8 states are planning to BAN the sale of gas-powered cars entirely - after Biden unveiled ambitious plans to phase them out by 2032

[AlexB23]

Liquified coal seems to be a thing.
We got so much coal that it's not even charging for anymore

Liquified coal is a thing (has been since the first half of the 20th century, as it was invented in Germany before WWII), but is not good, for several reasons.

Electrofuels, also known as renewable fuels produced through electricity and hydrogen or carbon dioxide from renewable sources, offer several environmental advantages compared to coal-to-liquids (CTL) fuels. Here's a breakdown of the reasons:

1. Renewable energy source: Electrofuels are produced using renewable energy sources like wind, solar, hydro, and geothermal power. This means that the entire production process of electrofuels is carbon-neutral or even carbon negative if the renewable energy source is more than enough to cover the electricity demand for fuel production. On the other hand, coal-to-liquids processes rely on fossil fuels as their primary energy source, which releases significant amounts of greenhouse gases and other pollutants during the production process.

2. Reduced water usage: Coal-to-liquids processes require vast amounts of water for their operation, as coal is first converted into synthetic gas through a complex process called gasification. In contrast, electrofuels production uses water only in the hydrogen production stage and can be produced using water from renewable sources like rain or recycled wastewater.

3. Lower emissions: Electrofuels production emits significantly fewer greenhouse gases and other pollutants compared to coal-to-liquids processes. For instance, the production of one gallon of gasoline from CTL emits approximately 31.5 kg CO2e. Moreover, electrofuels production doesn't release other harmful pollutants like mercury, sulfur dioxide, and nitrogen oxides that are common in coal-to-liquids processes.

4. Improved energy efficiency: Electrofuels production is more energy-efficient than CTL processes because it doesn't involve the conversion of coal into synthetic gas and subsequent Fischer-Tropsch synthesis. Instead, electricity is used to produce hydrogen through a process called electrolysis, which converts water into hydrogen and oxygen using an electrical current. Renewable energy sources like such as wind and solar can be used to generate the electricity for electrofuels production, making it a more sustainable and efficient alternative to CTL.

5. Reduced dependence on fossil fuels: By producing electrofuels using renewable energy sources, we can reduce our dependence on non-renewable fossil fuels like coal and oil for transportation fuel production. This not only helps in reducing greenhouse gas emissions but also enhances energy security by diversifying our energy sources and fostering a more sustainable energy future.

Here is a PDF about electrofuels: https://royalsociety.org/-/media/policy/projects/synthetic-fuels/synthetic-fuels-briefing.pdf

 

[Landon Caeli]

I want to be able to charge a car from empty to full in 60 seconds. I don't have time to wait.

Until that technology becomes reality, we can't do this.

 

[weekEd]

Liquified coal is a thing (has been since the first half of the 20th century, as it was invented in Germany before WWII), but is not good, for several reasons.

Electrofuels, also known as renewable fuels produced through electricity and hydrogen or carbon dioxide from renewable sources, offer several environmental advantages compared to coal-to-liquids (CTL) fuels. Here's a breakdown of the reasons:

1. Renewable energy source: Electrofuels are produced using renewable energy sources like wind, solar, hydro, and geothermal power. This means that the entire production process of electrofuels is carbon-neutral or even carbon negative if the renewable energy source is more than enough to cover the electricity demand for fuel production. On the other hand, coal-to-liquids processes rely on fossil fuels as their primary energy source, which releases significant amounts of greenhouse gases and other pollutants during the production process.

2. Reduced water usage: Coal-to-liquids processes require vast amounts of water for their operation, as coal is first converted into synthetic gas through a complex process called gasification. In contrast, electrofuels production uses water only in the hydrogen production stage and can be produced using water from renewable sources like rain or recycled wastewater.

3. Lower emissions: Electrofuels production emits significantly fewer greenhouse gases and other pollutants compared to coal-to-liquids processes. For instance, the production of one gallon of gasoline from CTL emits approximately 31.5 kg CO2e. Moreover, electrofuels production doesn't release other harmful pollutants like mercury, sulfur dioxide, and nitrogen oxides that are common in coal-to-liquids processes.

4. Improved energy efficiency: Electrofuels production is more energy-efficient than CTL processes because it doesn't involve the conversion of coal into synthetic gas and subsequent Fischer-Tropsch synthesis. Instead, electricity is used to produce hydrogen through a process called electrolysis, which converts water into hydrogen and oxygen using an electrical current. Renewable energy sources like such as wind and solar can be used to generate the electricity for electrofuels production, making it a more sustainable and efficient alternative to CTL.

5. Reduced dependence on fossil fuels: By producing electrofuels using renewable energy sources, we can reduce our dependence on non-renewable fossil fuels like coal and oil for transportation fuel production. This not only helps in reducing greenhouse gas emissions but also enhances energy security by diversifying our energy sources and fostering a more sustainable energy future.

Here is a PDF about electrofuels: https://royalsociety.org/-/media/policy/projects/synthetic-fuels/synthetic-fuels-briefing.pdf

Thank you.
I've live next to an air separation unit, not all close...Not sure how it works but there haven't been any explosions.

 

[AlexB23]

Thank you.
I've live next to an air separation unit, not all close...Not sure how it works but there haven't been any explosions.

You are welcome. Air separation units are hard to explain, but I'll try my best.

Alright, here we go:

An Air Separation Unit (ASU) is an industrial plant used to separate atmospheric air into its fundamental components: nitrogen, oxygen, and smaller quantities of other gases such as argon, carbon dioxide, and moisture. The primary application for this separation is the production of industrial gases for various industries. Here's a simplified explanation of how an Air Separation Unit works:

1. Compression: The process begins with the intake of ambient air through a large fan or compressor. The air is then compressed to increase its pressure and temperature, making it easier to separate the components later on.

2. Cooling: After compression, the air is cooled down using a heat exchanger. The cooling process condenses any moisture present in the air into liquid form, which is then removed through a distillation column.

3. Separation: The cooled and dried air is fed into a pressure swing adsorption (PSA) or membrane separator, where the components are separated based on their molecular size and attraction for specific materials. In a PSA system, the air is passed through beds of adsorbent materials that selectively absorb nitrogen or oxygen as the pressures in the respective beds are changed. In a membrane separator, the air is passed through semipermeable membranes that allow certain gases to pass while blocking others based on their molecular size.

4. Final purification: The separated gases undergo additional purification processes, such as pressure swing adsorption or refrigeration, to remove any remaining impurities and ensure the final product meets the desired specifications.

5. Product storage and distribution: The purified gases are then stored in high-pressure cylinders or vessels, ready for use or further processing. They can be transported to various industries and applications through pipelines or delivery trucks.

Overall, an Air Separation Unit plays a crucial role in the production of industrial gases, enabling various industries to access high-purity nitrogen and oxygen for their operations.

Source is here: Air Separation Unit (ASU): working principle and applications

 

[Belk]

I want to be able to charge a car from empty to full in 60 seconds. I don't have time to wait.

Until that technology becomes reality, we can't do this.

Isn't that a hybrid?

 

[weekEd]

I want to be able to charge a car from empty to full in 60 seconds. I don't have time to wait.

Until that technology becomes reality, we can't do this.

Ok. Swap batteries at a electric vehicle station.
Pull your vehicle into a stall and the battery gets swapped.

The Chevy volt has room for a second battery under the chassis.

Nissan motor dealerships are almost setup to do this.

 

[Valletta]

Good job ignoring what I stated -- particularly about the part of how we are working to completely remove Chinese products in US batteries. Additionally I mentioned how many US EVs are switching to LFP batteries, or other types, which have no Cobalt. Agreements have been signed by automakers to buy these minerals from US and Canadian mines and refiners, some of which are building because there is now demand. And, of course, this could change quickly if solid state batteries become the norm in the next few years, as some are claiming.



Let's clarify, the majority is from natural gas, not from oil or coal; over twice as much from natural gas as from coal -- though together they do make up about 55%. While I have seen some liquid natural gas cars, there definitely aren't too many on the road and they wouldn't be a horrible alternative, other than it isn't really viable.



Except batteries don't "lose charge" in the cold. Instead, the battery works less efficiently while cold, meaning you can't get as much power out. Of course, this can be largely "fixed" by warming up the battery -- particularly while still connected to power while at home -- at which point the battery has a similar charge to a warm day. But again, the same issues largely apply to ICE vehicles, just with a larger amount of "stored" power, people don't worry about the losses as much when it is cold.

And, again, the efficiency of EVs -- to include power transportation and losses while charging -- is about 90%. As for Natural Gas and similar fossil fuel plants, their efficiency is more like 60% -- more efficient (by about 50%) than gasoline car engines.



Yes, you've claimed that but presented no evidence it is true, other than a simple claim that EVs are heavier. And it totally ignores the fact that a single 18 wheeler causes more damage to roads than 9,600 cars. At best, maybe you could claim that EVs are 25% heavier than an equivalent gas car (which we'd need to look at to see how true it is) and so an 18-wheeler might only be equivalent to 7,200 EVs. This is one of those points that I'm sure sounded good, on whatever anti-EV website you got it from, but just isn't as large an issue as what is claimed by them. Again, the largest factors with tire wear have to do with how you drive and if tires are properly maintained.



Again, the most efficient gas cars we produce are still terribly inefficient. I think the absolute best is the Prius, and they claim their engine is 45% efficient (aided by the fact it has a battery and electric powertrain), making it heavier and more complex. Personally, I really like the idea of hydrogen but it doesn't seem realistic. There are huge issues just storing and refilling hydrogen vehicles -- the tanks are under extreme high pressure and have to be dispensed between 200 and 500 bar, and kept at -40 degrees (either C or F).

Then you have the issue of isolating the hydrogen, which tends to take more power to isolate than the hydrogen that is captured will produce -- not to mention the additional power costs of putting it at such high pressure and low temperatures. As such, current prices at gas stations tend to be between $78 and $90 to fill a hydrogen car, and the car can travel roughly 300 miles on that tank of hydrogen. While it would be great to have hydrogen cars, as it could solve various issues with EVs, the technology is not there, with no real breakthroughs in sight. The Japanese car companies invested heavily in hydrogen power but it isn't something that has caught on outside of Japan, if no other reason than the cost to fill the vehicles. And this is ignoring the risks of carrying large amounts of compressed hydrogen in cars, where there are frequently accidents.

I have no issue with an alternative to EVs popping up, and there is research going on with alternative solutions, such as hydrogen, just nothing that currently appears to be a better alternative.

Heavier cars need larger tires, more of the hazardous tire material goes into the environment, and there is more wear and tear on the roads with more weight. My whole point here is that it is not a slam dunk by any means. Such drastic government interference in the private markets, ESPECIALLY with such an unclear positive effect, is reckless and foolhardy. I could make a case for hydrogen vehicles, just like you by claiming "we" (whoever that may be) are working on future improvements, that doesn't mean that a plan to make hydrogen vehicles half of all vehicles in ten years is wise. Without a successful pilot program this is a recipe for disaster. There can be unforeseen consequences, maybe more deaths in vehicle accidents with heavier cars. And most of all that is not the kind of decision that should be left up to a president and some un-elected advisors. It's the same as if Joe ordered that programs be put in place to have half of the families in the country go meatless in ten years. That's not what a president is supposed to be doing. A president is supposed to protect the rights of citizens, not impinge upon them.

 

[iluvatar5150]

well, maybe that pizza guru can be president.
the no no no guy.

Herman Cain has been dead for almost four years.

lol, beat me to it

 

[weekEd]

Heavier cars need larger tires, more of the hazardous tire material goes into the environment, and there is more wear and tear on the roads with more weight. My whole point here is that it is not a slam dunk by any means. Such drastic government interference in the private markets, ESPECIALLY with such an unclear positive effect, is reckless and foolhardy. I could make a case for hydrogen vehicles, just like you by claiming "we" (whoever that may be) are working on future improvements, that doesn't mean that a plan to make hydrogen vehicles half of all vehicles in ten years is wise. Without a successful pilot program this is a recipe for disaster. There can be unforeseen consequences, maybe more deaths in vehicle accidents with heavier cars. And most of all that is not the kind of decision that should be left up to a president and some un-elected advisors. It's the same as if Joe ordered that programs be put in place to have half of the families in the country go meatless in ten years. That's not what a president is supposed to be doing. A president is supposed to protect the rights of citizens, not impinge upon them.

What kind of disassociation is this?
Rights are touted as God given that "the state"is an evil actor.
Pilot program? Like what the manufacture of vehicles whose primary means of drive isn't fossil dependent?
And then somehow because a person is elected they are supposed to change the "evil state"...
Unforeseen consequences is letting folks rot waiting for a bus in a system where their destination is public assistance office.
The corruption is there the president is just as human and fallible as the next guy and being around a while doesn't make them less fallible or "corrupt".
Sorry that folks will be using public infrastructure "the roads won't be new"

 

[weekEd]

You are welcome. Air separation units are hard to explain, but I'll try my best.

Alright, here we go:

An Air Separation Unit (ASU) is an industrial plant used to separate atmospheric air into its fundamental components: nitrogen, oxygen, and smaller quantities of other gases such as argon, carbon dioxide, and moisture. The primary application for this separation is the production of industrial gases for various industries. Here's a simplified explanation of how an Air Separation Unit works:

1. Compression: The process begins with the intake of ambient air through a large fan or compressor. The air is then compressed to increase its pressure and temperature, making it easier to separate the components later on.

2. Cooling: After compression, the air is cooled down using a heat exchanger. The cooling process condenses any moisture present in the air into liquid form, which is then removed through a distillation column.

3. Separation: The cooled and dried air is fed into a pressure swing adsorption (PSA) or membrane separator, where the components are separated based on their molecular size and attraction for specific materials. In a PSA system, the air is passed through beds of adsorbent materials that selectively absorb nitrogen or oxygen as the pressures in the respective beds are changed. In a membrane separator, the air is passed through semipermeable membranes that allow certain gases to pass while blocking others based on their molecular size.

4. Final purification: The separated gases undergo additional purification processes, such as pressure swing adsorption or refrigeration, to remove any remaining impurities and ensure the final product meets the desired specifications.

5. Product storage and distribution: The purified gases are then stored in high-pressure cylinders or vessels, ready for use or further processing. They can be transported to various industries and applications through pipelines or delivery trucks.

Overall, an Air Separation Unit plays a crucial role in the production of industrial gases, enabling various industries to access high-purity nitrogen and oxygen for their operations.

Source is here: Air Separation Unit (ASU): working principle and applications

Yeah the machine is about 20m tall about 75m long

 

[AlexB23]

Yeah the machine is about 20m tall about 75m long

Woo, that is massive. Hopefully the machine pays for itself after a few years of usage.

 

[DaisyDay]

Herman Cain has been dead for almost four years.

No one's perfect. I think I would take him as he is over the return of 45.

 

[Valletta]

What kind of disassociation is this?
Rights are touted as God given that "the state"is an evil actor.
Pilot program? Like what the manufacture of vehicles whose primary means of drive isn't fossil dependent?
And then somehow because a person is elected they are supposed to change the "evil state"...
Unforeseen consequences is letting folks rot waiting for a bus in a system where their destination is public assistance office.
The corruption is there the president is just as human and fallible as the next guy and being around a while doesn't make them less fallible or "corrupt".
Sorry that folks will be using public infrastructure "the roads won't be new"

Our nation's founding document acknowledges that our rights come from God. And the Constitution was drawn up with the idea from the people of the states to limit the powers of the federal government. Federal government power is out of control.

 

[weekEd]

Our nation's founding document acknowledges that our rights come from God. And the Constitution was drawn up with the idea from the people of the states to limit the powers of the federal government. Federal government power is out of control.

ah don't be bashful... state rights... are they god given??

 

[Valletta]

ah don't be bashful... state rights... are they god given??

People are given rights from God, not the states. The Declaration says it very well:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

 

[Hans Blaster]

I want to be able to charge a car from empty to full in 60 seconds. I don't have time to wait.

Until that technology becomes reality, we can't do this.

Go for swappable batteries. I saw a video a few years back of a mini-bike rider changing out their battery in about one minute in Singapore or some similar place.

 

[weekEd]

People are given rights from God, not the states. The Declaration says it very well:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

could have just said "I can't, and then the people who are in power are bestowed with god given rights to disband the governement in the intrest of the sovriegnty of myself and those others I deem worthy"
of course it kinda of complicates things when policy is made by these God given that people vote for and it would put 7/11 and the roads under such stress that it is IMPOSSIBLE or DANGEROUS...

 

[Bradskii]

I want to be able to charge a car from empty to full in 60 seconds. I don't have time to wait.

What's the rush? Plug it in overnight. If you have solar panels, then...It's effectively free.

Until that technology becomes reality, we can't do this.

Until that becomes a reality, if you're really in a rush then you can stick with an ICE car. Or buy a hybrid.

 

[SimplyMe]

Ok. Swap batteries at a electric vehicle station.
Pull your vehicle into a stall and the battery gets swapped.

The Chevy volt has room for a second battery under the chassis.

Nissan motor dealerships are almost setup to do this.

Sounds like you want a Neo, though Valleta will complain since it is a Chinese car:

 

[weekEd]

Sounds like you want a Neo, though Valleta will complain since it is a Chinese car:

nah I am into motorcycles and domiciles...