Different kinds of healing?

[hislegacy]

Those notes sound beyond interesting.

I have them digitized - I'm willing to share....

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

In my view, and upon what I see in the Gospels, when a blind person is prayed for and He can straightaway see clearly, then we know that the Holy Spirit acted on the prayer. If the person remains blind, then he is not healed. The Holy Spirit has not responded to the prayer. What usually happens in healing meetings is that people are prayed for and nothing happens. My view is that if the Holy Spirit is responding to the prayers, then something should happen - the person should be healed in accordance with the prayer that was prayed. One healing evangelist stated that although the person was not healed on the spot, he still got blessed by the prayer and something did happen. I disagree. If a blind person is prayed for that God would heal him so that he can see, then if God responds to the prayer the blind person should immediately be able to see.

There is no way around it. Either God is causing blind people to see, deaf people to hear, mute people to speak, lame people to walk, cerebral palsy and Parkinsons disease people immediately healed, or He is not. There is no middle position. If God is not healing people according to prayer in a church or a healing meeting, then those who are ministering should not be making excuses, but earnestly seeking God concerning why He is not honouring their prayers. There is nothing wrong with the promises in His Word, so the problem must be in those seeking to ministering healing.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

what I see in the Gospels, when a blind person is prayed for and He can straightaway see clearly

This is not true.

A couple of times Jesus ministered healing to someone and they were not healed right away.

22 When they arrived at Bethsaida, some people brought a blind man and begged Jesus to touch him. 23 So He took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village. Then He spit on the man’s eyes and placed His hands on him. “Can you see anything?” He asked.
24 The man looked up and said, “I can see the people, but they look like trees walking around.”
25 Once again Jesus placed His hands on the man’s eyes, and when he opened them his sight was restored, and he could see everything clearly. 26 Jesus sent him home and said, “Do not go back into the village.” Mark 8:22-26 (BSB)

Here Jesus had to pray twice.

11 While Jesus was on His way to Jerusalem, He was passing between Samaria and Galilee. 12 As He entered one of the villages, He was met by ten lepers. They stood at a distance 13 and raised their voices, shouting, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!”
14 When Jesus saw them, He said, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And as they were on their way, they were cleansed.
15 When one of them saw that he was healed, he came back, praising God in a loud voice. 16 He fell facedown at Jesus’ feet in thanksgiving to Him—and he was a Samaritan.
17 “Were not all ten cleansed?” Jesus asked. “Where then are the other nine? 18 Was no one found except this foreigner to return and give glory to God?”
19 Then Jesus said to him, “Rise and go; your faith has made you well!” Luke 17:11-19 (BSB)

Here they were healed as they were on their way.

It's a bit disingenuous to say that if something doesn't happen on the spot, then the Spirit hasn't responded. How are we to put a time limit on God's power?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This is not true.

A couple of times Jesus ministered healing to someone and they were not healed right away.

22 When they arrived at Bethsaida, some people brought a blind man and begged Jesus to touch him. 23 So He took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village. Then He spit on the man’s eyes and placed His hands on him. “Can you see anything?” He asked.
24 The man looked up and said, “I can see the people, but they look like trees walking around.”
25 Once again Jesus placed His hands on the man’s eyes, and when he opened them his sight was restored, and he could see everything clearly. 26 Jesus sent him home and said, “Do not go back into the village.” Mark 8:22-26 (BSB)

Here Jesus had to pray twice.

11 While Jesus was on His way to Jerusalem, He was passing between Samaria and Galilee. 12 As He entered one of the villages, He was met by ten lepers. They stood at a distance 13 and raised their voices, shouting, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!”
14 When Jesus saw them, He said, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And as they were on their way, they were cleansed.
15 When one of them saw that he was healed, he came back, praising God in a loud voice. 16 He fell facedown at Jesus’ feet in thanksgiving to Him—and he was a Samaritan.
17 “Were not all ten cleansed?” Jesus asked. “Where then are the other nine? 18 Was no one found except this foreigner to return and give glory to God?”
19 Then Jesus said to him, “Rise and go; your faith has made you well!” Luke 17:11-19 (BSB)

Here they were healed as they were on their way.

It's a bit disingenuous to say that if something doesn't happen on the spot, then the Spirit hasn't responded. How are we to put a time limit on God's power?

But that blind man was healed right then and there after the second prayer. Also the ones who were healed as they walked away, were healed less than 20 metres along the way. Those passages don't support a person in a church being prayed for and not healed before they leave the premises. Using those passages as an excuse for why God is refusing the honour prayers for healing is adapting God's Word to explain something that is never found in the Gospels. To say that God is going to heal someone eventually after prayer is giving them false information and even lying to them. This sort of thing has caused much harm to people by giving them false promises and has been the reason for much disappointment and disillusionment, and people have blamed God instead of putting the responsibility on those who lied to them about being healed when they were nothing of the sort.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

But that blind man was healed right then and there after the second prayer. Also the ones who were healed as they walked away, were healed less than 20 metres along the way. Those passages don't support a person in a church being prayed for and not healed before they leave the premises. Using those passages as an excuse for why God is refusing the honour prayers for healing is adapting God's Word to explain something that is never found in the Gospels. To say that God is going to heal someone eventually after prayer is giving them false information and even lying to them. This sort of thing has caused much harm to people by giving them false promises and has been the reason for much disappointment and disillusionment, and people have blamed God instead of putting the responsibility on those who lied to them about being healed when they were nothing of the sort.

That's not the point. You said if someone is prayed for and straightaway not healed, then it's not the Spirit. There are two accounts in scripture that disprove that.

Besides, what is the scripture reference for "If thou receiveth not healing immediately, not tis not from the Lord."

I can't find that in my Bible, nor will I put that box on God. Sure most of the time, God will heal someone right away, but there is nothing in scripture that says it must be that way. You could even make an argument that in Philippians 3:25-27, Epaphroditus was healed gradually and not immediately. I find it unlikely that Paul wouldn't have prayed for him as he was getting ill. The text doesn't say he was healed immediately, it just says he got better.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That's not the point. You said if someone is prayed for and straightaway not healed, then it's not the Spirit. There are two accounts in scripture that disprove that.

Besides, what is the scripture reference for "If thou receiveth not healing immediately, not tis not from the Lord."

I can't find that in my Bible, nor will I put that box on God. Sure most of the time, God will heal someone right away, but there is nothing in scripture that says it must be that way. You could even make an argument that in Philippians 3:25-27, Epaphroditus was healed gradually and not immediately. I find it unlikely that Paul wouldn't have prayed for him as he was getting ill. The text doesn't say he was healed immediately, it just says he got better.

I have already shown that the two references you quoted do not support gradual healing over time. I don't need to say anything more about that. There is nothing in what Paul said that shows he prayed for Epaphroditus for healing. We can't make a doctrine out of silence. The default position is that he got better naturally. I believe that if Paul had prayed for his healing then he would have been instantly healed, in the same way that Peter's mother-in-law was healed immediately when Jesus ministered to her. The healing was so instantly complete that she got up and served them.

So let's stop making up fables about why people don't get healed instantly as the result of direct prayer. Either there is something wrong with God's promises, or there is something wrong with the prayer. I think there is something wrong with the prayer, because God's promises don't lie, and the examples of healing we see through Jesus, Peter and Paul don't lie. We don't see Peter and John telling the lame man, "We will pray for you and you may get healed over the next few days." They said, "Rise up and walk!" and immediately the guy got up and walked normally. In fact he walked and leapt, praising God. Paul, in a loud voice, told a guy to stand upright on his feet, and the healing was immediate.

So let's stop making excuses and start seeking God to find out why our prayers for healing aren't working.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If a blind person is prayed for that God would heal him so that he can see, then if God responds to the prayer the blind person should immediately be able to see.

Not always - even Jesus ministered progressive healing...

Mark 8
22 And they came to Bethsaida. And some people brought a man who was blind to Jesus and begged Him to touch him. 23 Taking the man who was blind by the hand, He brought him out of the village; and after spitting in his eyes and laying His hands on him, He asked him, “Do you see anything?” 24 And he looked up and said, “I see people, for I see them like trees, walking around.” 25 Then again He laid His hands on his eyes; and he looked intently and was restored, and began to see everything clearly. 26 And He sent him to his home, saying, “Do not even enter the village.”

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Not always - even Jesus ministered progressive healing...

Mark 8
22 And they came to Bethsaida. And some people brought a man who was blind to Jesus and begged Him to touch him. 23 Taking the man who was blind by the hand, He brought him out of the village; and after spitting in his eyes and laying His hands on him, He asked him, “Do you see anything?” 24 And he looked up and said, “I see people, for I see them like trees, walking around.” 25 Then again He laid His hands on his eyes; and he looked intently and was restored, and began to see everything clearly. 26 And He sent him to his home, saying, “Do not even enter the village.”

As I said in another post on the topic when someone quoted the same passage to me, Jesus still healed the man on the spot even though it took two acts of prayer to achieve it. This is quite different to the normal results of prayer for healing - that the person is usually not healed on the spot, and the progressive healing could be explained by natural healing processes anyway.

Usually when Jesus gives a command such as go and show yourself to the priest, or go wash in the pool, or take up your bed and walk, the person is totally healed the instant he obeys the instruction. When the Holy Spirit heals a person through His power, they are instantly healed. In all the healing meetings I have been to over the years, and all the Youtube videos I have watched, I have not seen any blind people healed instantly, nor have I seen anyone with an obvious disability healed on the spot. Yet I have heard of many told they were healed of either heart failure or cancer, but ended up dying shortly after. I see that as people being lied to.

Todd Bentley and Todd White, despite all their claims, are unable to heal even a flea with a headache. All the speechmaking and promises of healing are just words that come to nothing for most people, and yet these two are the prominent promulgaters of the healing ministry.

To claim a person is going to be healed progressively as the result of prayer is a lie and not supported by the examples of the ministry of Jesus, Peter, or Paul. When they ministered healing the results were immediate and people were amazed and multitudes turned to Christ as a result. People can quote Scripture until the cows come home, but unless they can demonstrate instant healing of conditions like blindness, deafness, cerebral palsy, heart failure, influenza, Covid or any other condition that shows obvious results on the spot as the result of prayer, then they have not moved on beyond just talk.

 

[hislegacy]

To claim a person is going to be healed progressively as the result of prayer is a lie and not supported by the examples of the ministry of Jesus, Peter, or Paul.

Luke 17:13 And they lifted up their voices and said, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!”​

​

14 So when He saw them, He said to them, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed.​

​

15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, returned, and with a loud voice glorified God​

​

NOT INSTANTANEOUS

Matt 15:27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”​

​

28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.​

​

NOT INSTANTANEOUS

Acts 16:17 This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, “These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.” 18 And this she did for many days.​

​

But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour.​

​

NOT INSTANTANEOUS

Matt 8:13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.​

​

NOT INSTANTANEOUS

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Luke 17:13 And they lifted up their voices and said, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!”​

​

14 So when He saw them, He said to them, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed.​

​

15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, returned, and with a loud voice glorified God​

​

NOT INSTANTANEOUS

Matt 15:27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”​

​

28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.​

​

NOT INSTANTANEOUS

Acts 16:17 This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, “These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.” 18 And this she did for many days.​

​

But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour.​

​

NOT INSTANTANEOUS

Matt 8:13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.​

​

NOT INSTANTANEOUS

Thanks for these references. Fills in a blank in my responses.

 

[Guojing]

As I said in another post on the topic when someone quoted the same passage to me, Jesus still healed the man on the spot even though it took two acts of prayer to achieve it. This is quite different to the normal results of prayer for healing - that the person is usually not healed on the spot, and the progressive healing could be explained by natural healing processes anyway.

The proper way to understand that passage is this:

Several months earlier, Jesus had pronounced judgment on Bethsaida for its obstinate refusal to believe on Him.

Despite His many miracles in their midst, they remained in unbelief! See Matthew chapter 11: “[20] Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: [21] Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. [22] But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. [23] And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. [24] But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.”

By the time of Mark chapter 8, the Lord has already given Bethsaida over to spiritual darkness.

Consequently: (1) He does not minister in the city, (2) He insists the man be healed outside the town, (2) He directs the man not to return to the city, and (4) He orders him not to share the news of his healing with the town.

No one should used Mark 8:22-26 to defend the gradual “healings” in religion today.

This miracle is the exception as opposed to the norm. The God of the Bible can and did perform miracles immediately. Yet, Jesus needed to touch the blind man twice for him to see perfectly. Why?

This is not his gradual enlightenment but rather Israel’s enlightenment being pictured.

Bethsaida, recall, is spiritually blinded. She has been given over to darkness, just like Israel as a whole because the nation has constantly rejected Jesus these past two years (Matthew 13:10-17; Mark 4:10-12; Luke 8:9-10).

However, at Christ’s First Coming, there is a believing remnant within the nation. This remnant has been restored to spiritual sight, and the nation partially recovered from spiritual blindness.

This corresponds to the first stage of the blind man’s cure. It will not be until the second time (the second laying on of Jesus’ hands, His Second Coming) that Israel is nationally converted and given spiritual sight (cf. Romans 11:25-27).

Hence, the two stages of sight given to the blind man in Mark.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Luke 17:13 And they lifted up their voices and said, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!”​

​

14 So when He saw them, He said to them, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed.​

​

15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, returned, and with a loud voice glorified God​

​

NOT INSTANTANEOUS

Matt 15:27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”​

​

28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.​

​

NOT INSTANTANEOUS

Acts 16:17 This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, “These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.” 18 And this she did for many days.​

​

But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour.​

​

NOT INSTANTANEOUS

Matt 8:13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.​

​

NOT INSTANTANEOUS

Maybe not instantaneous, but within the hour. Notice that in each quote where Jesus said, "Let it be done for you", He did not say, "It has been done for you." Jesus did not say that any of these were healed before it actually happened.

This is quite different from a healing evangelist, as some have done, telling a sick person, "You are healed" with the result that the sick person has stopped going to the doctor and ceased his medication. As a result of this, many have become sicker, and too many have died through stopping the medication that has kept them alive. There is a big difference between saying, "Jesus heals you" and "Jesus has healed you", unless the healing has actually happened right there and then.

 

[hislegacy]

To claim a person is going to be healed progressively as the result of prayer is a lie and not supported by the examples of the ministry of Jesus, Peter, or Paul. When they ministered healing the results were immediate

When the scripture showed the error of this statement:

Maybe not instantaneous, but within the hour.

If you are going to make a definitive statement in debate, it would do you well to search the scriptures first.

 

[Dosblade]

Ever think about the Lords prayer and when it says forgive us Father of our... as we forgive those that. That was said under the law now if we jump to say the Eph and it says "forgive one another as God for Christ sake "has" forgiven you". Nothing wrong with praying the lords prayer but it was said under the law.

So healing oh man its promised though out the OT. Not worth going into if one does not truly see or understand what has already been done. Should be simple no? By His strips you were healed. Well look what the holy Spirit was saying to Jewish believers who would sin the try to offer a sacrifice for that sin. He said there is no more sacrifice for that sin. He cannot die again. Healing was already paid for. Said in Acts "And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."

There are not many in this world today that have faith like the 12 did. Some like to put it on the person they are praying for. Its not the one doing the praying no no its the one asking for prayer. Its there fault for they lacked the faith. Now there is truth in that. But in Acts "Jesus" was not on that mans mind. He was asking for something and expected to receive. Its there written for a reason. But the faith in that name was Peter and John.

If we had that faith in that name we would not be here talking but out there. We can't even believe for our selfs you think it will work on others? No. You just get out there and do it. At some point faith will come. You will be speaking what Christ said and faith will come.

So we lay hands on the sick .. there is no if or buts in that. They shall be healed. I can't say any more then this. I was thinking about some things all here know and out of no where "vipers". That was shocking. I would never ever have thought that. Which I have been

So do YOU have faith in that name? Its faith in that name. Think about everything you can...what comes close to that name? Nothing. Do you have faith in that name? They there will be fruits. If doubt.. there will be nothing and they will blame the one th4ey are praying for. Again there is truth in that. Now I believe Jesus help my doubt. Jesus had no doubt

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Ever think about the Lords prayer and when it says forgive us Father of our... as we forgive those that. That was said under the law now if we jump to say the Eph and it says "forgive one another as God for Christ sake "has" forgiven you". Nothing wrong with praying the lords prayer but it was said under the law.

So healing oh man its promised though out the OT. Not worth going into if one does not truly see or understand what has already been done. Should be simple no? By His strips you were healed. Well look what the holy Spirit was saying to Jewish believers who would sin the try to offer a sacrifice for that sin. He said there is no more sacrifice for that sin. He cannot die again. Healing was already paid for. Said in Acts "And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."

There are not many in this world today that have faith like the 12 did. Some like to put it on the person they are praying for. Its not the one doing the praying no no its the one asking for prayer. Its there fault for they lacked the faith. Now there is truth in that. But in Acts "Jesus" was not on that mans mind. He was asking for something and expected to receive. Its there written for a reason. But the faith in that name was Peter and John.

If we had that faith in that name we would not be here talking but out there. We can't even believe for our selfs you think it will work on others? No. You just get out there and do it. At some point faith will come. You will be speaking what Christ said and faith will come.

So we lay hands on the sick .. there is no if or buts in that. They shall be healed. I can't say any more then this. I was thinking about some things all here know and out of no where "vipers". That was shocking. I would never ever have thought that. Which I have been

So do YOU have faith in that name? Its faith in that name. Think about everything you can...what comes close to that name? Nothing. Do you have faith in that name? They there will be fruits. If doubt.. there will be nothing and they will blame the one th4ey are praying for. Again there is truth in that. Now I believe Jesus help my doubt. Jesus had no doubt

If a sick person calls upon the elders of the church to receive prayer from them, is that enough faith on the sick person to expect healing to happen? How much more faith is required and how does the sick person get it?

Also, when the church elder agrees to pray for the sick person, is that enough faith on his part to expect healing to happen?

If faith is believing God's Word and putting one's trust in it for healing, what more is needed in terms of faith? I thought that faith is trust, that God's Word is true and divine healing will result. But if the healing doesn't happen, does that mean that a different type of faith is needed to achieve the result. If Jesus said that if we have faith a large as a mustard seed, we should be able to move mountains. A mustard seed is one of the smallest seeds, which implies that in order to move a mountain, or heal a sick person, the very smallest amount of faith is needed. I would say that asking for and receiving prayer for healing would employ the sufficient amount of faith to achieve the healing.

So, is that happening on a regular basis in churches? If so, let's see the evidence. If not, why not?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

When the scripture showed the error of this statement:



If you are going to make a definitive statement in debate, it would do you well to search the scriptures first.

Seeing that we are discussing definitive statements, where is the actual statement from Jesus, Peter, or Paul that guaranteed healing through the laying on of hands and prayer is available on a regular basis for New Testament Christians? The only one I know about is in James concerning the Lord raising a sick person up in response to the prayer of the elders. That must have happened on a regular basis in the church where James was the leader for he to say it. Because the same is not happening on a regular basis in our churches, it might mean that modern elders do not have the same calibre as the ones in James' church.

We can't use Jesus as our example for the healing ministry, because He is unique, being God and man. We also can't use Paul or Peter's ministry as examples because they were Apostles of Christ who had signs and wonders as part of the criteria for their ministry. No one today meets the criteria for being Apostles who have signs and wonders as a regular component of his or her ministry.

What we need is a clear indication from Scripture that regular, guaranteed healing is available today for those who desire that ministry. Just because Jesus, Peter and Paul had healing as part of their ministry, it doesn't mean that we can have the same.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

You can always tell people who do not understand faith. They speak of it as if it were some mystical power of force within a person. Faith is the Word, and the Word is faith. Want faith? Get the Word. Want more faith? Get more Word. It is not magic. It is not concentrating really hard. It is not squinting your eyes really hard and shaking. It is finding a Word element and knowing it is yours. We were healed by the stripes of Jesus. God said that. It is not up for discussion. It cannot be parsed out and explained away until it means nothing. There is no time limit. There are no qualifications. It is not something that God is going to do for you one day in the future. It is something He has already done. Just like the blood of Jesus has washed away your sins. Jesus is not going to be scourged and crucified again for you. It is finished. It is a completed fact. Want faith? Just acknowledge in your heart and mind that this is true. Say "I believe in my heart that I have been healed by the stripes of Jesus." Say it every day of your life, regardless of what things look like on the outside. Do you want to please God? This is how you please God. You believe in something that is not seen. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. You doggedly hold fast to the confession of your faith... even in the face of contradictory evidence. You know and confess that God IS a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. People will resist you. That is the natural way of the world. They do not understand faith and spiritual things. But you hold fast to your confession. Like the saints discussed in Heb 11, you may never see the desired end... but you will please God. That is the prime thing. Never deny His Word. Never step back from the suffering that Jesus endured for your healing and health. Never deny His body and blood. Never cast them out in the street like they are common trash. You may not understand why something happens or does not happen. You will one day when you can sit down with Him, and He explains it to you. The question is, are you going to be apologizing to Him because you stepped back on His sacrifice? Or is He going to say to you, "Well done, my good and faithful servant." I may die ill one day... but I pray for the strength to hold fast to my confession till my last breath. Ultimately, I want to please Him. This is the most important thing.

 

[Guojing]

I may die ill one day... but I pray for the strength to hold fast to my confession till my last breath. Ultimately, I want to please Him. This is the most important thing.

There is actually another way to please him, that is to rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).

Your apostle said that clearly.

You must have realized your apostle never ask you to do what you are suggesting we do, that is

Just acknowledge in your heart and mind that this is true. Say "I believe in my heart that I have been healed by the stripes of Jesus." Say it every day of your life, regardless of what things look like on the outside. Do you want to please God? This is how you please God.

Ever wondered why, when he said 1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ?

 

[hislegacy]

Seeing that we are discussing definitive statements, where is the actual statement from Jesus, Peter, or Paul that guaranteed healing through the laying on of hands and prayer is available on a regular basis for New Testament Christians? The only one I know about is in James concerning the Lord raising a sick person up in response to the prayer of the elders. That must have happened on a regular basis in the church where James was the leader for he to say it. Because the same is not happening on a regular basis in our churches, it might mean that modern elders do not have the same calibre as the ones in James' church.

We can't use Jesus as our example for the healing ministry, because He is unique, being God and man. We also can't use Paul or Peter's ministry as examples because they were Apostles of Christ who had signs and wonders as part of the criteria for their ministry. No one today meets the criteria for being Apostles who have signs and wonders as a regular component of his or her ministry.

What we need is a clear indication from Scripture that regular, guaranteed healing is available today for those who desire that ministry. Just because Jesus, Peter and Paul had healing as part of their ministry, it doesn't mean that we can have the same.

No, we disagree.

Healing as the result of prayer has happened since the first century and happens still today.

Jesus own words

Mark 16:17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Notice those who believe. Not just the twelve.

Also notice. “They will recover”

Doesn’t say instantly made well.

Why you have not seen people healed, I don’t know, but I have seen thousands in the US, Europe and the Middle East.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

No, we disagree.

Healing as the result of prayer has happened since the first century and happens still today.

Jesus own words

Mark 16:17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Notice those who believe. Not just the twelve.

Also notice. “They will recover”

Doesn’t say instantly made well.

Why you have not seen people healed, I don’t know, but I have seen thousands in the US, Europe and the Middle East.

Having worked for the Ministry of Justice and sat through many court hearings, I know the difference between real actual evidence and hearsay. Todd Bentley, during his ministry, claimed thousands of healings, but when he was asked for just five medical reports to show actual documentary evidence, he couldn't, which showed that his claims were mainly hearsay and anecdotal and couldn't be backed up with actual evidence.

I guess you can do better than that to show that the claims of healing that you are putting forward are better than hearsay and anecdotal.

On the other hand, our brother Carl testified to some healed of cancer, and able to provide a medical report to show that although there was an initial diagnosis of cancer, a subsequent biopsy of the tissue removed showed no sign of cancer. Now that is substantive evidence that a real healing took place.