False Testimony on Todd Bentley’s Website

[BenAdam]

I do know one thing. TB's dvd's are being shilled for $30 so you too can have his annointing.

I think that is called reverse simony.

 

[Simon Peter]

As to the article that you call the "Emma teaching", I already addressed that earlier in the thread. I sincerely don't believe that article was EVER intended to focus on female angels and/or Emma. Therefore, in a side by side comparison of the article, I don't see how the overall message has changed all that drastically.

You don’t believe that article was EVER intended to focus on Emma !!!
You cannot be serious!!! The WHOLE ‘article’ was about EMMA!

The original title was:

Emma, Angel of the Prophetic.

The original teaching started:
Now let me talk about an angelic experience with Emma.

The orignal article even went into details describing how she looked, how old she was, how she moved, and where she'd been.

Three of the four paragraphs started with a sentence about Emma. (The first sentence of a paragraph tells you what the paragraph is about.)
Only the smallest paragraph is not directly about Emma.

The last, and concluding paragraph started:
I believe Emma released a financial and prophetic anointing in that place.

There was only about 29 sentences in the original teaching, yet:
Emma’s name was mentioned at least 12 times.
Emma was also referred to as “she” or “her” an additional 12 times.

Come on Pete, if this wasn't about 'Emma' then what would an article about Emma look like?

 

[probinson]

You don’t believe that article was EVER intended to focus on Emma !!!
You cannot be serious!!! The WHOLE ‘article’ was about EMMA!

The original title was:

Emma, Angel of the Prophetic.

The original teaching started:
Now let me talk about an angelic experience with Emma.

The orignal article even went into details describing how she looked, how old she was, how she moved, and where she'd been.

Three of the four paragraphs started with a sentence about Emma. (The first sentence of a paragraph tells you what the paragraph is about.)
Only the smallest paragraph is not directly about Emma.

The last, and concluding paragraph started:
I believe Emma released a financial and prophetic anointing in that place.

There was only about 29 sentences in the original teaching, yet:
Emma’s name was mentioned at least 12 times.
Emma was also referred to as “she” or “her” an additional 12 times.

Come on Pete, if this wasn't about 'Emma' then what would an article about Emma look like?

Calm down, SP, and do some research for yourself on the article you're criticizing.

Thanks to the amazing Web Archive, you can see the entire article in its totality as it was on the Fresh Fire website on December 4, 2003 at this link;

http://web.archive.org/web/20031204215254/www.freshfire.ca/teaching.asp

Here, you can see the original article was entitled "Angelic Hosts". There is one section of that article with a subheading "Emma, Angel of the Prophetic", but that was not the title, nor do I believe, the FOCUS of that article.

The article had 23 subheadings in total, 1 of which had ANYTHING at all to do with "Emma". In that section, "Emma" was mentioned 13 times, "she" 15 times, and "her" 10 times.

This 17 page article has 99 paragraphs and 9,631 words (according to my installation of Word 2003). That means that 38 out of 9,631 words, or rather, 0.3% of that article had to do with Emma and/or female angels.

 

[Lulav]

It's simply amazing how you can post something that is talking about people who ALREADY BELIEVE in Jesus (i.e. Christians), and continue to insinuate that Todd Bentley is advocating that Jesus is not important.

You have SORELY ripped that quote out of its proper context to bear false witness against and misrepresent what Todd Bentley actually said in that clip.

This is why your "warnings" are suspect, because apparently, you feel it's OK to remove single sentences from their context to make it appear as though something is being promoted that is not.

People warning others shouldn't need to use deception as one of their tools to get their message across.

Your defensive attitude towards this is telling, I don't have a dog in this fight, I am not trying to convince you who to believe in, and thats the whole point. I don't care how many words you surround those I posted with, before , after, doesn't matter. What matters is that you believe and Todd believes that G-d really said this:

“Lord, why can’t I just move in healing and forget talking about all that other stuff? He said, ‘Because Todd, you got to get the people to believe in the angel.’ I said God, why do I want people to believe in the angel, isn’t it about getting the people to believe in Jesus? He said, ‘The people already believe in Jesus, but the church doesn’t believe in the supernatural.’ The church has no problem believing in Jesus, what we don’t believe in is the supernatural. We don’t believe in angels, we don’t believe in the prophetic, we don’t believe in what’s going on, and I’ll tell you what, we need to have an awakening.”

- Todd Bentley



Please show me scripture reference where G-d, THE G-d or Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, ever said anything like this? Jesus? did he ever say anything like this? Did he ever tell any of his disciples or Apostles that they had to get people to believe in anything besides him? Where does he say to believe in the supernatural? Where does he say to get them to believe in 'prophetic'? Where does he say 'get' people to believe in 'what's going on'?




And if you still don't get it after that, where does he ever talk about an AWAKENING???
​

Where does it call for an end time Awakening? My bible reads that many shall fall asleep, and fall away, not wake up, only after it's too late though.

Paul said this:

3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,

NOT THIS

3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the awakening comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,

When that son of perdition is coming most will not be in a sober state, awaiting Jesus, but they will be wrapped up in their own selfs , trying to 'experience' him and yet becoming blinded to what is really happening.

We aren't to be believing in an awakening, but we are to stay awake and be sober, lest the devil who goes about roaring can and will devour you.

It's simply amazing how you can post something that is talking about people who ALREADY BELIEVE in Jesus (i.e. Christians), and continue to insinuate that Todd Bentley is advocating that Jesus is not important.

What is believing? Is that ALL we are commanded to do?
No.

We are not just to believe in Him, but to obey him.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]John 14:15-17[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? [/FONT]

 

[Simon Peter]

Thanks to the amazing Web Archive, you can see the entire article in its totality as it was on the Fresh Fire website on December 4, 2003 at this link;

http://web.archive.org/web/20031204215254/www.freshfire.ca/teaching.asp

Here, you can see the original article was entitled "Angelic Hosts". There is one section of that article with a subheading "Emma, Angel of the Prophetic", but that was not the title, nor do I believe, the FOCUS of that article.

Pete,

The OP was talking about the 'Emma teaching'. I even posted the whole thing (original and doctored versions) on page three of this thread. So I'd think you had to know this.

To suggest that Emma was not the focus by suddenly introducing the fact that it was a part of a larger teaching is irrelevant. Why don't you just say Emma is not the focus of Todd Bentley's ministry over the last 15 years?

It's the Emma teaching (under it's own title: EMMA, ANGEL OF THE PROPHETIC) that this thread is about. That's the teaching that has been doctored, and it's entire focus and meaning changed.

Words are important. As Christians we know this better than most. Even more important are words that the Lord speaks. How can you justify the following revisionism:

Original version:

The Lord answered: "She is releasing the gold, which is both the revelation and the financial breakthrough that I am bringing into this church. I want you to prophecy that Emma showed up in this service the same angel that appeared in Kansas city as a sign that I am endorsing and releasing a prophetic spirit in the church."

New doctored version:

The Lord answered: “This angel is releasing the gold, which is both the revelation and the financial breakthrough that I am bringing into this church. I want you to prophecy that the angel’s appearance is a sign that I am endorsing and releasing a prophetic spirit in the church.”

 

[probinson]

Pete,
It's the Emma teaching (under it's own title: EMMA, ANGEL OF THE PROPHETIC) that this thread is about. That's the teaching that has been doctored, and it's entire focus and meaning changed.

SP, the point is THERE WAS NO EMMA TEACHING, ever. The teaching was about Angelic Hosts. The teaching was entitled, Angelic Hosts. You an see that at the web archive link I've provided for you above.

I do not believe that the focus of the teaching of Angelic Hosts was *ever* meant to focus on Emma and/or female angels. But what has happened is that a number of people have gone so far as to create an imaginary "Emma Teaching" from a single subheading out of a much larger teaching.

The "Emma Teaching" does not exist, and it never has. It was part of a much larger article, whose focus was never intended to be on Emma and/or female angels.

Words are important. As Christians we know this better than most. Even more important are words that the Lord speaks. How can you justify the following revisionism:

Original version:

The Lord answered: "She is releasing the gold, which is both the revelation and the financial breakthrough that I am bringing into this church. I want you to prophecy that Emma showed up in this service the same angel that appeared in Kansas city as a sign that I am endorsing and releasing a prophetic spirit in the church."

New doctored version:

The Lord answered: “This angel is releasing the gold, which is both the revelation and the financial breakthrough that I am bringing into this church. I want you to prophecy that the angel’s appearance is a sign that I am endorsing and releasing a prophetic spirit in the church.”

I don't believe I've tried to "justify" that. In fact, I took it a step further by comparing sentence for sentence the original article with the edited one, and found that a full 25 sentences had either been edited or removed, and then said that it appeared deceptive to me.

That's not "justifying" the change.

 

[charityagape]

I don't believe I've tried to "justify" that. In fact, I took it a step further by comparing sentence for sentence the original article with the edited one, and found that a full 25 sentences had either been edited or removed, and then said that it appeared deceptive to me.

That's not "justifying" the change.

You've said this what? Four, five times?

 

[Simon Peter]

SP, the point is THERE WAS NO EMMA TEACHING, ever. The teaching was about Angelic Hosts. The teaching was entitled, Angelic Hosts. You an see that at the web archive link I've provided for you above.

The "Emma Teaching" does not exist, and it never has. It was part of a much larger article, whose focus was never intended to be on Emma and/or female angels.

This is like saying there never was a SERMON ON THE MOUNT, it does not exist and it never has. There's only a gospel called Matthew.

Ridiculous. I'm done here.

 

[Elijah2]

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Appearance[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Todd Bentley is far from mainstream. He is heavy set and bearded and his arms and neck are covered with tattoos. He wears studs in his chin and left eyebrow and certainly doesn’t look anything like a typical evangelist. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]But isn’t being a Christian all about being forgiven for past sins and being filled with the Holy Spirit which helps enable one to live out the rest of our lives in righteousness etc. etc. Isn’t being a Christian more to do with the inside being clean, rather than the outside adhering to some set standard? Didn’t Jesus criticize the Pharisees for their appearance of righteousness while the inside was rotting? [/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]

Certainly! As long as our present lives are pleasing to God and our beliefs according to the precepts of Scripture, it should not particularly matter what our outward appearance is like. Except for one small problem.. Unlike many Christians, I have absolutely nothing against [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]tattoos[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1], but in the photograph Bentley is displaying a tattoo that is eerily similar to the popular depictions of Medusa. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Besides which it is all too often the case that tattoos, body piercings etc. are far more than just appearance, they represent a lifestyle …a mindset or worldview, if you will, that is completely antithetical to Christianity. Apart from the eerie Medusa-like tattoo on his left shin, I wonder if Bentley’s tattoos is just another sign of his mindset, which is further illustrated by his .....[/SIZE][/FONT]​

 

[Elijah2]

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=+1]God Wants People To Believe in The Angel.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]In yet another astonishing ‘revelation’ Bentley says that he has to tell people the full story..[/SIZE][/FONT]​

• [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]“… if you want to know why God’s moving I have to tell you the whole story. If you don’t believe the story.. well sorry. You know I told the Lord.. “Why can’t I just move in healing and forget talking about all that other stuff ?” He said “because you got to get the people to believe in the angel” I said “Why do I want people to believe in the angel? Isn’t it about getting the people to believe in Jesus? ” He said “The people already believe in Jesus , but the church doesn’t believe in the supernatural. The church has no problem believing in Jesus, what we don’t believe in is the supernatural. What we don’t believe in is angels, we don’t believe in the prophetic, we don’t believe in some of what’s going on, and I’ll tell you what ..we need to have an awakening. [/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The angel being referred to here is the “angel of the winds of change”[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Bentley then apparently told God that maybe He wanted to [/SIZE][/FONT]​

<UL>

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]&#8220;give this ministry to someone else cause none&#8217;s going to receive it.. You&#8217;re going to give me the most controversial testimony. You&#8217;re going to visit me with all this supernatural stuff. Maybe if I were a little more clean shaven and polished.. Or maybe the world is looking for something new. How any of you believe we need something new?&#8221; [/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[Elijah2]

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=+1]God Wants People To Believe in The Angel.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]In yet another astonishing &#8216;revelation&#8217; Bentley says that he has to tell people the full story..[/SIZE][/FONT]​

• [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]&#8220;&#8230; if you want to know why God&#8217;s moving I have to tell you the whole story. If you don&#8217;t believe the story.. well sorry. You know I told the Lord.. &#8220;Why can&#8217;t I just move in healing and forget talking about all that other stuff ?&#8221; He said &#8220;because you got to get the people to believe in the angel&#8221; I said &#8220;Why do I want people to believe in the angel? Isn&#8217;t it about getting the people to believe in Jesus? &#8221; He said &#8220;The people already believe in Jesus , but the church doesn&#8217;t believe in the supernatural. The church has no problem believing in Jesus, what we don&#8217;t believe in is the supernatural. What we don&#8217;t believe in is angels, we don&#8217;t believe in the prophetic, we don&#8217;t believe in some of what&#8217;s going on, and I&#8217;ll tell you what ..we need to have an awakening. [/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The angel being referred to here is the &#8220;angel of the winds of change&#8221;[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Bentley then apparently told God that maybe He wanted to [/SIZE][/FONT]​

<UL>

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]&#8220;give this ministry to someone else cause none&#8217;s going to receive it.. You&#8217;re going to give me the most controversial testimony. You&#8217;re going to visit me with all this supernatural stuff. Maybe if I were a little more clean shaven and polished.. Or maybe the world is looking for something new. How any of you believe we need something new?&#8221; [/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[Elijah2]

All this can be read on: http://www.inplainsite.org/html/todd_bentley.html#Angel

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[charityagape]

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Appearance[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Todd Bentley is far from mainstream. He is heavy set and bearded and his arms and neck are covered with tattoos. He wears studs in his chin and left eyebrow and certainly doesn’t look anything like a typical evangelist. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]But isn’t being a Christian all about being forgiven for past sins and being filled with the Holy Spirit which helps enable one to live out the rest of our lives in righteousness etc. etc. Isn’t being a Christian more to do with the inside being clean, rather than the outside adhering to some set standard? Didn’t Jesus criticize the Pharisees for their appearance of righteousness while the inside was rotting? [/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]

Certainly! As long as our present lives are pleasing to God and our beliefs according to the precepts of Scripture, it should not particularly matter what our outward appearance is like. Except for one small problem.. Unlike many Christians, I have absolutely nothing against [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]tattoos[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1], but in the photograph Bentley is displaying a tattoo that is eerily similar to the popular depictions of Medusa. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Besides which it is all too often the case that tattoos, body piercings etc. are far more than just appearance, they represent a lifestyle …a mindset or worldview, if you will, that is completely antithetical to Christianity. Apart from the eerie Medusa-like tattoo on his left shin, I wonder if Bentley’s tattoos is just another sign of his mindset, which is further illustrated by his .....[/SIZE][/FONT]​

Isn't medusa a woman with snake hair? That's a tattoo of an ugly dude with wind blown hair and what looks to be a sword.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

This is like saying there never was a SERMON ON THE MOUNT, it does not exist and it never has. There's only a gospel called Matthew.

Ridiculous. I'm done here.

better just wash off your shoes in addition to shaking them off. It's pretty deep in here.

 

[probinson]

This is like saying there never was a SERMON ON THE MOUNT, it does not exist and it never has. There's only a gospel called Matthew.

Ridiculous. I'm done here.

What was the "teaching" about Emma, and/or female angels? What are we "taught" by this subsection of the larger article?

The fact is, it was a passing comment in a MUCH larger teaching that had NOTHING to do with Emma and/or female angels, plain and simple. An anecdotal story. Not a "teaching". The "teaching" was about Angelic Hosts, hence why the article was titled, Angelic Hosts...

For anyone who cares to examine the entire, original, unedited article for themselves, you may do so at this link;
http://web.archive.org/web/20031204215254/www.freshfire.ca/teaching.asp

 

[Watchman4hm]

Lord forgive us for the constant need to be right.

 

[probinson]

This is like saying there never was a SERMON ON THE MOUNT, it does not exist and it never has. There's only a gospel called Matthew.

Not quite.

If there were an article titled "Emma...", you might have a point, but there's not, and there never was. There is an article called "Angelic Hosts".

Now if I were trying to say there is no article called ANGELIC HOSTS, just a Fresh Fire Ministries website of teachings, then you would have a point. But lucky for me I didn't say that, so your analogy is horribly flawed.

 

[Amaryllismayfly]

Jesus, let your will be done with this thread. God, I don't come here with false humility, I know I have participated in this thread, and I don't pray this as though I am better than anyone I agree with or disagree with in this thread. Lord, I glorify you, and lift your name on high. You are holy and wonderful and amazing. Your love covers a multitude of sins. I ask for your blessing to be with everyone is this thread, your salvation for all of their loved ones, your victory in every area of their life to your Glory and Honor. Jesus, you are so special and amazing. I thank you for the love you have in these peoples hearts, and how special they are to you. Bless them Lord, Bless them. Bless them Jesus, cover them and protect them, keep them, and glory to You for them.
You, oh most high, we love you Lord. Glory to you God, in Jesus' name I ask all this, amen

 

[hislegacy]

.

 

[charityagape]

I wonder what the 15 complete projects are.