Do the scriptures reveal there will be two different raptures for the saints?

[One God and Father of All]

Believe what you will.

I only believe what I do because it’s what can be reasonably deduced from scripture..

 

[Timtofly]

Of course, Pretribbers would deny that they will even be here to face that trial. However, Antichrist surely cuts the head off of Christians, right? Why wouldn't they be warned, instead of warning Christians living in the 1st century?

No.

The AC doing what you allege comes from the fictional story of the "left behind series" of fictional assumptions of the Second Coming. That is outside of Scripture.

 

[One God and Father of All]

No.

The AC doing what you allege comes from the fictional story of the "left behind series" of fictional assumptions of the Second Coming. That is outside of Scripture.

By the time Christ comes to translate the living and resurrect the dead do you suppose it will amount to thousands or millions of the living?
The idea is that there will be millions of living persons who will suddenly disappear. I think, by that time, there will only be a few.

 

[RandyPNW]

No.

The AC doing what you allege comes from the fictional story of the "left behind series" of fictional assumptions of the Second Coming. That is outside of Scripture.

No, I'm not of the Left Behind camp, and I get my info from the book of Revelation, which we are told not to add to nor to edit in any way. The Beast takes the heads off of Christians. I don't need Darby to tell me that.

 

[Timtofly]

No, I'm not of the Left Behind camp, and I get my info from the book of Revelation, which we are told not to add to nor to edit in any way. The Beast takes the heads off of Christians. I don't need Darby to tell me that.

Then post the Scripture that states the beast takes the heads off of Christians. Darby did not write the "left behind series".

If you are post trib, you are most definitely in the "left behind camp". Post trib people are left on the earth at the 6th Seal. They are hiding in the mountains or rubble:

"And every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb."

 

[One God and Father of All]

Christian’s have so watered down the gospel that they say the only requirement is to believe Christ died for them. If nothing else is required, then naturally many would be translated among the living when Christ returns. But the fact is, many are called but only few chosen.

 

[Timtofly]

By the time Christ comes to translate the living and resurrect the dead do you suppose it will amount to thousands or millions of the living?
The idea is that there will be millions of living persons who will suddenly disappear. I think, by that time, there will only be a few.

The church is the first to be removed. I am not sure that is all 2.6 billion people who claim to be "Christians".

The dead are all resurrected. Mark 12:24-27

"And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err."

Jesus points this out prior to His own death and resurrection. Jesus never states a future single resurrection. Jesus just comments on when they are resurrected.

We know the whole OT assembly (the redeemed church) were resurrected at the Cross and permanently left death when Jesus ascended to the Father on Sunday morning. There have been no dead in Christ since the Cross. Even though Paul still refers to them as the physically dead, which is true, they were not physically dead post the Cross. They are the living in Paradise. They will all arise from Paradise and that is who the Lord brings with Him. But all in Christ since the Cross, never even tasted death, nor were bound by death. They entered Paradise alive into God's permanent incorruptible physical body. 2 Corinthians 5:1.

God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. The first resurrection has been an ongoing phenomenon since the Cross. The first resurrection is the physical resurrection of all in Christ. Even Lazarus was given the first resurrection. He was not beheaded, but still part of what is the first resurrection, physical.

 

[Timtofly]

Christian’s have so watered down the gospel that they say the only requirement is to believe Christ died for them. If nothing else is required, then naturally many would be translated among the living when Christ returns. But the fact is, many are called but only few chosen.

The term Christian started in the first century. There are entire groups of people generation after generation all over the earth who still accept the term as applying to themselves. If the Gospel was watered down, it is not just a recent phenomenon. It would have happened in every generation since the disciples generation.

 

[One God and Father of All]

God is the God of all those who died in faith. Therefore, those who have died in faith will be raised from the dead to rule with Christ. And those who are alive will be translated to also rule with him. Those who have died in faith will greatly out weigh those who are translated because the truth has been lost by false teachers.

 

[One God and Father of All]

The term Christian started in the first century. There are entire groups of people generation after generation all over the earth who still accept the term as applying to themselves. If the Gospel was watered down, it is not just a recent phenomenon. It would have happened in every generation since the disciples generation.

Yes, it started very early. James exhorted believers not to deny Christ had come in the flesh. He was not exhorting them not to believe that Christ had come at all, but not to believe that Christ had not come in the flesh of man.
What do you know about the flesh of man?

 

[One God and Father of All]

One might say “I believe Christ has come in the flesh” but, “ I don’t believe he has come in the same flesh as me”. Ok, you are an antichrist.

 

[One God and Father of All]

There are way more who believe that Christ has come in the flesh than those who believe Christ has come in the same flesh as you and me.

 

[RandyPNW]

Then post the Scripture that states the beast takes the heads off of Christians. Darby did not write the "left behind series".

Do I have to explain everything to you, Timothy? The Left Behind series is part of the Dispensationalist Eschatology founded by John Darby! The removal of heads by the Beast is obvious from Rev 20. Why do you ask such questions?

Rev 20.And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.

If you are post trib, you are most definitely in the "left behind camp".

That's truly a contradiction. You are in one or the other--not both. One is Pretrib, the other is Postrib. I've been Postrib since around 1972. Being "left behind" means you've missed a Pretrib Rapture which I *don't* believe in.

 

[Timtofly]

God is the God of all those who died in faith. Therefore, those who have died in faith will be raised from the dead to rule with Christ. And those who are alive will be translated to also rule with him. Those who have died in faith will greatly out weigh those who are translated because the truth has been lost by false teachers.

If Jesus is reigning now from Heaven, would those redeemed in Christ also be reigning with Christ?

Who are the dead? Who are those alive in Christ? Remember that God is not the God of the dead, those not in Christ, but those alive, in Christ.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, it started very early. James exhorted believers not to deny Christ had come in the flesh. He was not exhorting them not to believe that Christ had come at all, but not to believe that Christ had not come in the flesh of man.
What do you know about the flesh of man?

An antichrist is both one who denies Jesus is the Christ, and denies the relationship between God and Jesus.

On the flip side, an antichrist would be those who accept Jesus is God, but did not have a physical body.

 

[One God and Father of All]

If Jesus is reigning now from Heaven, would those redeemed in Christ also be reigning with Christ?

Who are the dead? Who are those alive in Christ? Remember that God is not the God of the dead, those not in Christ, but those alive, in Christ.

Obviously, Christ is not now reigning from heaven. Nor has he come to bring those with him to reign with him.

 

[One God and Father of All]

An antichrist is both one who denies Jesus is the Christ, and denies the relationship between God and Jesus.

On the flip side, an antichrist would be those who accept Jesus is God, but did not have a physical body.

I was speaking of the scripture which says that those who deny Christ had come in the flesh are antichrist..

 

[One God and Father of All]

An antichrist is both one who denies Jesus is the Christ, and denies the relationship between God and Jesus.

On the flip side, an antichrist would be those who accept Jesus is God, but did not have a physical body.

Actually, one is not an antichrist to deny the relationship between God and Jesus but one who denies both the Father and the son.

 

[Timtofly]

Do I have to explain everything to you, Timothy? The Left Behind series is part of the Dispensationalist Eschatology founded by John Darby! The removal of heads by the Beast is obvious from Rev 20. Why do you ask such questions?

Rev 20.And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.



That's truly a contradiction. You are in one or the other--not both. One is Pretrib, the other is Postrib. I've been Postrib since around 1972. Being "left behind" means you've missed a Pretrib Rapture which I *don't* believe in.

You insert your assumption into the verse. The verse does not say the beast chopped their heads off.

Do you think you are going to hide some place where God will not find you and give you the mark, or avoid chopping your head off?

Only those with their head chopped off, are resurrected. God does not resurrect those with the mark.

The mark is given after the final harvest. Only two options: the mark or beheading.

 

[Timtofly]

Obviously, Christ is not now reigning from heaven. Nor has he come to bring those with him to reign with him.

He is reigning from heaven. What He is not doing is reigning from Jerusalem.

His current kingdom is gathering in heaven, unseen on earth. The kingdom of God. The Millennium is on earth and the kingdom of Jesus as King per the 7th Trumpet:

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."