Did the early church worship on Sabbath?

HTacianas

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I didn't say anything of the sort. You did. You said it made no difference as to the time of day and scripture says it happened on Saturday night according to the Biblical day that went from sundown to sundown. So you'll take the word of an uninspired man over scripture?

Well if you really want to get into it, I am a gentile and the Sabbath has never applied to me. And yes, I'll take the word of Ignatius over the word of someone claiming to be a modern day prophet.
 
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DamianWarS

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Not only did the Jews come for Sabbath but the Gentiles, and in Acts we see almost the whole city wanted to be there on the Sabbath.

Acts 13:42-44
King James Version (KJV)
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Now we see the Gentiles keep the Sabbath in Antioch as we see Paul when he came there, meeting with them in the synagogue on the Sabbath day.

Acts 13:14
But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

We see much the same in the early church in Thessalonica when Paul as was his manner, entered on three Sabbath days and reasoned with them out of the scriptures.

Acts 17:2
And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

And we see more of the same in the early church in Corinth were Paul went every Sabbath and we clearly see it says "persuaded the Jews and the Greeks."

Acts 18:4
And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

And we see it was the same thing that Christ had done when He was in His ministry before Paul.

Mark 6:2
And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

Luke 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luke 4:31
And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.

As had Christ, the Paul worshiped in the early church on the seventh-day Sabbath. We clearly see that in his travels Paul attended the synagogue on the Sabbath with Gentiles and Jews, and preached Christ. Even in places where there was no synagogue, he searched for where the early church met for Sabbath worship.

We find much in history that shows the early church observing the seventh day Sabbath which nearly all Protestant, Orthodox, or Roman Catholic theologians agree was true, and showed that the Sabbath was clearly spread throughout the world in the early church.

Josephus
"There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the Barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!" M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries on China and Japan" (edited by Dennys), Vol 4, Nos 7, 8, p.100.

Philo
Declares the seventh day to be a festival, not of this or of that city, but of the universe. M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries," Vol. 4, 99

Early Christians
"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to the purpose." "Dialogues on the Lord's Day," p. 189. London: 1701, By Dr. T.H. Morer (A Church of England divine).

Early Christians
"...The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and in keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but also the command of Jesus." "Geschichte des Sonntags," pp.13, 14

2nd Century Christians
"The Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath," Gieseler's "Church History," Vol.1, ch. 2, par. 30, 93.

Early Christians
"The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;...therefore the Christians, for a long time together, did keep their conventions upon the Sabbath, in which some portions of the law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." "The Whole Works" of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX,p. 416 (R. Heber's Edition, Vol XII, p. 416).

You can find even more in this study..
at https://www.sabbath.org/index.cfm/l...ath-first-day-during-first-five-centuries.htm
The NT doesn't give us a clear model of how a Christian gathering should explicitly look like and this includes which day of the week it should be held on. This is the beauty of it of course so that it may freely be adopted in a wide away of cultural practices.

There is evidence that shows Sunday gathering as it does Saturday (Sabbath) gathering (you know the references as well as I do). In the Sabbath cases, it doesn't highlight Sabbath-keeping but rather gathering. There is nothing in these texts that indicates the Gentiles were actually keeping the Sabbath according to law or they were trying to do so. This isn't to say they weren't but the fact of the matter is the information is not there to make these assumptions.

The first "Christians" were Jews who followed Christ so it is natural for them to continue with practices and values that were modeled in their faith in Judaism. The first Gentiles may have been modeled a sort 2nd gen version and I'm sure still focused on a lot of Jewish customs so it would make sense to see Sabbath values events still happening but this doesn't make Sabbath-keeping practices implicit over these days.

Since the bible doesn't feel it important to highlight these details we need to ask what is the implicit value actually being told in the text? I personally don't see an account focused on Sabbath keeping, you may see that, but I simply don't. What I do see is a focus on how the church was expanding.
 
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Gary K

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The risen Lord was worshiped on Sunday ( Matthew 28:9) and He pronounced the great commission right afterwards ( Matthew 28:19). See Matthew 28:1-20 for full context. Sunday is the Lord’s Day ( Revelation 1:10) and the early church understood this around that time as attested to in the ancient Didache:




Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."





Where does Matthew 28: 1- 20 say the disciples went to Galilee on the same day?

You do realize you're arguing from silence from scripture don't you? Show me the evidence from scripture that the disciples went to Galilee on Sunday? It does tell us that the walk to Emmaus took place before they did that. In fact they took that walk on that same Sunday

Luke 24: 10 It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
11 And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.
12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
13 ¶And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.

I've never found a logical fallacy to be sound reasoning. There is no command in the Bible to keep Sunday.

 
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Gary K

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Well if you really want to get into it, I am a gentile and the Sabbath has never applied to me. And yes, I'll take the word of Ignatius over the word of someone claiming to be a modern day prophet.
Demonstrate where I have said I'm a prophet.
 
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Lukaris

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Where does Matthew 28: 1- 20 say the disciples went to Galilee on the same day?

You do realize you're arguing from silence from scripture don't you? Show me the evidence from scripture that the disciples went to Galilee on Sunday? It does tell us that the walk to Emmaus took place before they did that. In fact they took that walk on that same Sunday



I've never found a logical fallacy to be sound reasoning. There is no command in the Bible to keep Sunday.

I’m just reading Matthew 28 as it says and all indications are that Mary Magdalene & the women worshiped the Lord & some of the disciples did also. The early Church records and Revelation 1:10 records the Lord’s Day as Sunday.

I believe a Sabbath keeper can be Christian and they have their tradition. If they know the Trinity, the Lord Jesus Christ & keep His commandments ( John 14:15-18, Matthew 22:36-40 etc) that is what is most important.
 
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Gary K

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The NT doesn't give us a clear model of how a Christian gathering should explictly look like and this includes which day of the week it should be held on. This is the beauty of it of course so that it may freely be adopted in a wide away of cultural practices.

There is evidence that shows Sunday gathering as it does Saturday (Sabbath) gather (you know the references as well as I do). In the Sabbath cases it doesn't highlight Sabbath keeping but rather gathering. There is nothing in these text that indicate the gentiles were actually keeping Sabbath according to law. This isn't to say they weren't but it the fact of the matter is the information is not there to make those conclusions.

The first "Christians" were jews who followed Christ so it is natural for them to continue on with practices and values they were modeled in their faith The first Gentiles may have been modeled a sort of revived in Christ version but still focused on a lot of Jewish customs so it would make sense to see Sabbath values events still happening but this doesn't make Sabbath keeping practices implict over these days.

Since the bible doesn't feel it important to highlight these details we need to ask what is the implict value actually being told in the text? I personally don't see an account focused on Sabbath keeping, you may see that, I simply don't. What I do see is a focus on how the church was expanding.
So you're arguing from silence? Bad idea. Do you really think no Jew who became a Christian would object to that? It would have been a huge controversy in the early church just like circumcision was. You really think Paul wouldn't have had to deal with that?

Acts 11: 2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,

Acts 11: 2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,

Acts 11: 1 And certain men which came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Acts 15: 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Acts 15: 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I’m just reading Matthew 28 as it says and all indications are that Mary Magdalene & the women worshiped the Lord & some of the disciples did also. The early Church records and Revelation 1:10 records the Lord’s Day as Sunday.

I believe a Sabbath keeper can be Christian and they have their tradition. If they know the Trinity, the Lord Jesus Christ & keep His commandments ( John 14:15-18, Matthew 22:36-40 etc) that is what is most important.
I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, Rev 1:10

Where does this verse say the first day is the Lords Day without adding it to Gods Word- which is clearly prohibited Revelation 22:18-19

I think we should trust God, His spoken and written Word as no one is above Him.

Which day is God's holy day? Lets let God answer this...

One thing these verses all have in common is it has a thus saith the Lord attached. This argument is not with man regarding His holy day that is a commandment of God Exo 20:8-11

Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

Eze 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’

Isa 58:13 If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”


Isa 56
Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,

5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give [a]them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant



Isaiah 66:23 And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
 
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Gary K

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I’m just reading Matthew 28 as it says and all indications are that Mary Magdalene & the women worshiped the Lord & some of the disciples did also. The early Church records and Revelation 1:10 records the Lord’s Day as Sunday.

I believe a Sabbath keeper can be Christian and they have their tradition. If they know the Trinity, the Lord Jesus Christ & keep His commandments ( John 14:15-18, Matthew 22:36-40 etc) that is what is most important.
I disagree with the first part of your post. Of course the women and disciples worshiped Jesus. He is God. That doesn't mean that Jesus commanded them to worship on Sunday. You did notice they worshiped Him instinctively without a command?
 
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prodromos

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You missed an important detail, The Jewish day began and ended at sundown. Thus they were meeting on the first day of the week theu were meeting on Saturday night
You just contradicted yourself. If it is after sundown, it is no longer Saturday. What you call Saturday night is the beginning of Sunday.

Because Sunday was a work day, the Christians gathered very early, before the dawn, because after the sun rose on Sunday, most had to go to work.
 
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reddogs

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The NT doesn't give us a clear model of how a Christian gathering should explictly look like and this includes which day of the week it should be held on. This is the beauty of it of course so that it may freely be adopted in a wide away of cultural practices.

There is evidence that shows Sunday gathering as it does Saturday (Sabbath) gather (you know the references as well as I do). In the Sabbath cases it doesn't highlight Sabbath keeping but rather gathering. There is nothing in these text that indicate the gentiles were actually keeping Sabbath according to law. This isn't to say they weren't but it the fact of the matter is the information is not there to make those conclusions.

The first "Christians" were jews who followed Christ so it is natural for them to continue on with practices and values they were modeled in their faith The first Gentiles may have been modeled a sort of revived in Christ version but still focused on a lot of Jewish customs so it would make sense to see Sabbath values events still happening but this doesn't make Sabbath keeping practices implict over these days.

Since the bible doesn't feel it important to highlight these details we need to ask what is the implict value actually being told in the text? I personally don't see an account focused on Sabbath keeping, you may see that, I simply don't. What I do see is a focus on how the church was expanding.
I think Christ made it quite clear...
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
 
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JSRG

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Its all over history if you just look, but then would you be convinced is the question..

I think this is the page I got it from....https://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/sabbath-through-the-centuries/id/3rd-century#history

So again, you're just copying and pasting unverified claims from a website that itself is just copying and pasting those unverified claims. It's a pattern I've noticed from you.

Anyway, I'm actually familiar with most of these quotes (I spent some time looking into them because people so frequently copy and paste them without checking them), so let's take a look at the sources.

Early Christians-C 3rd

"Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands." "The Anti-Nicene Fathers," Vol 7,p. 413. From "Constitutions of the Holy Apostles," a document of the 3rd and 4th Centuries.

The quote itself states that it was a rest for meditation, not for idleness of hands. It therefore rejects the claim that Saturday rest was practiced by the church.

Africa (Alexandria) Origen

"After the festival of the unceasing sacrifice (the crucifixion) is put the second festival of the Sabbath, and it is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to keep also the festival of the Sabbath. There remaineth therefore a sabbatismus, that is, a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God (Hebrews 4:9)." "Homily on Numbers 23," par.4, in Migne, "Patrologia Graeca," Vol. 12,cols. 749, 750.

There is an English translation of this work available now, and in it we see Origen says "Therefore, leaving behind the judaic observances of the sabbath, let us see what sort of observation of the sabbath there ought to be for the Christian." He goes on to assert that on the Sabbath, "worldly activity" and "secular works" are not to be carried out, but says nothing about labor in general, and as noted rejects "judaic observances of the sabbath".

Palestine to India (Church of the East)

As early as A.D. 225 there existed lallrge bishoprics or conferences of the Church of the East (Sabbath-keeping) stretching from Palestine to India. Mingana, "Early Spread of Christianity." Vol.10, p. 460.

There is no volume 10 of Early Spread of Christianity. "Early Spread of Christianity" is an article that comes from volume 10 of the Bulletin of the John Rylands Library. This is how we know the citation was just copy and pasted, for otherwise it would be stated more clearly.

In any event, Mingana says nothing at all about the churches being Sabbath keeping on the applicable page, nor does he (as far as I can tell) mention the Sabbath at all in his article.

India (Buddhist Controversy, 220 A.D.)

The Kushan Dynasty of North India called a famous council of Buddhist priests at Vaisalia to bring uniformity among the Buddhist monks on the observance of their weekly Sabbath. Some had been so impressed by the writings of the Old Testament that they had begun to keep holy the Sabbath. Lloyd, "The Creed of Half Japan," p. 23.

This entire portion is utter nonsense. The council (called the Second Buddhist Council) in question didn't happen in 220 AD; it was held a century after the death of Buddha. We don't know the exact year of Buddha's death, but that would put the council centuries before the birth of Jesus. The Creed of Half Japan never dates it to 220 AD, so I have no idea why you or the person you copied from think it's at that date.

Furthermore, the council had nothing to do with the weekly Sabbath. The dispute was about Uposathas, which were mandated days of rest in Buddhism. While there are similarities to Sabbath rest in that they were rest days, they weren't weekly and on Saturday. However, the term was still translated by some as "sabbaths", including Creed of Half Japan (earlier on page 16, however, it clarifies that these "sabbaths" were uposathas).

So not only did it have nothing to do with the Saturday Sabbath, it occurred in pre-Christian times.


Italy AND EAST-C 4th

"It was the practice generally of the Easterne Churches; and some churches of the west...For in the Church of Millaine (Milan);...it seems the Saturday was held in a farre esteeme... Not that the Easterne Churches, or any of the rest which observed that day, were inclined to Iudaisme (Judaism); but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Iesus (Jesus) Christ the Lord of the Sabbath." "History of the Sabbath" (original spelling retained), Part 2, par. 5, pp.73, 74. London: 1636. Dr. Heylyn.

The quote says nothing at all about them observing Sabbath rest or thinking it was required. Indeed, on the prior page, Heylyn writes "As for the Saturday, that retained its wounted credit in the Easterne Church; little inferior to the Lords day; if not plainely equall: not as a Sabbath, thinke not so, but as a day designed unto sacred meetings."

Italy - Milan

"Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan, said that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday, but when in Rome observed Sunday. This gave rise to the proverb, 'When you are in Rome, do as Rome does.'" Heylyn, "The History of the Sabbath" (1612)

Curiously, despite the fact that Heylyn's work is referred in the preceding citation, no page number is offered here. Thus I cannot look this up in the work for sure.

However, your copy-and-pasted citation woefully misrepresents what was happening. This whole incident is mentioned to us in Letter 54 of Augustine, where this entire incident was clearly about fasting practices. Some areas (like Rome) fasted on Saturday, others (like Milan) did not, and Augustine says that Ambrose gave the advice of, when travelling, to follow the local practices of your area. Sunday is not even mentioned by Ambrose or Augustine; that is being inserted into this claim to try to make it look like it's about resting when it isn't.

Orient And Most Of World

"The ancient Christians were very careful in the observance of Saturday, or the seventh day...It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival...Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assembles on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same." "Antiquities of the Christian Church," Vol.II Book XX, chap. 3, sec.1, 66. 1137,1138.

Even the quote offered only says it was a "festival" and that they had religious assembles. So this again doesn't prove the point of them seeing Sabbath rest as required. Indeed, the author on the next page denies it:

"If it be inquired, why the ancient church continued the observation of the Jewish sabbath, when they took it to be only a temporary institution given to the Jews only, as circumcision and other typical rites of the law; (which is expressly said by many of the ancient writers, particularly by Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Eusebius, to name no more) it is answered by learned men, that it was to comply with the Jewish converts, as they did in the use of many other indifferent things, so long as no doctrinal necessity was laid upon them... But when any one pretended to carry the observation of it further, either by introducing a doctrinal necessity, or pressing the observation of it precisely after the Jewish manner, they resolutely opposed it, as introducing Judaism into the Christian religion."

Abyssinia - Remnants of Philip's Evangelism

"In the last half of that century St. Ambrose of Milan stated officially that the Abyssinian bishop, Museus, had 'traveled almost everywhere in the country of the Seres' (China). For more than seventeen centuries the Abyssinian Church continued to sanctify Saturday as the holy day of the fourth commandment." Ambrose, DeMoribus, Brachmanorium Opera Ominia, 1132, found in Migne, Patrologia Latima, Vol.17, pp.1131,1132.

The work in question is actually found on columns 1167 to 1184 (copying and pasting strikes again!). Now, the work is in Latin so I cannot really read it, though I know enough to note that in the introduction of the compilation being cited, the editor mentions says there is question about whether Ambrose actually wrote it. Accepting he did and that he did mention Museus traveling around, how does this prove anything about Sabbath keeping? I'm going to assume the work said nothing about that, or else we would have seen that quoted rather than just a vague statement about someone traveling around.

Arabia, Persia, India, China

"Mingana proves that in 370 A.D. Abyssinian Christianity (a Sabbath keeping church) was so popular that its famous director, Musacus, travelled extensively in the East promoting the church in Arabia, Persia, India and China." "Truth Triumphant,"p.308 (Footnote 27). (Page numbers vary in this Online version of Truth Triumphant)

Truth Triumphant was a polemical work trying to argue for Seventh Day Adventist beliefs, so there's obvious bias here. Still, let's take a look at the claim. It mentions that "page numbers vary" but apparently so does the footnote number, as it's footnote 23 in the linked version. What the footnote begins with is:

"Mingana proves that as early as A.D. 225 there existed large bishoprics or conferences of the Church of the East stretching from Palestine to, and surrounding, India. In 370 Abyssinian Christianity (a Sabbathkeeping church) was so popular that its famous director, Musaeus, traveled extensively in the East promoting the church in Arabia, Persia, India, and China."

So all it seems to say is that Mingana proves that there were Christian churches in the third century in Palestine and India. The "370 AD" seems to be a separate thing. Even if it is claiming they're combined, as noted earlier I don't think Mingana said anything at all about the Sabbath. Perhaps the claim that it was "a Sabbathkeeping church" comes from what follows in the footnote, namely "These churches were sanctifying the seventh day, as can be seen by the famous testimonies of Socrates and Sozomen, Roman Catholic historians (c. A.D. 450), that all the churches throughout the world sanctified Saturday except Rome and Alexandria, which two alone exalted Sunday." This, however, is a massive misrepresentation on the part of Truth Triumphant of what Socrates and Sozomen actually wrote... it also misleadingly calls them as Roman Catholics even though Sozomen was from Constantinople and Socrates was Greek. Socrates and Sozomen sometimes get cited by people who try to claim they refer to Sabbath observance everywhere but Alexandria and Rome, but what they actually refer to is whether people had religious assemblies on that day or not. Nothing at all about Sabbath rest observance.

So Truth Triumphant ultimately does not provide evidence for the assertion, or that Mingana made this claim.

Spain - Council Elvira (A.D.305)

Canon 26 of the Council of Elvira reveals that the Church of Spainat that time kept Saturday, the seventh day. "As to fasting every Sabbath: Resolved, that the error be corrected of fasting every Sabbath." This resolution of the council is in direct opposition to the policy the church at Rome had inaugurated, that of commanding Sabbath as a fast day in order to humiliate it and make it repugnant to the people.

There is considerable speculation going on here ("commanding Sabbath as a fast day in order to humiliate it and make it repugnant to the people"?), but once again nothing at all about Sabbath rest is discussed, merely whether it's a fast day. However, the canon is worded so ambiguously that people don't know whether it's correcting the error of them fasting on the Sabbath or whether it's correcting the error of them not fasting on the Sabbath! As a work about the Council of Elvira discussed here:

"In Elv. XXVI the brevity of the Canon has made its force exceptionally ambiguous, and caused grave doubt whether it is to be interpreted as a precept or a prohibition."

Spain

It is a point of further interest to note that in north-eastern Spainnear the city of Barcelona is a city called Sabadell, in a district originaly inhabited. By a people called both "Valldenses" and Sabbatati."

No citation is given, and irrelevant anyway.

Persia-A.D. 335-375 (40 Years Persecution Under Shapur II)

The popular complaint against the Christians-"They despise our sungod, they have divine services on Saturday, they desecrate the sacred the earth by burying their dead in it." (Truth Triumphant, Online Version p. 261)

Truth Triumphant gives no source for this quote. Even if true, all it says is they had divine services on Saturday, not that it was a day of required rest.

Persia-A.D. 335-375

"They despise our sun-god. Did not Zorcaster, the sainted founder of our divine beliefs, institute Sunday one thousand years ago in honour of the sun and supplant the Sabbath of the Old Testament. Yet these Christians have divine services on Saturday." O'Leary, "The Syriac Church and Fathers," pp.83, 84.

As far as I can tell, this quote is not found in the book.

....All the way to present day.....

Roman Catholic


“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day. The Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xix) condemns those who deny that the Ten Commandments are binding on Christians." The Catholic Encyclopedia, Commandments of God, Volume IV, © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company - Online Edition © 1999 by Kevin Knight, Nihil Obstat - Remy Lafort, Censor Imprimatur - +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York, page 153.

'Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'' Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

“If Protestants would follow the Bible, they would worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church.” Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920.
The last few copied-and-pasted quotes are not even particularly relevant, just being some quotes from vaguely cited Catholic sources saying that the sanctification of Sunday was an institution of the Catholic Church. Even if this is true, it proves nothing at all about what the early Christians were doing in regards to Sabbath rest. Perhaps the argument is supposed to be that if these sources are correct, then it would mean the church observed Saturday Sabbath rest in the early centuries, and the mentioned change in the above quotes came later. None of the above quotes actually make such a statement, though, and even if they did, the only one of those that can be considered an actual scholarly source is the Catholic Encyclopedia.

If we're to trust the Catholic Encyclopedia, let's see what it says in its article on Sunday: "Sunday was the first day of the week according to the Jewish method of reckoning, but for Christians it began to take the place of the Jewish Sabbath in Apostolic times as the day set apart for the public and solemn worship of God." Thus the "changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first" mentioned by the Catholic Encyclopedia occurred, according to the CE, in the apostolic age.

So this big copy and pasted list of quotes really doesn't show the early church believing the Sabbath rest must still be followed.
 
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Gary K

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You just contradicted yourself. If it is after sundown, it is no longer Saturday. What you call Saturday night is the beginning of Sunday.

Because Sunday was a work day, the Christians gathered very early, before the dawn, because after the sun rose on Sunday, most had to go to work.
Sundown to sundown was the Biblical day.

Genesis 1: 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day

Genesis 1: 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So the Biblical day was from sundown to sundown.
 
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daq

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Sundown to sundown was the Biblical day.







So the Biblical day was from sundown to sundown.

The evening portion of the day is six hours while the morning portion of the day is also six hours. The biblical civil calendar day is twelve hours, not twenty-four, and this is expounded in Numbers 7 and confirmed by the Master himself in John 11:9 and other of his parables in the Synoptic Gospel accounts.

Moreover, as you have quoted, an evening and a morning are a yom. The evening portion of the day commences "when the women go forth to draw water", (an idiom), and this is stated in Genesis 24:11, which says, And he made his camels to kneel down without the city by a well of water, at the time of the evening, the time that women go out to draw water.

This time of day is the tzohorim hour, that is, midday, the sixth hour of the twelve hour civil calendar day, and this is expounded in John 4:6-7, where we are specifically informed that the Master sat down at the well of Yakob at about the sixth hour, and the woman of Samaria comes to draw water, referencing the idiom from Genesis 24:11.

John 4:6-7 KJV
6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

The Apostolic writings are full of calendar teachings, both the civil calendar day of twelve yom-hours in a yom-day, which is taught in Numbers 7, and the sacred calendar day of seven yamim-hours in a yom-day, which is taught in the opening creation account and in the Torah. The things taught concerning the calendar in the Torah, the Gospel accounts, and the Apostolic writings, do not agree with the modern Jewish reckoning of the day which you are preaching, (and neither do the Yhudim in the Gospel accounts appear to be observing what is now taught by modern Judaism).
 
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Soyeong

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If we read Acts:

Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Are we to assume that the Apostles' doctrine included simply having lunch? But if we read this in the Peshitta:

Acts 2:42 - And they were faithful in the doctrine of the apostles, and participated in prayer and in the breaking of the eucharist.

And then back up to Acts 20:7:

Acts 20:7 - AND on the first day in the week, when we were assembled to break the eucharist, Paulos discoursed with them, because the day following he was to depart; and he prolonged his discourse until the dividing of the night.
The command to keep the 7th day holy does not prohibit meeting on other days of the week, so there is nothing about meeting on the 1st day of the week that suggests that they were establishing their own tradition of doing that instead of obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy, especially because Jews have a longstanding tradition of meeting on the 1st day of the week for a Havdalah service to mark the end of the Sabbath and the start of the work week.

Now, we're supposed imagine -once again- that the entire Church fell into some sort of apostasy then someone came along all these years later to straighten everyone out. Now all we have to do is guess at which one of the countless thousands to come along and make the claim are right. And even though it says:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

One -maybe more- of those countless thousands comes along and judges me in meat and drink and the keeping of Sabbaths.
Colossians 2:16 in itself leaves room for two possibilities:

1.) The Colossians were not keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by Jews because they were not, and Paul was encouraging them not let anyone judge them for not keeping them.

2.) The Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands, they were being judged by pagans because they were doing that, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them for obeying God.

In Colossians 2:16-23, Paul described the people judging them as teaching human precepts and traditions, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so #2 is the case, which it is ironic when people cite Colossians 2:16 to justify their refusal to obey what God has commanded.
 
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prodromos

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Sundown to sundown was the Biblical day.


So the Biblical day was from sundown to sundown.
You said Paul preached from morning until midnight. That is not correct. Paul preached from after sundown on the Sabbath, that is, Sunday, until midnight.
 
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DamianWarS

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So you're arguing from silence? Bad idea. Do you really think no Jew who became a Christian would object to that? It would have been a huge controversy in the early church just like circumcision was. You really think Paul wouldn't have had to deal with that?

Acts 11: 2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,

Acts 11: 2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,

Acts 11: 1 And certain men which came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Acts 15: 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Acts 15: 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
You are also arguing from silence as you've inserted between the lines what you want the text to say but the text does not say the Gentiles were keeping the sabbath, nor does the council in Acts 15 give instruction regarding sabbath keeping. the difference is I'm not arguing for or against, I'm saying the text doesn't have enough to support either view. In fact, there is no NT commandment to keep the Sabbath so to accuse me of an argument from silence seems misplaced.
 
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Gary K

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You said Paul preached from morning until midnight. That is not correct. Paul preached from after sundown on the Sabbath, that is, Sunday, until midnight.
I agree with your position. I was replying to someone who ignores the Biblical started during the creation week.
 
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Gary K

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The evening portion of the day is six hours while the morning portion of the day is also six hours. The biblical civil calendar day is twelve hours, not twenty-four, and this is expounded in Numbers 7 and confirmed by the Master himself in John 11:9 and other of his parables in the Synoptic Gospel accounts.

Moreover, as you have quoted, an evening and a morning are a yom. The evening portion of the day commences "when the women go forth to draw water", (an idiom), and this is stated in Genesis 24:11, which says, And he made his camels to kneel down without the city by a well of water, at the time of the evening, the time that women go out to draw water.

This time of day is the tzohorim hour, that is, midday, the sixth hour of the twelve hour civil calendar day, and this is expounded in John 4:6-7, where we are specifically informed that the Master sat down at the well of Yakob at about the sixth hour, and the woman of Samaria comes to draw water, referencing the idiom from Genesis 24:11.

John 4:6-7 KJV
6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

The Apostolic writings are full of calendar teachings, both the civil calendar day of twelve yom-hours in a yom-day, which is taught in Numbers 7, and the sacred calendar day of seven yamim-hours in a yom-day, which is taught in the opening creation account and in the Torah. The things taught concerning the calendar in the Torah, the Gospel accounts, and the Apostolic writings, do not agree with the modern Jewish reckoning of the day which you are preaching, (and neither do the Yhudim in the Gospel accounts appear to be observing what is now taught by modern Judaism).
So the rotation speed of the earth has changed twice? Once between creation and Paul's day and once since than as we now have a 24 hour day once again.
 
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HTacianas

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You just contradicted yourself. If it is after sundown, it is no longer Saturday. What you call Saturday night is the beginning of Sunday.

Because Sunday was a work day, the Christians gathered very early, before the dawn, because after the sun rose on Sunday, most had to go to work.

That is confirmed even by outside sources. In a letter to Trajan written circa 112 AD, Pliny wrote of the Christians in Bithynia:

They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food.

The "ordinary and innocent food" is a story in itself. When Constantine legalized Christianity he ordered that all businesses be closed on Sunday to allow Christians to worship in their accustomed manner.
 
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That is confirmed even by outside sources. In a letter to Trajan written circa 112 AD, Pliny wrote of the Christians in Bithynia:

They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food.

The "ordinary and innocent food" is a story in itself. When Constantine legalized Christianity he ordered that all businesses be closed on Sunday to allow Christians to worship in their accustomed manner.
Where is you evidence for your claim about Constantine's declaration?
 
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