Even Jesus did not heal at will ...

[He put me back together]

Has anyone mentioned Luke 5:12-13?

 

[JimB]

Has anyone mentioned Luke 5:12-13?

What does it say?

 

[hislegacy]

What does it say?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Has anyone mentioned Luke 5:12-13?

Luke 5:12
[ The Man With Leprosy ] While Jesus was in one of the towns, a man came along who was covered with leprosy. When he saw Jesus, he fell with his face to the ground and begged him, "Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean."

Luke 5:13
Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" And immediately the leprosy left him.

 

[JimfromOhio]

James 4:15
Instead, you ought to say, "If it is the Lord's will, we will live and do this or that."

For those who focus on their desires (i.e. healing), that is self-centered more than God-centered. We will never know what it means to be content with God's will at any price and grow spiritually because we won't be aiming at God's will. Faith is accepting God's Will.

We are to grow when we are consumed with His will and not our own comfort and plans. I should pray according to God's will (1 John 5:14-15). The outcome is not based on our Faith or our will but rather God's will for our lives life as we serve Him on this earth.

 

[JimB]

Luke 5:12
[ The Man With Leprosy ] While Jesus was in one of the towns, a man came along who was covered with leprosy. When he saw Jesus, he fell with his face to the ground and begged him, "Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean."

Luke 5:13
Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" And immediately the leprosy left him.

Thanks for doing someone else’s job for them, Jimbohio. I figure, if someone doesn’t take the time to post the scripture (and just posts the reference), I am not going to do their work for them?

I think I get the point. Because Jesus said, in this one instance, that He was willing to heal the leper that ergo, leap of logic, it means He is willing in every instance. I think that’s a stretch, but I have heard it before.

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.​

 

[charityagape]

Actually, IMO, none of us have a perfectly objective view of anything.

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.​

No, no one is perfectly objective, but that's not what you said (nor what I said). Is this an evasive answer?

 

[JimfromOhio]

I thought I check this before leaving for the day. I will check tonight

 

[razzelflabben]

If it's an act that your healed, meaning you've come up with enough inward strength to stop drinking for a few days, is not the power of God in a persons life. The scripture says, "Whom the Lord sets free...is free indeed". You have either received it as the truth in your life, or you haven't. If you have received the power of Gods deliverance then there would be no reason to continue drinking. You would be denying the truth of that deliverance.

My brother-in-law was a cocaine addict, all the family prayed continuously for years for him to be delivered. But until He called on the name of the Lord himself, there was no deliverance. One day he did, and was immediantly delivered from cocaine. He never had another desire for cocaine. He might have been tempted in the flesh to join his old friends, and powder parties, but the knowledge of him being delivered had the pre-eminenence in his life from that day forward.

Which seems to me to be the point. There is no formula for God's deliverance, we seek God and accept His authority and strive to know Him more. That's it, pretty plan and simple.

 

[razzelflabben]

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I believe that is a small part of God's original purpose, yes, but just to add, God made Adam and Eve perfect and so originally there was no problem. The problems came after Adam and Eve sinned.

when you look up purpose, that is what comes up. God wants the physical and spiritual man to stop waring with one another. Adam and Eve's sin is what brought the war on, Christ is what will stop the waring.

[/size]
When I consider what God's "purpose" is I always look at how God originally created everything, i.e., God created everrything perfect. If Adfam and Eve never sinned they would've lived a life in a perfect state. What changed everything was there sin. Adam and Eve didn't know suffering, sickness, etc. at all until they sinned and forfieted the perfect world they were livinging in.

This may curl your toe-nails but yes, I do believe that originally God's purpose was for man to live without any sickness or any kind of suffering at all. And when this age is passed away we all will be living with God through eternity in the way God originally planned it and according to His will and desire....without suffering of anykind.

why would that curl my toe nails?

[/size][/size]
I agree with alot of this, however not all and I'm sorry I just don't have the time to answer. I however, if you understand correctly what I have told you so far I think you will get the drift of where I'm coming from and probably don't have to say too much more anyway


I don't see myself at all or in any kind of way inserting my desires in exchange for God's. I think that is a very narrow way for you to see how others disagree with you on this, although I wont argue that some may do as you say here, I don't however.

Thanks for your response, I'll be thinking of this latter forsure...

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. I'm thinking that you are assuming that I am talking about the healing is for everyone theologies. If I'm wrong please let me know. What I was referring to is anything or anyone who presumes to know what God's plan is. Notice plan is different from purpose. For example, many many people both in the Charasmatic movement and outside it, make requests of God and then deal with them as though they were God's commands. Let me think of a none healing example...a safe journey, or money for food. God is the good father who wants what's best for His children, and I think this would be the best thing, so it must be God's will, kind of attitude. This is a very bad attitude indeed, and it isn't limited to healing or Charismatic beliefs. When we presume to know God's will, His plan, we are making ourselves as God. Accepting God's authority is more along the lines of "God, I would that we have a safe trip, nevertheless, your will." or maybe, "Lord we know you are not willing that any should perish, show me how that I might be used to reach Johnny, what might I do to further your Kingdom." These examples are more in line with scripture and show us an acceptance of God's authority above our own.

 

[razzelflabben]

I believe God desires that all will come to believe Him and be born again and spend eternity with Him. However, if you don't believe in "Universalism" then you know that in this case when God desires this, He isn't going to get what He wants. That's basically it.

How much closer would God come to His desire, if we stopped going around acting like God and started acting like His servants?

 

[probinson]

How much closer would God come to His desire, if we stopped going around acting like God and started acting like His servants?

Personally, I wish people would stop acting like servants and realize they are sons.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Which seems to me to be the point. There is no formula for God's deliverance, we seek God and accept His authority and strive to know Him more. That's it, pretty plan and simple.

AND that bes about all we CAN do. We cannot fix ourselves -- not when it comes to the issue of sin. Yes, we can do self-help courses, seminars, learn to improve all kinds of human things -- our communications, our interactions, our organizational skills, etc. -- but when it comes to fixing our sin, we just plain can't. We need a Saviour, we need rescue, we need deliverance, we need God. End of issue!

 

[razzelflabben]

Personally, I wish people would stop acting like servants and realize they are sons.

Wow! that is really scary. Christ came as a servant, and we are to imitate Christ, that means, a child that is a servant. Servanthood is a mindset. A mindset of Love. The mindset of Christ. But you want people to stop living as Christ, why? Why would you want people to stop imitating Christ? What scripture gives you a right to even ask this of anyone much less believe that it is right theology??????

 

[razzelflabben]

AND that bes about all we CAN do. We cannot fix ourselves -- not when it comes to the issue of sin. Yes, we can do self-help courses, seminars, learn to improve all kinds of human things -- our communications, our interactions, our organizational skills, etc. -- but when it comes to fixing our sin, we just plain can't. We need a Saviour, we need rescue, we need deliverance, we need God. End of issue!

I'm still learning, what does bes stand for?

 

[probinson]

Wow! that is really scary. Christ came as a servant, and we are to imitate Christ, that means, a child that is a servant. Servanthood is a mindset. A mindset of Love. The mindset of Christ. But you want people to stop living as Christ, why? Why would you want people to stop imitating Christ? What scripture gives you a right to even ask this of anyone much less believe that it is right theology??????

You've made a HUGE leap of logic in saying that I want people to STOP imitating Christ. In fact, Christ was called THE SON of God, and I am calling people to realize that they are not simply servants. They are sons.

Sons have a relationship. Servants do not.

As a son, I took out the garbage. I mowed the lawn. I cleaned my room. I washed the dishes. But I also sat in my daddy's lap.

Galatians 4:7
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
​

 

[razzelflabben]

You've made a HUGE leap of logic in saying that I want people to STOP imitating Christ. In fact, Christ was called THE SON of God, and I am calling people to realize that they are not simply servants. They are sons.

Sons have a relationship. Servants do not.

As a son, I took out the garbage. I mowed the lawn. I cleaned my room. I washed the dishes. But I also sat in my daddy's lap.

Galatians 4:7
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
​

And yet Christ continued to be a servant, who what I don't get about your comment, and what scares me about it, is why admonish people to stop being servants and ask them to be sons.

Let me see if I can say this yet another way...Christ was both a servant and a son. He demonstrated that to us, many scriptures testify to it. But when I said that we should act like servants, you said, no act like sons. Now I would have understood differently if you had said, act like sons and servants, but Christ was not either or, nor can we be. A servant can be a son, in fact, many slave stories we read about show that they had fathers whom they loved very much. There is no contridiction to being both a servant and a son, yet your post seems to indicate that you can't be both.

I guess what I am saying is why do you seem to think that you can't imitate both the son and the servant in Christ?

Oh, and one more thing, we are also told that we are now friends. So that would mean that we are sons, friends, and servants, but my point was that we have stopped acting like servants and begun acting like spoiled little rich kids who get everything they want by just throwing a fit.

 

[probinson]

And yet Christ continued to be a servant, who what I don't get about your comment, and what scares me about it, is why admonish people to stop being servants and ask them to be sons.

Because sons obey out of love, not out of obligation.

Sons are not servants. Heck, Galatians 4:7 flat out tells us we are no more a servant, but a son.

You seem to think that because I say you should be a son that means that you shouldn't serve, and that's not at all true. What I am saying is that a servant does not have all the rights of a son.

I do not think of my son as a servant. I think of him as my son. That doesn't mean he doesn't have to help out and "serve", if you will, but he is by no means a servant. He is my son.

We are God's sons.

In any event, this is really not really all that relevant to this topic, so maybe I'll start another thread.

 

[pinetree]

Wow! that is really scary. Christ came as a servant, and we are to imitate Christ, that means, a child that is a servant. Servanthood is a mindset. A mindset of Love. The mindset of Christ. But you want people to stop living as Christ, why? Why would you want people to stop imitating Christ? What scripture gives you a right to even ask this of anyone much less believe that it is right theology??????

But was He not even called the SON of God?

Search son,sons,and sonship in your concordance..

You will find it is not really scary after all..

 

[probinson]

but my point was that we have stopped acting like servants and begun acting like spoiled little rich kids who get everything they want by just throwing a fit.

Nowhere did I say we are "spoiled little rich kids who get everything [we] want just by throwing a fit". I said we are SONS. The definition of a son is not a "spoiled little rich kid".