8 states are planning to BAN the sale of gas-powered cars entirely - after Biden unveiled ambitious plans to phase them out by 2032

[SimplyMe]

Heavier cars need larger tires, more of the hazardous tire material goes into the environment, and there is more wear and tear on the roads with more weight.

Oh, how much larger are electric vehicle tires? I think if we do a survey, we'd find that most EVs have similar tires than ICE vehicles; and that they tend to be a harder compound to aid with fuel economy (low rolling resistance) -- meaning that the tires don't wear faster.

Once you've proven that, again, how do EVs compare to the wear and tear trucks cause? And we aren't talking solely about 18-wheelers but even "light" trucks -- these things typically weigh as much, or more, as EVs (such as the Ford F-150). It also helps if you realize that 63% of all vehicles sold in 2021 were classified as "light trucks," since the light truck category includes SUVs which are currently so popular. And to be clear, light trucks can weigh as much as 8,500 pounds.

Can you explain why I've never seen you complain about the wear and tear of SUV tire's, and how much they damage the road, when they often weigh at least as much as an EV? Why is your argument limited to EVs?

My whole point here is that it is not a slam dunk by any means. Such drastic government interference in the private markets, ESPECIALLY with such an unclear positive effect, is reckless and foolhardy.

So you claim, but you've provided no evidence to support your claim. In the meantime, there have been EVs on the roads for over a decade from multiple manufacturers; Tesla being the one people think of the most, but also GM and Nissan. It would seem there has been a "pilot program" and we are seeing results already.

I could make a case for hydrogen vehicles, just like you by claiming "we" (whoever that may be) are working on future improvements, that doesn't mean that a plan to make hydrogen vehicles half of all vehicles in ten years is wise.

Largely because hydrogen has been attempted, another "pilot program," if you will, and it has failed. Over roughly the last decade, about three manufacturers have sold hydrogen vehicles -- models by Honda, Hyundai, and Toyota (the three I'm aware of, off the top of my head). In that time they suffered from poor sales, despite all of them basically paying for all fuel for the car for at least three years. At least part of this is because almost all of the hydrogen refill stations are in Los Angeles, with I believe a couple in the San Francisco area. Also, with hydrogen prices at $36/kg at the charging stations that do exist (that is without the various taxes that gasoline has), meaning it can be quite expensive to drive when you can get maybe 65 miles per kg.

Without a successful pilot program this is a recipe for disaster.

I asked before, what type of pilot program? What would it tell us that we haven't learned from the last decade of EVs?

There can be unforeseen consequences, maybe more deaths in vehicle accidents with heavier cars.

But, again, we are already there with current ICE vehicles. The average weight of a new car last year was 4,329 lbs.; roughly the same as the EVs currently on the market. You seem to be cherry picking things to try and find issues with EVs, rather than looking at the reality of what the new car market is today in the US.

And most of all that is not the kind of decision that should be left up to a president and some un-elected advisors. It's the same as if Joe ordered that programs be put in place to have half of the families in the country go meatless in ten years. That's not what a president is supposed to be doing. A president is supposed to protect the rights of citizens, not impinge upon them.

And now we can tell that you are just making it up as you go along. As an example, you had zero issues with Pres. Trump unilaterally trying to change election results in 2020 because you felt it wasn't fair -- you had no actual evidence, just things that you thought didn't make sense (even if they made sense to most other people). It didn't matter if it infringed on American's Rights, you felt it was justified because you supported him.

I've shown they offer public comments, and how Pres. Biden has even pushed back some of the plans of the EPA. But, you don't like Biden so push this narrative of how he isn't protecting citizens because he is doing something you disagree with politically -- without any claims of laws he is breaking.

 

[weekEd]

yeah bu abawanna a lamborghini..

 

[essentialsaltes]

Disneyland is moving away from gas-powered cars for Autopia attraction​

“As the industry moves toward alternative fuel sources, we have developed a roadmap to electrify this attraction and are evaluating technology that will enable us to convert from gas engines in the next few years,” Jessica Good, a Disneyland Resort spokesperson, said in an email to the publication.

The classic attraction, popular among young guests who get to experience driving for the first time, is as old as Disneyland itself, opening with the theme park in 1955.

 

[RoBo1988]

Rhode Island was the most recent state to join the list of states pledging to ban the sale of gas-powered cars, joining Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon and Washington.
According to the site, the District of Columbia has also made the commitment.

These 8 states are planning to BAN the sale of gas-powered cars

At least eight states are planning to ban the sale of new gas-powered cars in the next decade - and others are considering joining them.

www.dailymail.co.uk

What you don't see are the plans for updating our nation's power grid. Of course there is no way our current power grid can handle the massive switch-over to EVs. That is, unless driving is slashed through government rationing of electricity.

You will get your bus, and rail passes, when you report to your local komissar, for insect rations.

No cars for you!

 

[Pommer]

Disneyland is moving away from gas-powered cars for Autopia attraction​

“As the industry moves toward alternative fuel sources, we have developed a roadmap to electrify this attraction and are evaluating technology that will enable us to convert from gas engines in the next few years,” Jessica Good, a Disneyland Resort spokesperson, said in an email to the publication.

The classic attraction, popular among young guests who get to experience driving for the first time, is as old as Disneyland itself, opening with the theme park in 1955.

Maybe they’ll do a “Yesterday World” where the ICE vehicles can play?

 

[weekEd]

You will get your bus, and rail passes, when you report to your local komissar, for insect rations.

No cars for you!

That's what we have now

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

Rhode Island was the most recent state to join the list of states pledging to ban the sale of gas-powered cars, joining Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon and Washington.
According to the site, the District of Columbia has also made the commitment.

These 8 states are planning to BAN the sale of gas-powered cars

At least eight states are planning to ban the sale of new gas-powered cars in the next decade - and others are considering joining them.

www.dailymail.co.uk

What you don't see are the plans for updating our nation's power grid. Of course there is no way our current power grid can handle the massive switch-over to EVs. That is, unless driving is slashed through government rationing of electricity.

Rural Oregon & Washington shall never comply! Upstate NY and western Mass are pretty rural & wild also.

Ok, that car's in British Columbia, eh? But close enough to Washington!

 

[Bradskii]

Maybe they’ll do a “Yesterday World” where the ICE vehicles can play?

Daddy, why's it making all that noise and what's the funny smell?

 

[weekEd]

Rural Oregon & Washington shall never comply! Upstate NY and western Mass are pretty rural & wild also.

View attachment 345137


Ok, that car's in British Columbia, eh? But close enough to Washington!

Tesla plaid would eat that before leaving the driveway

 

[Valletta]

Except when you look at those outages, almost all are talking about natural disasters that destroy the current infrastructure -- they were not caused by a lack of power generation. Even if you look at the Texas outage in February of 2021 and try to claim that was lack of "power generation," the issue isn't that they didn't have enough power generation capacity, it was caused by lack of winterization that caused the power plants to fail. So this argument has zero to do with EVs or the extra power they might need.

Instead, I'll leave a YouTube video below which addresses the amount of extra power we need for EVs. What he determines is you need about 30% more power in the grid. He also finds that, historically, we've added roughly 4% capacity to our electrical grid every year over the last 60-ish years. At that rate, it would take 6.5 years to improve the grid to generate the extra power needed for EVs. He also uses the example of Air Conditioners (AC), which use an equivalent amount (at least on the days AC is needed) to the amount of power an EV would use -- and how the US managed to build the grid out so that we had the power for the increased adoption of AC. This isn't the overwhelming issue that the anti-EV people thinks it is. And it is even less of an issue when you can use things like lower electric rates at night, which will cause many EV owners to charge at night when power usage tends to be much lower -- flatten the "power curve" if you will -- which means the actual strain on the power grid is far less than what is trying to be claimed.

From the Washington Post:

Amid explosive demand, America is running out of power

- - - Correction: A previous version of this article incorrectly said the revised forecast for power needs in Georgia showed power use in the state increasing 17 times. New demand, not total demand, is projected to increase 17 times. The article also misspelled the name of the agency that...

www.yahoo.com

 

[SimplyMe]

From the Washington Post:

Amid explosive demand, America is running out of power

- - - Correction: A previous version of this article incorrectly said the revised forecast for power needs in Georgia showed power use in the state increasing 17 times. New demand, not total demand, is projected to increase 17 times. The article also misspelled the name of the agency that...

www.yahoo.com

Not sure how this applies to EVs, since the article is explicitly talking about data centers focused on AI and crypto-mining being behind the huge surge in power demand. In fact, EVs, from the little I'm reading, is much smaller than the demand from these data and crypto-mining centers. I guess you are now calling on an AI ban, since we don't have the power for it?

 

[Valletta]

Not sure how this applies to EVs, since the article is explicitly talking about data centers focused on AI and crypto-mining being behind the huge surge in power demand. In fact, EVs, from the little I'm reading, is much smaller than the demand from these data and crypto-mining centers. I guess you are now calling on an AI ban, since we don't have the power for it?

Our power grid can't handle the planned EVs.

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

Our power grid can't handle the planned EVs.

So we can expect more of this?

 

[SimplyMe]

Our power grid can't handle the planned EVs.

Which planned EVs? In what year will it be a danger and, given the nearly decade long lead time before ICE vehicles will no longer be sold (but still lots of them on the road), why can't the grid be built out to handle it. I mean, seriously, if we can't handle EVs a decade from now, how can we handle the sudden and new demand for AI that companies are wanting now?

 

[Pommer]

Our power grid can't handle the planned EVs.

It’s such as shame that we’re unable to build new power-generation facilities, and must rely on the same old systems!

 

[Bradskii]

Our power grid can't handle the planned EVs.

From here: Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily – They Just Need Proper Management

'However, in 2020, the US grid generated 4,007TWh of electricity. Americans drive further on average than Brits – 13,500 miles per year, according to the US Department of Transport’s Federal Highway Administration. That means an American car, if it were an EV, would need 3,857kWh per year, assuming the average efficiency figures above. If all US cars were EVs, they would need a total of 1,106.6TWh, which is 27.6% of what the American grid produced in 2020. US electricity consumption hasn’t shrunk in the same way since 2005 as it has in the UK, but it is clearly not unfeasible for all American cars to be EVs. The US grid could cope too.'

What you should have posted is 'Our power grid can't handle the planned EVs because...'

 

[SimplyMe]

From here: Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily – They Just Need Proper Management

'However, in 2020, the US grid generated 4,007TWh of electricity. Americans drive further on average than Brits – 13,500 miles per year, according to the US Department of Transport’s Federal Highway Administration. That means an American car, if it were an EV, would need 3,857kWh per year, assuming the average efficiency figures above. If all US cars were EVs, they would need a total of 1,106.6TWh, which is 27.6% of what the American grid produced in 2020. US electricity consumption hasn’t shrunk in the same way since 2005 as it has in the UK, but it is clearly not unfeasible for all American cars to be EVs. The US grid could cope too.'

What you should have posted is 'Our power grid can't handle the planned EVs because...'

Are you suggesting that a person should put actual thought into a post, rather than just finding a headline that fits their narrative (even if the article has nothing to do with it)? Not sure how some people would find things to post if we expect that kind of work.

 

[Valletta]

From here: Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily – They Just Need Proper Management

'However, in 2020, the US grid generated 4,007TWh of electricity. Americans drive further on average than Brits – 13,500 miles per year, according to the US Department of Transport’s Federal Highway Administration. That means an American car, if it were an EV, would need 3,857kWh per year, assuming the average efficiency figures above. If all US cars were EVs, they would need a total of 1,106.6TWh, which is 27.6% of what the American grid produced in 2020. US electricity consumption hasn’t shrunk in the same way since 2005 as it has in the UK, but it is clearly not unfeasible for all American cars to be EVs. The US grid could cope too.'

What you should have posted is 'Our power grid can't handle the planned EVs because...'

Fair point. "A lack of thorough planning to prevent power grid outages" is the main concern. There are local outages caused by peak usages and weather, and then there are cascading outages, which are often complex in nature and caused by peak usages and a number of factors, the "perfect storm" scenarios. The United States currently has such problems and EVs will further strain the system. No one knows where the charging station concentrations will be at this time. It is likely the colder areas will be hit the hardest, more electricity will be needed, they put out estimated miles for a vehicle on a full charge, that can go up dramatically when all of the accessories such as heat are on. If it gets cold enough cars don't start, you quickly run down the battery trying and it has to be recharged. Where you have densely populated cities, such as Chicago, the electrical demand for a small area might go up dramatically. I don't have confidence that Joe, or even Kamala, have properly evaluated power grid outages that will be cause by the greater number of EVs mandated. Our infrastructure, power grids, bridges, etc. are often ignored by politicians, and a lot people, until there is a disaster. Trump has said he won't mandate numbers, that people will be free to choose EVs or gas powered vehicles. If he is elected that would prevent a sudden strain of the power grid.

 

[Bradskii]

Fair point. "A lack of thorough planning to prevent power grid outages" is the main concern. There are local outages caused by peak usages and weather, and then there are cascading outages, which are often complex in nature and caused by peak usages and a number of factors, the "perfect storm" scenarios. The United States currently has such problems and EVs will further strain the system. No one knows where the charging station concentrations will be at this time. It is likely the colder areas will be hit the hardest, more electricity will be needed, they put out estimated miles for a vehicle on a full charge, that can go up dramatically when all of the accessories such as heat are on. If it gets cold enough cars don't start, you quickly run down the battery trying and it has to be recharged. Where you have densely populated cities, such as Chicago, the electrical demand for a small area might go up dramatically.

A little light on details I see.

From here: ‘Latest battleground': How politics seized the electric grid

'The pending FERC proposal being shepherded by FERC Chair Willie Phillips would require grid planners to consider a broader set of potential benefits from transmission, including grid reliability, protection against extreme weather events and greater access to energy resources. It would also increase the involvement of states in the process for divvying up transmission costs.'

Sounds a lot like what you are suggesting should happen. But...

'McNamee, the former FERC commissioner, wrote the energy policy chapter of the 900-page Heritage Foundation playbook for a future Republican administration. It’s known as Project 2025.

The playbook describes how a Republican president — Trump is ahead in most GOP presidential primary polls — could dismantle transmission funding and planning initiatives. Under the plan, Department of Energy offices that focus on enabling grid expansions to help bring on more renewables would close.'

I don't have confidence that Joe, or even Kamala, have properly evaluated power grid outages that will be cause by the greater number of EVs mandated. Our infrastructure, power grids, bridges, etc. are often ignored by politicians, and a lot people, until there is a disaster.

Seems you have forgotten about the Bipartisan Infrastructure Deal already. Fact Sheet: The Bipartisan Infrastructure Deal | The White House

Which included...

'Upgrade our power infrastructure to deliver clean, reliable energy across the country and deploy cutting-edge energy technology to achieve a zero-emissions future. According to the Department of Energy, power outages cost the U.S. economy up to $70 billion annually. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Deal’s more than $65 billion investment includes the largest investment in clean energy transmission and grid in American history. It will upgrade our power infrastructure, by building thousands of miles of new, resilient transmission lines to facilitate the expansion of renewables and clean energy, while lowering costs. And it will fund new programs to support the development, demonstration, and deployment of cutting-edge clean energy technologies to accelerate our transition to a zero-emission economy.'

 

[Desk trauma]

It’s such as shame that we’re unable to build new power-generation facilities, and must rely on the same old systems!

As someone in industrial construction I'm looking forward to the increase in power plant construction.