Example: Affirming the Sabbath Commandment while denying its detail --

Leaf473

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Glad we can find agreement.
In the post of mine that you quoted, I was assessing your position. I wasn't stating mine.

The whole book of Leviticus is Commandments from God

"what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus " Rev 14:12
"this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His commandments" 1 John 5:3
"the first commandment WITH a promise - is Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2
God spoke the TEN commandments to Israel "and He added no more" Deut 5:22

I don't see how this is even a little bit confusing.

Agreed.

Some things are very very easy to see.

I see Mark 7:7-13 as forbidding the edit of God's Commandments.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
Jesus condemns editing of God's Word in Mark 7 - as you seem to have asked that it be pointed out repeatedly.
Okay, so zero editing of any of God's Commandments.
Interesting that you would choose to agree with Christ in that case of Mark 7:7-13

Glad we can find agreement.

"what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus " Rev 14:12
"this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His commandments" 1 John 5:3
"the first commandment WITH a promise - is Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2
God spoke the TEN commandments to Israel "and He added no more" Deut 5:22

I don't see how this is even a little bit confusing.

I see Mark 7:7-13 as forbidding the edit of God's Commandments.

I was assessing your position. I wasn't stating mine.
I see... so then you are "stating my position" so that...??
So that I can see my own position? seriously?

Did you at any point - consider simply responding to the point raised ?
 
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BobRyan

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The whole book of Leviticus is Commandments from God
when you read the book of Leviticus did you find that "honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" as Paul says in the case of the TEN???

When God says "He spoke the ten and added no more" in Deut 5:22 do you find it best to ignore it and go to the book of Leviticus?

Do you object to statements dealing with Eph 6:2 and Deut 5??
 
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BobRyan

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Exodus 28:10, But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: Doesn't this mean God keeps the Sabbath, or maybe you think it means God owns the Sabbath.
I agree with the statement that He owns it,

Christ said that The Father works and the Son also works. I fact it could be said with everyone praying even more on Sabbath than on other days -- it might indicate that God does even more work on Sabbath than on other days.

In any case - the Ex 20:8-11 is not pointing to God resting every week - but rather God resting in Gen 2:2-3 on the 7th day of creation week. That alone makes it a binding obligation for humans according to the commandment and according to Gen 2:2-3
 
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Leaf473

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Interesting that you would choose to agree with Christ in that case of Mark 7:7-13
Glad we can find agreement.
I believe you already said that.

And I responded:
"In the post of mine that you quoted, I was assessing your position. I wasn't stating mine.

The whole book of Leviticus is Commandments from God"
"what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus " Rev 14:12
"this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His commandments" 1 John 5:3
"the first commandment WITH a promise - is Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2
God spoke the TEN commandments to Israel "and He added no more" Deut 5:22

I don't see how this is even a little bit confusing.

I see Mark 7:7-13 as forbidding the edit of God's Commandments.


I see... so then you are "stating my position" so that...??
So that I can see my own position? seriously?

Did you at any point - consider simply responding to the point raised ?
 
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Leaf473

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when you read the book of Leviticus did you find that "honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" as Paul says in the case of the TEN???
No. I do find this, however

When God says "He spoke the ten and added no more" in Deut 5:22 do you find it best to ignore it and go to the book of Leviticus?
No.

Do you object to statements dealing with Eph 6:2 and Deut 5??
I don't object to true statements about Ephesians 6:2 and Deuteronomy 5. I do, however, object to false or misleading statements.

More scripture is always good. Another proverb
 
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reddogs

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BobRyan

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I don't know about a trend, but for myself, I don't think the Sabbath commandment should be edited any more - or any less - than any other commandment.
Mark 7:7-13 says they cannot be edited.

Do you feel like Christ was in error in Mark 7?

Is it your view that God's commandments should be edited? removed?
 
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BobRyan

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@BobRyan, the video in your opening post is set to begin playing at the 16:29 mark. Is that your intent? meaning you are only asking that we watch the video from that point to the end? That's what I did, but I just want to make sure I am not missing anything from before that point because I did not watch it from the beginning.
you are welcome to watch all of it - I clicked on the OP link just now and it started at 1s -- so I may have updated it for everyone. In any case I think the video makes some interesting statements.
 
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BobRyan

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I don't object to true statements about Ephesians 6:2 and Deuteronomy 5. I do, however, object to false or misleading statements.
instead of a post with a false accusation and no evidence for the accusation -- Consider making a factual point that we can all take a look at.
 
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BobRyan

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1. The Gen 2 event is before Sinai - it claims to be at Creation week where only two humans exist for "mankind".
2. The Ex 16 text shows "exact day" compliance with the "sanctified and made it holy" statement in Gen 2:3
3. The EX 20:10 text shows that it is not the "Sabbath of man" but rather the "Sabbath of YHWH"
4. The IS 56 text shows gentiles specifically singled out for following that Gen 2 Sabbath
5. The IS 66:23 statement shows that it extends out for all eternity into the New Earth for "all mankind"
6. In Acts 13 it is GENTILES - not "Jews" asking for more Gospel preaching to be scheduled for "the NEXT Sabbath"

If we were Jews living before Christ, you would have a point.
That only works if one supposes that "only Jews know that Adam and Eve were humans , or the only humans on Earth in Gen 2"
That only works if one supposes that "God" (YHWH) in EX 20:10 cannot be allowed to be the God of someone who is not a Jew.
That only works if one supposes that the gentiles in Is 56:6-8 are Jews not gentiles
That only works if one supposes that in Is 66:23 gentiles are not to be included in the term "mankind" -- for all eternity in the New Earth
That only works if one supposes that the gentiles in Acts 13 -- are Jews not gentiles.

Notice that the speaker in the OP does not make any such assumptions
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike.
Rom 14:5
nope. "one person observes one day above another while another observes them all... he who observes the day observes it to the Lord" Rom 14.

IT is a reference to the Bible approved list of holy days in Lev 23 and is compatible with the Gal 4:10-11 condemnation of a Christian that observes even one pagan holy day.
"So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another"
R 7:4
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:4 "this is the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

Eph 6:2 "Honor your father and mother is the first Commandment WITH A promise"
I am not interested in the video,
The title of the thread - and the OP deal with "AN EXAMPLE of affirming the Sabbath Commandment while denying its detail".

The video is an EXAMPLE of a pro-Sunday pastor affirming the Sabbath commandment to an extent.

The point is that some of the VERY details that are affirmed about the Sabbath commandment are seen to be affirmed by pro-Sunday scholars as in the case of the video - and the Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19, and the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19 and D.L. Moody and the Catholic Dies Domini and R.C Sproul, and C.H. Spurgeon and ...

Yet many oppose the Bible Sabbath when in dialogue with Adventists as IF - Adventist were the only one affirming those Sabbath-commandment related details.
I am just responding to your claims.

There is no point in trying to manipulate translations, I am able to check such statements. The word is "krinei", its not possible to translate as "observes" and no Bible translation (at least listed among the dozens on biblehub.com) does.

Thats OK, I have nothing against keeping the commandments of God, but not those who were not given to us and for our times
Is 66:23 says the Sabbath i for all mankind.
Mark 2:27 says the Sabbath is for mankind
Is 56:6-8 singles out gentiles specifically for Sabbath keeping
Acts 13 - shows us where gentiles wait for Jews to leave the synagogue - then ask Paul for "more gospel preaching" to be scheduled "The NEXT SABBATH" -- for them. Rather than the much-supposed "tomorrow as the gospel service you just told us about".
Yes, its factually right that the Mosaic Law has this commandment with a promise and it is the first such commandment.
And it is also true that the 5th commandment IS NOT the "first commandment with a promise" in Exodus, or in Genesis or in any book of Moses known to mankind.

It is only the first one with a promise in that unit of TEN where as Deut 5:22 says God spoke the ten "and added no more".

You skimmed past a lot of key details just then.

And next we see "why"
However, you are unable to defend the stretch that this sentence from Eph 6:2 means we are supposed to keep the whole Mosaic Law.
The point was in regard to "The TEN". Skimming past all the details leaves you with a bit of a rabbit trail just then.
You simply just put those verses together to create an illusion
Your skimming over the details above - is not helping your case just then. I am noting details you are determined to dismiss.
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses...
...The apostles and elders met to consider this question...
Indeed.

Notice that they argue that part of the issue is solved by the fact that "Moses is preached every Sabbath in the synagogues" --
Yep that helped the church a lot since in Acts 13 and Acts 18 we see BOTH gentiles and Jews in the Synagogues "every Sabbath" as Acts 18;4 says - even in the case of Paul preaching the Gospel to gentiles and Jews.
 
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Leaf473

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The fact that even doctors today would say the same thing is set aside to keep from any truth especially if its relating to what God says.
I'm sure doctors say some parts of Leviticus 15 are good ideas. The issue is whether it's a commandment, whether it's something that has been or should be be edited.

That section continues on

Most people today would say that if a person has an oozing wound on, say, their arm, and it's under layers of bandages, other people sitting on the same pew don't have to wash the clothes they were wearing, possibly including sending their suits out for dry cleaning. Even less would people sitting on the same pew a week later have to wash their clothes. Thus, the commandment is edited.


I don't know of any church that washes down their wooden pews on a regular basis.
 
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Leaf473

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Mark 7:7-13 says they cannot be edited.
Great! Then none of the Commandments can be edited.

The Book of Leviticus is the commandments of the Lord. It would follow, then, that none of them can be edited.

Do you feel like Christ was in error in Mark 7?
No, I don't think Jesus was in error.

Is it your view that God's commandments should be edited? removed?
No, I don't think they should be edited or removed. I do think they have all been fulfilled..
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
Mark 7:7-13 says they cannot be edited.
Great! Then none of the Commandments can be edited.
Indeed - GOD is the one that makes the rules.

so is this the point where you now focus on the actual topic of this thread??

Or is this the part where you stop discussing the Sabbath and in fact stop discussing ANY of the Ten Commandments and do not even discuss the TWO commandments of Matt 22 related to the Law of Moses?

In short is this where you will choose to leap right off the topic of this entire thread as if Hebrews 10 did not exist???

An uncountable number of times you have asked to go out to topics not even on the subject of the thread when you find you do not have an answer for the point you just agreed to but in fact want to oppose.

AS I have often said - I find your logic in doing those sorts of things to be "illusive".
 
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Leaf473

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instead of a post with a false accusation and no evidence for the accusation -- Consider making a factual point that we can all take a look at.
I didn't make an accusation, either true or false; though, an accusation can be read into that, if the reader wishes.

I did make a factual point.
Another proverb


If you don't want to discuss that, here's something we could discuss:

If none of the law of the Lord can be edited, altered, modified, or removed, then that law about animal sacrifice remains in place, as well :heart:
 
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Leaf473

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BobRyan said:
Mark 7:7-13 says they cannot be edited.

Indeed - GOD is the one that makes the rules.

so is this the point where you now focus on the actual topic of this thread??

Or is this the part where you stop discussing the Sabbath and in fact stop discussing ANY of the Ten Commandments and do not even discuss the TWO commandments of Matt 22 related to the Law of Moses?

In short is this where you will choose to leap right off the topic of this entire thread as if Hebrews 10 did not exist???

An uncountable number of times you have asked to go out to topics not even on the subject of the thread when you find you do not have an answer for the point you just agreed to but in fact want to oppose.
AS I have often said - I find your logic in doing those sorts of things to be "illusive".
I understand you find my logic illusive.

The OP begins with
Is there a trend toward "fixing the Bible" where a sort of pick-and-choose even in one of the Ten Commandments that is admitted to be part of God's moral law - is "up for edit" or "up for grabs"? Is that even a thing?

I responded with
I don't know about a trend, but for myself, I don't think the Sabbath commandment should be edited any more - or any less - than any other commandment.
If you want to talk about only the Ten Commandments or only the fourth commandment, that's up to you.

The possibility of a trend of "fixing the Bible" would include much more than that :heart:
 
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BobRyan

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If you want to talk about only the Ten Commandments or only the fourth commandment, that's up to you.

The possibility of a trend of "fixing the Bible" would include much more than that :heart:
Given that the title of the thread is about the Sabbath commandment explicitly -- I think it is reasonable to at least limit one's focus to the TEN - even if you cannot bring yourself to actually focus on the Sabbath commandment.
 
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sparow

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I'm sure doctors say some parts of Leviticus 15 are good ideas. The issue is whether it's a commandment, whether it's something that has been or should be be edited.

That section continues on

Most people today would say that if a person has an oozing wound on, say, their arm, and it's under layers of bandages, other people sitting on the same pew don't have to wash the clothes they were wearing, possibly including sending their suits out for dry cleaning. Even less would people sitting on the same pew a week later have to wash their clothes. Thus, the commandment is edited.


I don't know of any church that washes down their wooden pews on a regular basis.
Biblically when something is unclean, washing it will not make it clean; washing sometimes symbolizes the removal of sin (repentance).
 
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Leaf473

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Given that the title of the thread is about the Sabbath commandment explicitly -- I think it is reasonable to at least limit one's focus to the TEN...
That's where we see it differently :heart: To me, that would be like discussing speaking in tongues, but only allowing this one verse

- even if you cannot bring yourself to actually focus on the Sabbath commandment.
I'm happy to talk about the Sabbath commandment in context with the rest of the law.

Peace be with you, my man :heart:
 
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Leaf473

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Biblically when something is unclean, washing it will not make it clean; washing sometimes symbolizes the removal of sin (repentance).
That's an interesting way of looking at it :heart: I agree that it doesn't say that it is then clean.

But this is a law. Should it be edited for today?
 
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