Different kinds of healing?

[hislegacy]

Having worked for the Ministry of Justice and sat through many court hearings, I know the difference between real actual evidence and hearsay. Todd Bentley, during his ministry, claimed thousands of healings, but when he was asked for just five medical reports to show actual documentary evidence, he couldn't, which showed that his claims were mainly hearsay and anecdotal and couldn't be backed up with actual evidence.

I guess you can do better than that to show that the claims of healing that you are putting forward are better than hearsay and anecdotal.

On the other hand, our brother Carl testified to some healed of cancer, and able to provide a medical report to show that although there was an initial diagnosis of cancer, a subsequent biopsy of the tissue removed showed no sign of cancer. Now that is substantive evidence that a real healing took place.

You have now brought up Todd Bentley numerous times as a measuring line. Why? What makes him so important to you?

 

[hislegacy]

First the argument was that healing had to be instant and it was shown healing wasn’t always instant.

Then it had to be within an hour

Then there was no command or instructions to pray for the sic and Jesus’ own words contradicted that

Then it is the recurring Todd Bentley comparison.

None of this negates the fact that people get healed through ministry not just in 2023, but for the last 2,000 years.

God is in no way withholding the gifts including healing.

Plain and simple truth.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You have now brought up Todd Bentley numerous times as a measuring line. Why? What makes him so important to you?

He was the "official" example of the Prosperity-guaranteed healing ministry. He was the one publicly endorsed and prophesied over as part of his commissioning. He is also one of the greatest embarrassments to that healing ministry having brought the ministry into disrepute. He was also one of the more blatant exponents of telling people they were healed when they weren't, and people died prematurely as a result from ceasing their medication and quitting seeing the doctor, and trusting in what Bentley told him of their healing.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

First the argument was that healing had to be instant and it was shown healing wasn’t always instant.

Then it had to be within an hour

Then there was no command or instructions to pray for the sic and Jesus’ own words contradicted that

Then it is the recurring Todd Bentley comparison.

None of this negates the fact that people get healed through ministry not just in 2023, but for the last 2,000 years.

God is in no way withholding the gifts including healing.

Plain and simple truth.

God is not withholding the gifts. He doesn't promise spiritual gifts to the church and then take them away again while they are still relevant and needed in the church. Therefore the fault is not with Him or the promises in His Word. The fault is within the Church itself. If you take the time to view the teaching of Leonard Ravenhill, you will see that he is pretty accurate about how the Church itself is hindering revival and the full manifestation of the gifts. He was probably the best Bible teacher to explain what the faults of the Church actually are.

 

[hislegacy]

He was the "official" example of the Prosperity-guaranteed healing ministry. He was the one publicly endorsed and prophesied over as part of his commissioning. He is also one of the greatest embarrassments to that healing ministry having brought the ministry into disrepute. He was also one of the more blatant exponents of telling people they were healed when they weren't, and people died prematurely as a result from ceasing their medication and quitting seeing the doctor, and trusting in what Bentley told him of their healing.

I never listened to one of his sermons - was he very popular in your area? is that why you think so much about him?

 

[hislegacy]

God is not withholding the gifts. He doesn't promise spiritual gifts to the church and then take them away again while they are still relevant and needed in the church. Therefore the fault is not with Him or the promises in His Word. The fault is within the Church itself. If you take the time to view the teaching of Leonard Ravenhill, you will see that he is pretty accurate about how the Church itself is hindering revival and the full manifestation of the gifts. He was probably the best Bible teacher to explain what the faults of the Church actually are.

What did he say about healing?

 

[hislegacy]

Here is my issue - healing through prayer and the laying on of hands has NEVER ended:

After the resurrection, there was a contemporary of Paul whose name was Clement who wrote that men receive gifts of healings. So, forty years after the death of Christ men were still receiving gifts of healings.

One hundred ten years after Jesus was resurrected (wouldn’t you say that the apostles weren’t around 110 years later), Iraneous wrote, “Men heal the sick by laying their hands on them for many demoniacs through the whole world and your city. Many of our Christian men exorcising them in the Name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified by Pontius Pilate, have healed and do heal.”

Two hundred years later, Origin said, “Men have marvelous powers of healing by invoking the divine Name. They expel evil spirits and perform many cures.”

Three hundred fifty years after the last apostle left the earth, St. Ambrose of Milan said, “A man of Cyrene, a butcher by trade, who became blind was healed of the Lord.”

These were happening in their church services! They are all documented accounts by the fathers of the early church. History records many such examples to help lay a solid foundation for faith in God to provide healing.

Three hundred seventy-five years after the apostles were gone, St. Marcus of Alexandria wrote, “A man withered in all his limbs, especially his feet, was anointed in the name of the Lord and, when commanded ‘In the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, arise and stand on thy feet and return to thy house,’ immediately rising up, leaping, he blessed God.”

Try telling that man healing stopped with the apostles!

Four hundred twenty-five years after the apostles, St. Augustine wrote, “But the miracles that persons ascribed to their idols are in no way comparable to the wonders wrought by our martyrs.”

Six hundred fifty years after the last apostle left the earth, a man named Beth Wagin, paralyzed on one side, prayed, and in the midst of his prayer, he fell, as it were, into a stupor, felt a large hand touch his head and he was restored to health.

For the sake of time and space, I simply cannot go into the details on the ministries of any of the great men and women God has used to impart healing over the years. In spite of this I am going to give you the dates and the names of many people who each one, as ministers, had long lists of healing connected to their ministries. In fact, healing was an earmark of their ministries. You may be surprised at some of them.

Seven hundred years after the last apostle left the earth, St. John of Beverly had a healing ministry.

Eleven hundred years—St. Francis of Assisi.

Twelve hundred years—St. Thomas of Hereford.

Thirteen hundred years—St. Catherine of Sienna.

Fourteen hundred years—Martin Luther was noted for healing in his services.

Fifteen hundred years—St. Francis Xavier and St. Philip Neri.

(We’re getting way past the apostles at this point. If healing is dead, it should have been dead by now!)

Sixteen hundred years—Pasqueles Neece and a gentleman named George Fox were noted for healing.

Seventeen hundred years—John Wesley, co-founder of the Methodist Church.

Eighteen hundred years—Prince Hohenloffe, Father Matthew and Dorithia Trudell.

Nineteen hundred years—Father John of Constadt. It is interesting to note, in the nineteen hundreds, this man was a priest who was assigned to the Russian royal family. His healing power and ministry became so famous that the Russian government was really beginning to wonder whether or not he was going to overthrow the monarchy because people would come to him before they would go to anyone else. He knew something about healing.

1901—John Alexander Dowey established a city called Zion, Illinois just east of Chicago (you can still find the city on the map). In his establishment of the town, they banished alcohol, tobacco, pork and doctors. None of it was allowed within his city. By 1910, they were recognized as the healthiest people in America. It was a presentation from the President of the United States, and it’s on public record. At one crusade in Chicago, his ministry received 60,000 testimonies of miraculous healings.

In the 1920’s we saw John G. Lake. He was a missionary who established what he called healing homes in Spokane, Washington. Five years later, the city was dedicated and declared the healthiest city in America. In five years, he had 100,000 doctor confirmed miracles. So much for the idea that the days of miracles has ended.

In the 1920’s, we saw Smith Wigglesworth rise up and bring restoration and healing, and some phenomenal testimonies—thirteen people raised from the dead!

The 1940’s saw—P. C. Nelson, F. S. Bosworth, writer of Christ The Healer. P. C. Nelson wrote the doctrinal statements for the Assemblies of God. Both noted for healings in their ministry.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What did he say about healing?

He supported all the gifts for the Church today.

 

[hislegacy]

He supported all the gifts for the Church today.

What did he say or preach about healing?

 

[hislegacy]

Leonard Ravenhill, a Methodist Evangelist. He was not Charismatic

 

[hislegacy]

He supported all the gifts for the Church today.

What did he say about healing? I can find no quotes from him on healing whatsoever

 

[Bobber]

Just this year in April....I had retina detachment. I didn't know what it was. Waited a few days...big mistake.....you wait too long even a couple of days sometimes no hope. Well it was the weekend the optometrist saw me Monday. Ok they told me then I'm urgent. I've got to get down to a bigger city which reconnects it all.
Well we got to that city....they took me in immediately. Checked it over and gave me the scoop. Because it was so long they didn't promise me a good end result. They joined it back, gas bubble in my eye....I won' get into all that....but said come back in 5 days. For 5 days I fought the fight of faith.

Declared healing declarations BASED on God's word. Not just for few minutes either.....like around the clock, thanking God praising God for healing. 5 days later I go back to this city. OK let's check it all out. One eye they tell me OK read the chart. I read down 4 lines. OK now let's see about the other. The retina detachment eye. OK let's see what you can see. I read down 4 lines. She says, "Wow!" She said you just read down 4 lines with that eye" I asked is that a good sign?

She laughed. She said what do you mean a good sign? Bob she said.....there's two type of retina detachments we call them the good kind and the bad kind. You had the bad kind. We just don't usually see anybody come back with this kind and can come back seeing what you're seeing. Well we told them we prayed and believed God.

So....they send the results across the hall to another retina specialist. It's a whole team which do different things.....She looks at the computer of the results from the first person.....she stated to me you can really see that good? I said well yeah sure. But she said but Bob when you come in here you couldn't even see. So they were bewildered somewhat and amazed.

(Now there's a Part 2 to this story which I might share sometime in the future)
I trust and hope though that if some here don't believe scriptures like Is 53:4 isn't talking about healing for even today I sincerely long for you to reconsider your position. God Bless!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Just this year in April....I had retina detachment. I didn't know what it was. Waited a few days...big mistake.....you wait too long even a couple of days sometimes no hope. Well it was the weekend the optometrist saw me Monday. Ok they told me then I'm urgent. I've got to get down to a bigger city which reconnects it all.
Well we got to that city....they took me in immediately. Checked it over and gave me the scoop. Because it was so long they didn't promise me a good end result. They joined it back, gas bubble in my eye....I won' get into all that....but said come back in 5 days. For 5 days I fought the fight of faith.

Declared healing declarations BASED on God's word. Not just for few minutes either.....like around the clock, thanking God praising God for healing. 5 days later I go back to this city. OK let's check it all out. One eye they tell me OK read the chart. I read down 4 lines. OK now let's see about the other. The retina detachment eye. OK let's see what you can see. I read down 4 lines. She says, "Wow!" She said you just read down 4 lines with that eye" I asked is that a good sign?

She laughed. She said what do you mean a good sign? Bob she said.....there's two type of retina detachments we call them the good kind and the bad kind. You had the bad kind. We just don't usually see anybody come back with this kind and can come back seeing what you're seeing. Well we told them we prayed and believed God.

So....they send the results across the hall to another retina specialist. It's a whole team which do different things.....She looks at the computer of the results from the first person.....she stated to me you can really see that good? I said well yeah sure. But she said but Bob when you come in here you couldn't even see. So they were bewildered somewhat and amazed.

(Now there's a Part 2 to this story which I might share sometime in the future)
I trust and hope though that if some here don't believe scriptures like Is 53:4 isn't talking about healing for even today I sincerely long for you to reconsider your position. God Bless!

I can't argue with the testimony like that!

 

[ARBITER01]

We can't use Jesus as our example for the healing ministry, because He is unique, being God and man. We also can't use Paul or Peter's ministry as examples because they were Apostles of Christ who had signs and wonders as part of the criteria for their ministry. No one today meets the criteria for being Apostles who have signs and wonders as a regular component of his or her ministry.

What we need is a clear indication from Scripture that regular, guaranteed healing is available today for those who desire that ministry. Just because Jesus, Peter and Paul had healing as part of their ministry, it doesn't mean that we can have the same.

Oscarr,.... wasn't it you that extolled the virtues of Maria Woodworth Etter's Evangelist ministry on here, as well as Wiggleworth's?

Jesus is absolutely our example in all of this. He was the apostles example in their walk with Him, why wouldn't He be for us also?

Don't get snookered by the hyper-faith crowd who have their failings, the same anointing that the apostles had is still available for anyone of us also, it just a big fight anymore with satan to assess it. He's the one in the way on this, besides the stupidity of people and their alternative healing ideas.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Oscarr,.... wasn't it you that extolled the virtues of Maria Woodworth Etter's Evangelist ministry on here, as well as Wiggleworth's?

Jesus is absolutely our example in all of this. He was the apostles example in their walk with Him, why wouldn't He be for us also?

Don't get snookered by the hyper-faith crowd who have their failings, the same anointing that the apostles had is still available for anyone of us also, it just a big fight anymore with satan to assess it. He's the one in the way on this, besides the stupidity of people and their alternative healing ideas.

It's always good for a spanner to go into the works concerning some of my ideas about healing. Bobber's testimony about being healed of a detached retina, on this thread clearly shows that healing does happen as the result of earnest, fervent prayer.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It's always good for a spanner to go into the works concerning some of my ideas about healing. Bobber's testimony about being healed of a detached retina, on this thread clearly shows that healing does happen as the result of earnest, fervent prayer.

Here is a good example of it...

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Oscarr,.... wasn't it you that extolled the virtues of Maria Woodworth Etter's Evangelist ministry on here, as well as Wiggleworth's?

Jesus is absolutely our example in all of this. He was the apostles example in their walk with Him, why wouldn't He be for us also?

Don't get snookered by the hyper-faith crowd who have their failings, the same anointing that the apostles had is still available for anyone of us also, it just a big fight anymore with satan to assess it. He's the one in the way on this, besides the stupidity of people and their alternative healing ideas.

Only God could do this! #sidroth #supernatural #God #Jesus #storytime | By Sid Roth's It's Supernatural | Facebook Testimonies like this is starting to get me believing more strongly that God heals more people than we think.