applications
00:30:08 Foundation necessary Eph 1:11
00:32:28 Misconceptions (semi-Deism)
00:36:21 Misunderstanding (God's involvement in creation)
00:41:54 Transcendent Author explained
00:45:07 God not just Author
00:47:11 Foundation question
00:52:12 Omni-atributes addressed
00:55:24 "Omnipotence" specifically
00:58:29 God can not "give" freedom
01:05:05 "Forced" assumption addressed
01:11:11 Meticulous Control or Duelism
01:13:00 Direct and Indirect causes addressed
01:16:46 "CHOICE" critically examined
01:21:00 God's "choice" different from man's "choice"
01:22:35 "choice" IN Finite Realm examined
01:27:13 "choice IN Infinite Realm examined
01:30:42 self-determinism IN finite realm = circular
01:32:06 "reason for choice" = Determinism
01:33:56 Different Circumstances Examined
01:35:45 "God has freewill so I can too" examined
01:39:22 God's choice BEFORE time and IN time
01:43:18 "Choice according to your GREATEST desire"
01:45:19 Can "desires" change... tomorrow?
01:46:50 "Ability to choose among competing desires" examined
01:52:05 Choice thought experiment
01:54:55 "ability to do otherwise" examined
02:04:31 "freewill" equivalent to illusion, magic trick, luck
02:11:53 If "freedom" = doing what you "want"
02:13:11 Believing "freewill" is not stupid
02:17:23 "freewill" assumed without foundation
02:20:37 PROBLEM OF EVIL
02:24:21 what is "evil"/"sin"?
02:26:52 what does "God can not sin" mean?
02:29:30 is God "responsible" for sin?
02:34:43 God the "Author" of sin addressed
02:37:11 emotional arguments addressed
02:40:21 "freewill" cant answer for "evil"
02:42:13 God "gave" freewill examined
02:47:07 "God allows/permits evil" examined
02:50:02 FAIRNESS examined
02:52:30 if God has the power to stop sin examined
02:53:08 RESPONSABILITY turned around
03:00:08 humanistic examples dont apply to God

03:04:16 QUESTIONS FOR FREEWILLERS
3:11:42 QUESTION 1 (If God knows, that by creating you, you will end up in hell, how is he not determined you to end up in hell by creating you?)
3:13:54 obj¹ “just because God foreknows does not mean he determined it” can not apply to God
3:19:29 obj² metaphysical disconnect argument
3:23:38 obj3 “God can foreknow independent from creating you” examined

3:25:53 QUESTION 1.1 (Why would God create anybody that He 100% knows will end up in hell?)
3:27:05 obj¹ difference between what God commands and what God “wants” to com to pass
3:27:48 example Christ Crucified
3:30:22 example Pharaoh
3:31:15 example joseph

03:32:44 QUESTION 2 (Could God have created [those he knew would end in hell] differently?)
03:35:24 QUESTION 2.5 (If God could… why didn’t He?)

03:38:52 “chooser of your own choices" second-layer fallacy examined
03:42:34 God as Divine Author Chapter/Verse
03:45:04 freewill makes God a "robot"
03:49:10 Molanism "God must deal with the hand dealt" addressed
03:51:36 Calvinism is the only system where God is "free"
03:54:06 "freewill" can not answer for Adam's fall

03:56:20 QUESTION 3 (If freewill is true why has there never been a sinless human?)
03:57:20 “freewill is necessary for true relationship” examined and refuted
04:00:58 only determinism can answer why no sinless humans?

04:02:15 QUESTION 4 (How does “eternal security” fit in a freewill system?)

04:04:00 QUESTION 5 (How can is be said “God is sending the Gospel” if it is up to the “freewill” of man?/ Who gets credit?)
04:05:44 QUESTION 5.5 (Why does God "send" the Gospel to those he knows will reject it?)

04:08:33 QUESTION 6 (Do you exist because of God’s “choice” or your parent’s “freewill choice”?)

04:12:28 QUESTION 7 (Why do “freewill” proponents say “Lord willing"? James 4:15)

04:15:12 QUESTION 8 (If freewill is true why "pray"?)

04:18:28 QUESTION 9 (How is it “fair” that God chooses when, where, and how to make you?)

04:20:44 QUESTION 1.2 (Questioning Molinism in light of “fairness”)

04:23:24 QUESTION 10 (Which view actually presents God as “bigger/better”?) [Leighton’s “chessboard analogy”]
04:26:31 QUESTION 10.1 (Can God be “bigger” by choosing to “limit” his knowledge to allow for freewill?)
04:29:18 QUESTION 10.2 (How is God being in control of all things a “lesser view”?)

04:32:35 ️QUESTION 11 (Can God determine that you do what you “WANT” to do, and it also be what He “WANTS” you to do?)
04:37:48 ️QUESTION 11 reiterated (Can God determine that you do what He “WANTS” you to do, and it also be what you “WANT” to do?
04:40:00 ️️QUESTION 11 If you answer yes this is why you lose the debate.

04:46:30 Conclusion

The Consistent Calvinism Podcast

 

[martymonster]

Yeah. Free will is basically a 'get out of jail' free card for God, because if you have billions of people burning in hell, for all of eternity, then you need to find a way for him to not be responsible for it.... thus, the free will doctrine. Otherwise, if you have both, you wind up with Calvinism.

I don't have to believe in 'free will' because I believe that all men are going to be saved.

 

[Neostarwcc]

This video looks very interesting but it's over 4 hours long. I'll have to watch it in parts and get back to this thread.

 

[BNR32FAN]

03:04:16 QUESTIONS FOR FREEWILLERS
3:11:42 QUESTION 1 (If God knows, that by creating you, you will end up in hell, how is he not determined you to end up in hell by creating you?)
3:13:54 obj¹ “just because God foreknows does not mean he determined it” can not apply to God

Ok the analogy he used about foreseeing the car crash does not accurately resemble Calvin’s theology and here’s why. If I foresee that my friend will crash and die if I loan him my car that doesn’t mean that I caused the crash by loaning him my car. Yes I loaned him the car and thru a chain of events the crash was destined to happen but I did nothing to actually prevent him from avoiding the crash. Now in Calvin’s theology God has decided not to bestow His grace upon them ensuring that they are incapable of repentance which would be equivalent to me sabotaging my car to ensure that my friend cannot avoid the crash. So in this case God foresaw what He absolutely made sure would happen, not what would happen thru a natural chain of events. So that analogy he used does not accurately describe the situation.

 

[ReverendRV]

Free Will ~ by Reverend RV

Romans 7:18 NASB; For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

So you have Fee Will, hunh? We all know what is meant when we talk about Free Will; we’re individuals who have the option to make choices in our own Lives. After all, God gave Mankind Dominion while we were in the Garden of Eden; right? But a problem usually arises when people start claiming just how free their Will is. Contra Causal Free Will means our Will is SO free that we have the power to act without the constraint of Necessity or Fate. Most people accept this definition; but should they? If you are like me, sometimes you nonchalantly stop to get a couple of burritos. It’s always at the last bite that I remember I’ve been planning on just eating one serving; “the best laid plans of mice and men”! How do we say it, “There’s a piece of pie in the refrigerator calling my name”? You object, “I believe in Mind over Matter!” Part of the definition for Free Will is the ability to act at one’s own discretion; so in part you are right…

There is a foolproof method we can use to show you that there is no such thing as a Free Will apart from Necessity or Fate, care to see for yourself? ~ Have you ever told a Lie? What do we call people who Lie? What do we call Liars who can’t help themselves? Has there ever been a time you couldn’t help but to Lie because you were afraid of looming Consequences? ~ Have you ever Stolen something? What do you call those who Steal? What do we call those who can’t stop Stealing? Have you ever taken anything that didn’t belong to you, because you wanted it SO bad that you couldn’t stand it? So far you are a Compulsive Liar and a Kleptomaniac. Can you go all day without Lying or stealing? Oh you think you can? Try this then; go the rest of the day without lusting after all those beautiful people you meet. Jesus said that Lust is Adultery of the Heart; now how free is your Will?? It gets worse, these are just three of the Ten Commandments; if God judges you by them would you be innocent or guilty? Does this bother you?

The Wages of Sin is death, either death in an Eternal Hell or death on a Cross; you choose. We always obey our strongest desires; has yours changed? ~ For God so loved the world that he gave us his only begotten Son Jesus Christ, so that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have Everlasting Life! Jesus always did the Will of God his Father, so he never Sinned against him like you and I have. Because of his Righteousness, we can be cleared of all the charges which God’s law has made against us; but only if the Law of God charges Jesus instead of us. He was put to death in our place by dying on ‘that’ Cross; shedding his blood as payment for our Sin. He was buried for three days but arose from the dead! We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in the risen Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, without Works. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as Lord and find a Church that teaches the Bible verse by verse. ~ If you fear God, your Will is free to choose Christ and nothing will stop you. But if you don’t, you’re bound by Sin…

Luke 12:50 NIV; But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Have you ever told a Lie?

Reverend I have never told a lie…well except for just now.