8 states are planning to BAN the sale of gas-powered cars entirely - after Biden unveiled ambitious plans to phase them out by 2032

Valletta

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Rhode Island was the most recent state to join the list of states pledging to ban the sale of gas-powered cars, joining Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon and Washington.
According to the site, the District of Columbia has also made the commitment.

What you don't see are the plans for updating our nation's power grid. Of course there is no way our current power grid can handle the massive switch-over to EVs. That is, unless driving is slashed through government rationing of electricity.
 
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Rhode Island was the most recent state to join the list of states pledging to ban the sale of gas-powered cars, joining Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon and Washington.
According to the site, the District of Columbia has also made the commitment.

What you don't see are the plans for updating our nation's power grid. Of course there is no way our current power grid can handle the massive switch-over to EVs. That is, unless driving is slashed through government rationing of electricity.
My view is that 2032 is way too early. We should allow the infrastructure time to adjust. In my opinion, 2045 or 2050 would be a better year, as that gives us 21 years to make changes happen. 2032 is only 8 years away, and as we know, nothing can get done in under a decade.

Delaying the ban on gasoline cars from the early 2030s to the year 2045-2050 has plenty of benefits, listed below:

1. Technological maturity: The automotive industry is constantly evolving, and the transition to electric vehicles (EVs) requires significant investment in infrastructure, research, and development. While EV technology has made great strides in recent years, there are still challenges to overcome, such as increasing battery range and reducing charging times. Delaying the ban until 2045 would give automakers more time to improve EV technology and make it more affordable and accessible to consumers.

2. Hybrids: Hybrid vehicles, which use a combination of an internal combustion engine and an electric motor, can serve as a bridge between traditional gasoline cars and fully electric vehicles. They offer better fuel efficiency and lower emissions than conventional cars but still have the convenience of a gasoline engine for longer trips or in areas where charging infrastructure is limited. Delaying the ban would allow more time for hybrid vehicles to gain market share and reduce the overall carbon footprint of the transportation sector.

3. Electrical grid: The electrical grid is a critical infrastructure that powers our homes, businesses, and electric vehicles. However, the grid is not yet fully prepared to handle the massive influx of EVs that would result from an early ban on gasoline cars. Expanding and upgrading the electrical grid to support millions of new EV chargers requires significant investment and planning. Delaying the ban until 2045-2050 would give utilities and regulators more time to prepare for the shift to electric transportation and ensure that the grid can handle the increased demand.

4. Economic considerations: An early ban on gasoline cars could have significant economic consequences for consumers, particularly those with lower incomes or who live in rural areas where charging infrastructure is limited. Delaying the ban until 2045 or so would give more time for EV technology to become more affordable and accessible, allowing a smoother transition for consumers.

Delaying the ban on gasoline cars until 2045 or 2050 would give more time for EV technology to mature, allow hybrids to play a larger role in the transition, provide more time to upgrade the electrical grid, and minimize economic disruption for consumers.


*Even more stuff:

Delaying the ban on gasoline cars until 2045 may sadly not directly address the issue of African slave labor in mineral mining for EV batteries, as this is a complex and multifaceted problem that requires international cooperation and political will to address. The production of minerals used in EV batteries, such as lithium, cobalt, and nickel, has been linked to human rights abuses and labor exploitation in some parts of the world.

However, delaying the ban could indirectly contribute to reducing the demand for batteries, giving more time for the industry to find alternative solutions or improve supply chain transparency and ethical sourcing. :) For instance, research into new battery technologies, such as solid-state batteries, could potentially reduce the demand for certain minerals or make mining less intensive.

Solid-state batteries are a promising technology that could offer several advantages over current lithium-ion batteries, such as higher energy density, longer range, faster charging times, and improved safety. However, this technology is still in its infancy, with significant research and development required before it can be commercially viable. According to some estimates, solid-state batteries may not be ready for mass production until the late 2020s or even the 2030s. By delaying the ban on gasoline cars until 2045, there would be more time for this technology to mature and potentially replace lithium-ion batteries in EVs.

It's important to note that while solid-state batteries have the potential to address some of the challenges associated with current battery technology, they are not a silver bullet solution. Other factors, such as improving recycling and reducing the overall demand for batteries through increased energy efficiency and public transportation use, will also play a role in addressing the environmental and ethical concerns associated with battery production.

TDLR: Invest our taxes in buses and trains.
 
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Bradskii

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What you don't see are the plans for updating our nation's power grid.

'As part of the bipartisan infrastructure law in 2021, Congress approved more than $20 billion to upgrade America’s power grids.'

Really pleased to see it's bipartisan. Is it enough? No, more will need to be spent. So let's hope that whoever is sitting behind the Resolute Desk for the next 2 terms won't drag the chain.

The US used to astound us all with it's can-do attitude. Let's hope your get up and go hasn't got up and gone.
 
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FireDragon76

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My view is that 2032 is way too early. We should allow the infrastructure time to adjust. In my opinion, 2045 or 2050 would be a better year, as that gives us 21 years to make changes happen. 2032 is only 8 years away, and as we know, nothing can get done in under a decade.

Delaying the ban on gasoline cars from the early 2030s to the year 2045-2050 has plenty of benefits, listed below:

1. Technological maturity: The automotive industry is constantly evolving, and the transition to electric vehicles (EVs) requires significant investment in infrastructure, research, and development. While EV technology has made great strides in recent years, there are still challenges to overcome, such as increasing battery range and reducing charging times. Delaying the ban until 2045 would give automakers more time to improve EV technology and make it more affordable and accessible to consumers.

2. Hybrids: Hybrid vehicles, which use a combination of an internal combustion engine and an electric motor, can serve as a bridge between traditional gasoline cars and fully electric vehicles. They offer better fuel efficiency and lower emissions than conventional cars but still have the convenience of a gasoline engine for longer trips or in areas where charging infrastructure is limited. Delaying the ban would allow more time for hybrid vehicles to gain market share and reduce the overall carbon footprint of the transportation sector.

3. Electrical grid: The electrical grid is a critical infrastructure that powers our homes, businesses, and electric vehicles. However, the grid is not yet fully prepared to handle the massive influx of EVs that would result from an early ban on gasoline cars. Expanding and upgrading the electrical grid to support millions of new EV chargers requires significant investment and planning. Delaying the ban until 2045-2050 would give utilities and regulators more time to prepare for the shift to electric transportation and ensure that the grid can handle the increased demand.

4. Economic considerations: An early ban on gasoline cars could have significant economic consequences for consumers, particularly those with lower incomes or who live in rural areas where charging infrastructure is limited. Delaying the ban until 2045 or so would give more time for EV technology to become more affordable and accessible, allowing a smoother transition for consumers.

Delaying the ban on gasoline cars until 2045 or 2050 would give more time for EV technology to mature, allow hybrids to play a larger role in the transition, provide more time to upgrade the electrical grid, and minimize economic disruption for consumers.


*Even more stuff:

Delaying the ban on gasoline cars until 2045 may sadly not directly address the issue of African slave labor in mineral mining for EV batteries, as this is a complex and multifaceted problem that requires international cooperation and political will to address. The production of minerals used in EV batteries, such as lithium, cobalt, and nickel, has been linked to human rights abuses and labor exploitation in some parts of the world.

However, delaying the ban could indirectly contribute to reducing the demand for batteries, giving more time for the industry to find alternative solutions or improve supply chain transparency and ethical sourcing. :) For instance, research into new battery technologies, such as solid-state batteries, could potentially reduce the demand for certain minerals or make mining less intensive.

Solid-state batteries are a promising technology that could offer several advantages over current lithium-ion batteries, such as higher energy density, longer range, faster charging times, and improved safety. However, this technology is still in its infancy, with significant research and development required before it can be commercially viable. According to some estimates, solid-state batteries may not be ready for mass production until the late 2020s or even the 2030s. By delaying the ban on gasoline cars until 2045, there would be more time for this technology to mature and potentially replace lithium-ion batteries in EVs.

It's important to note that while solid-state batteries have the potential to address some of the challenges associated with current battery technology, they are not a silver bullet solution. Other factors, such as improving recycling and reducing the overall demand for batteries through increased energy efficiency and public transportation use, will also play a role in addressing the environmental and ethical concerns associated with battery production.

TDLR: Invest our taxes in buses and trains.

I disagree. Punting the date ahead a few decades is what politicians and monied business interests have done for years to evade responsibility. The world simply doesn't have time to delay doing something about one of the major sources of greenhouse gasses.

Also, ten years is a realistic time frame. Keep in mind there are alternatives to owning an automobile altogether. Ten years is time for businesses and individuals to adjust. Besides electric cars, there are public transportation projects, bicycles (including electric bicycles), and increased walking that could be done. All those would be beneficial and reduce externalities like traffic deaths as a bonus. Continuing to promote a car-centric lifestyle in general is unjust and harms the most vulnerable people in society, children, the disabled, and the elderly, who are disproportionately pedestrians.
 
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Hans Blaster

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I disagree. Punting the date ahead a few decades is what politicians and monied business interests have done for years to evade responsibility. The world simply doesn't have time to delay doing something about one of the major sources of greenhouse gasses.

Also, ten years is a realistic time frame. Keep in mind there are alternatives to owning an automobile altogether. Ten years is time for businesses and individuals to adjust. Besides electric cars, there are public transportation projects, bicycles (including electric bicycles), and increased walking that could be done. All those would be beneficial and reduce externalities like traffic deaths as a bonus. Continuing to promote a car-centric lifestyle in general is unjust and harms the most vulnerable people in society, children, the disabled, and the elderly, who are disproportionately pedestrians.

For all of the "what about the infrastructure?" complaints, 8-10 years isn't an unrealistic amount of time to meet the basic needs for a charger based vehicle environment. An all-electric requirement for new cars in 8-10 years time only requires that there be sufficient distributed charging infrastructure in the state for every new car buyer to be able to keep their car charge whether they charge at home or can't including sufficient power delivery. It does not require that to be install in less than 5 years.
 
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Valletta

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'As part of the bipartisan infrastructure law in 2021, Congress approved more than $20 billion to upgrade America’s power grids.'

Really pleased to see it's bipartisan. Is it enough? No, more will need to be spent. So let's hope that whoever is sitting behind the Resolute Desk for the next 2 terms won't drag the chain.

The US used to astound us all with it's can-do attitude. Let's hope your get up and go hasn't got up and gone.
It's not going to be enough to handle Joe's EV push, our country already has had major problems as per this article. 2020 was the worst year yet for power outages in the US
My deep concern is that people get caught up in climate change almost as if it is a religion, with fossil fuels portrayed as inherently evil.
We know to create EV batteries at this time strip mining, vast water resources, and slave type labor are used. We also know that EVs put more particulates into the air. Since they are heavier there is more wear and tear on the roads and tires. When those tires wear out the material doesn't just vanish, it goes into the environment. And on the practical side there are numerous problems, from cold weather to charging. Where are the charging stations going to be in New York City and other crowded cities? In the name of climate change people are rushing into EVs when those EVs may, at the moment, do more harm than good. With lighter batteries and a lot of work on the power grid and charging problems EVs might be the future. But it's crazy to wipe out current industries and make such a switch for the whole country without serious detailed planning and trials. I don't believe Joe has thought these things through.
 
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Desk trauma

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With lighter batteries and a lot of work on the power grid and charging problems EVs might be the future.
Have no fear, when that’s accomplished new talking points about how awful it is will be issued and people will be here arguing them.
 
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SimplyMe

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It's not going to be enough to handle Joe's EV push, our country already has had major problems as per this article. 2020 was the worst year yet for power outages in the US

Except when you look at those outages, almost all are talking about natural disasters that destroy the current infrastructure -- they were not caused by a lack of power generation. Even if you look at the Texas outage in February of 2021 and try to claim that was lack of "power generation," the issue isn't that they didn't have enough power generation capacity, it was caused by lack of winterization that caused the power plants to fail. So this argument has zero to do with EVs or the extra power they might need.

Instead, I'll leave a YouTube video below which addresses the amount of extra power we need for EVs. What he determines is you need about 30% more power in the grid. He also finds that, historically, we've added roughly 4% capacity to our electrical grid every year over the last 60-ish years. At that rate, it would take 6.5 years to improve the grid to generate the extra power needed for EVs. He also uses the example of Air Conditioners (AC), which use an equivalent amount (at least on the days AC is needed) to the amount of power an EV would use -- and how the US managed to build the grid out so that we had the power for the increased adoption of AC. This isn't the overwhelming issue that the anti-EV people thinks it is. And it is even less of an issue when you can use things like lower electric rates at night, which will cause many EV owners to charge at night when power usage tends to be much lower -- flatten the "power curve" if you will -- which means the actual strain on the power grid is far less than what is trying to be claimed.


My deep concern is that people get caught up in climate change almost as if it is a religion, with fossil fuels portrayed as inherently evil.

Which has nothing to do with anything. Yes, there are "zealots" on both sides; kind of like your talking points here are taken from zealots of the "anti-EV" groups. What this means is we should evaluate all claims on their merits, like we do with everything else.

We know to create EV batteries at this time strip mining, vast water resources, and slave type labor are used.

Except that batteries are evolving. Many of those batteries are starting to be replaced by LFP batteries, which have their own issues, but remove some of the rare minerals with iron -- so don't require the same amount of strip mining, water resources, etc.

The other issue is that ignores the issues with drilling for oil and the damage for the environment that it causes (and has caused); to include massive water pollution issues (with billions of dollars spent trying to "fix" that damage) and slave type labor.

We also know that EVs put more particulates into the air.

No, we don't know that -- particularly with the particulates that come out of the exhaust pipes of ICE vehicles. Yes, it has been lowered with the various emission control systems but they do still cause various types of pollution to include particulates.

Since they are heavier there is more wear and tear on the roads and tires.

I feel compelled to point out the top selling gas vehicle in the US is the Ford F-150, which weighs as much as most any EV. Even ignoring that, the fact is that SUVs (which are built on truck chassis, so weigh more) tend to be most of the vehicles sold in the US. Yes, EVs do tend to be a bit heavier but the amount of that difference is overstated. It also ignores the brake wear, with the dust from that wear put into the air -- EVs have almost no "brake dust" since they use the electric motor to stop the car (and put power back into the battery) rather than physical brakes.

When those tires wear out the material doesn't just vanish, it goes into the environment.

Yes, for all vehicles. I'd also note that while weight can effect the amount of wear that by far the biggest factors are still driving style (the faster and more aggressive you drive, the higher the wear) and tires being at the proper pressure.

And on the practical side there are numerous problems, from cold weather to charging.

As I keep pointing out, cold weather is an issue for all vehicles. I would note that other countries, such as Norway (highest EV adoption in the world), that have winters as cold as the US, don't have "issues" running EVs in winter.

Where are the charging stations going to be in New York City and other crowded cities?

Why do you need "charging stations" in "crowded cities?" Though, the easy answer would be to put them where gas stations are currently -- that should free up a fair amount of real estate as gas vehicles become less common. As a general rule, you don't need fast charging stations in major cities. The charging stations are largely only needed when traveling, so you can stick the bulk of them in rural and suburban areas right off of highways.

I'll agree that their is an issue in New York City (and a few others) where people don't have driveways and have to park on the street; as well as those that live in apartment buildings. With apartments, though, it will be much like air conditioning was, where owners had to install air conditioning to be able to have their apartments appeal to most renters; it will soon be the same with some type of EV charging (likely 220v) being required for people to want to rent from various apartment complexes. With New York, I assume they will add some type of 220V charging station to their on street parking stalls; which doesn't require a large amount of room (slightly larger than parking meters) and likely will have some type of payment system where they charge a bit more (for overhead and to buy and maintain the charger) for electricity than what a person would pay in their home -- and again even offering discounts for charging done overnight as opposed to peak electrical demand.

In the name of climate change people are rushing into EVs when those EVs may, at the moment, do more harm than good.

Again, only if you ignore the various environmental costs of ICE vehicles. Even counting the worst of EVs environmental damage, they still end up less harmful than ICE vehicles over the life of the vehicles. As I've pointed out previously, gas vehicles are typically only 30-40% efficient, with most of the "energy" of a gallon of gasoline being lost to heat. They also are equally inefficient in cold weather, but because they have much larger fuel tanks and the inefficiency of the vehicle, you don't notice the loss to cold weather to the same degree.

With lighter batteries and a lot of work on the power grid and charging problems EVs might be the future. But it's crazy to wipe out current industries and make such a switch for the whole country without serious detailed planning and trials.

Yes, over time EVs are going to become even better -- whereas it is questionable if we can make any major improvements to gasoline cars.

I don't believe Joe has thought these things through.

I doubt any President has thought "these things," as in fully understanding all the fine details. Instead, I'm sure all Presidents have had advisors who understand the details of what it will take to improve the power grid, to add EV chargers, etc. and that advise the President on the most important details and the issues. I also know that the US often sets "goals" for improvement -- such as we've done with fuel economy standards. Occasionally they are even created as regulations, that a certain amount of improvement or required adoption of features. I also know that, when technology doesn't match what was required, the implementation of those requirements are pushed back. I'm sure, with many in Congress that not only don't understand the science of climate change but disagree with it politically will push back hard, complete with plenty of legislation, on most of these goals.
 
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Valletta

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Except when you look at those outages, almost all are talking about natural disasters that destroy the current infrastructure -- they were not caused by a lack of power generation. Even if you look at the Texas outage in February of 2021 and try to claim that was lack of "power generation," the issue isn't that they didn't have enough power generation capacity, it was caused by lack of winterization that caused the power plants to fail. So this argument has zero to do with EVs or the extra power they might need.

Instead, I'll leave a YouTube video below which addresses the amount of extra power we need for EVs. What he determines is you need about 30% more power in the grid. He also finds that, historically, we've added roughly 4% capacity to our electrical grid every year over the last 60-ish years. At that rate, it would take 6.5 years to improve the grid to generate the extra power needed for EVs. He also uses the example of Air Conditioners (AC), which use an equivalent amount (at least on the days AC is needed) to the amount of power an EV would use -- and how the US managed to build the grid out so that we had the power for the increased adoption of AC. This isn't the overwhelming issue that the anti-EV people thinks it is. And it is even less of an issue when you can use things like lower electric rates at night, which will cause many EV owners to charge at night when power usage tends to be much lower -- flatten the "power curve" if you will -- which means the actual strain on the power grid is far less than what is trying to be claimed.




Which has nothing to do with anything. Yes, there are "zealots" on both sides; kind of like your talking points here are taken from zealots of the "anti-EV" groups. What this means is we should evaluate all claims on their merits, like we do with everything else.



Except that batteries are evolving. Many of those batteries are starting to be replaced by LFP batteries, which have their own issues, but remove some of the rare minerals with iron -- so don't require the same amount of strip mining, water resources, etc.

The other issue is that ignores the issues with drilling for oil and the damage for the environment that it causes (and has caused); to include massive water pollution issues (with billions of dollars spent trying to "fix" that damage) and slave type labor.



No, we don't know that -- particularly with the particulates that come out of the exhaust pipes of ICE vehicles. Yes, it has been lowered with the various emission control systems but they do still cause various types of pollution to include particulates.



I feel compelled to point out the top selling gas vehicle in the US is the Ford F-150, which weighs as much as most any EV. Even ignoring that, the fact is that SUVs (which are built on truck chassis, so weigh more) tend to be most of the vehicles sold in the US. Yes, EVs do tend to be a bit heavier but the amount of that difference is overstated. It also ignores the brake wear, with the dust from that wear put into the air -- EVs have almost no "brake dust" since they use the electric motor to stop the car (and put power back into the battery) rather than physical brakes.



Yes, for all vehicles. I'd also note that while weight can effect the amount of wear that by far the biggest factors are still driving style (the faster and more aggressive you drive, the higher the wear) and tires being at the proper pressure.



As I keep pointing out, cold weather is an issue for all vehicles. I would note that other countries, such as Norway (highest EV adoption in the world), that have winters as cold as the US, don't have "issues" running EVs in winter.



Why do you need "charging stations" in "crowded cities?" Though, the easy answer would be to put them where gas stations are currently -- that should free up a fair amount of real estate as gas vehicles become less common. As a general rule, you don't need fast charging stations in major cities. The charging stations are largely only needed when traveling, so you can stick the bulk of them in rural and suburban areas right off of highways.

I'll agree that their is an issue in New York City (and a few others) where people don't have driveways and have to park on the street; as well as those that live in apartment buildings. With apartments, though, it will be much like air conditioning was, where owners had to install air conditioning to be able to have their apartments appeal to most renters; it will soon be the same with some type of EV charging (likely 220v) being required for people to want to rent from various apartment complexes. With New York, I assume they will add some type of 220V charging station to their on street parking stalls; which doesn't require a large amount of room (slightly larger than parking meters) and likely will have some type of payment system where they charge a bit more (for overhead and to buy and maintain the charger) for electricity than what a person would pay in their home -- and again even offering discounts for charging done overnight as opposed to peak electrical demand.



Again, only if you ignore the various environmental costs of ICE vehicles. Even counting the worst of EVs environmental damage, they still end up less harmful than ICE vehicles over the life of the vehicles. As I've pointed out previously, gas vehicles are typically only 30-40% efficient, with most of the "energy" of a gallon of gasoline being lost to heat. They also are equally inefficient in cold weather, but because they have much larger fuel tanks and the inefficiency of the vehicle, you don't notice the loss to cold weather to the same degree.



Yes, over time EVs are going to become even better -- whereas it is questionable if we can make any major improvements to gasoline cars.



I doubt any President has thought "these things," as in fully understanding all the fine details. Instead, I'm sure all Presidents have had advisors who understand the details of what it will take to improve the power grid, to add EV chargers, etc. and that advise the President on the most important details and the issues. I also know that the US often sets "goals" for improvement -- such as we've done with fuel economy standards. Occasionally they are even created as regulations, that a certain amount of improvement or required adoption of features. I also know that, when technology doesn't match what was required, the implementation of those requirements are pushed back. I'm sure, with many in Congress that not only don't understand the science of climate change but disagree with it politically will push back hard, complete with plenty of legislation, on most of these goals.
My point is that it is not well thoughtout, that it might do more damage than good. If Joe thought he could make the case he could present it to the American people and the heads of industry and get feedback. A pilot program could be tried in one state. Laws could be passed. Yes Joe has advisors, he also had advisors when he pulled the military out of Afghanistan before the civilians. As to power grids, it's different than straight percentages. A power grid has a maximum capacity to handle peak hours. If you have too many people charging at the same time then that can cause a problem. So too China controls the minerals for the current batteries. And human rights issues are important.
 
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My view is that 2032 is way too early. We should allow the infrastructure time to adjust. In my opinion, 2045 or 2050 would be a better year, as that gives us 21 years to make changes happen. 2032 is only 8 years away, and as we know, nothing can get done in under a decade.

Keep in mind that this would only impact the sale of new cars. Unless there was a provision I missed, it would not be pulling existing ICE vehicles off the road. The average age of vehicles on the road now is 12.5 years. Assuming that trend holds steady and doesn't go even longer, then by 2044, only half the cars on the road would be EV's.
 
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Keep in mind that this would only impact the sale of new cars. Unless there was a provision I missed, it would not be pulling existing ICE vehicles off the road. The average age of vehicles on the road now is 12.5 years. Assuming that trend holds steady and doesn't go even longer, then by 2044, only half the cars on the road would be EV's.
Yeah, this law in the current form only impacts the sale of new cars, so I understand if delaying the end of petrol to 2045 instead of 2032 could be a bad problem, as by 2057-2058 under my hypothetical 2045 ban of ICE vehicles, only half of cars on roads will be EVs. 2057 is a long time from now. A better solution would be implementing free public transport (or run on donations), such as what the government in Luxembourg did in 2020.

Luxembourg buses: Public transport
 
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weekEd

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Rhode Island was the most recent state to join the list of states pledging to ban the sale of gas-powered cars, joining Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon and Washington.
According to the site, the District of Columbia has also made the commitment.

What you don't see are the plans for updating our nation's power grid. Of course there is no way our current power grid can handle the massive switch-over to EVs. That is, unless driving is slashed through government rationing of electricity.
yeah this is a disaster, the strain on the economy required to employ people is just too much...
it'll never get done..
 
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Valletta

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yeah this is a disaster, the strain on the economy required to employ people is just too much...
it'll never get done..
Employ people? Jobs and industries are not magically created. Consider all of the mom and pop convenience stores that will be put of business. China controls the lithium and cobalt supplies, and China may sell those to American firms for exorbitant prices, or maybe they will put the batteries together in China. There will be a one-time effort in putting in charging stations, and in cold climates when they freeze up they will need maintenance.
 
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Consider all of the mom and pop convenience stores that will be put of business
Won’t someone think of the convenience stores is my new favorite argument against EVs.
There will be a one-time effort in putting in charging stations, and in cold climates when they freeze up they will need maintenance.
Unlike the infrastructure supporting gasoline which is maintenance free once in place.
 
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Pommer

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Employ people? Jobs and industries are not magically created. Consider all of the mom and pop convenience stores that will be put of business. China controls the lithium and cobalt supplies, and China may sell those to American firms for exorbitant prices, or maybe they will put the batteries together in China. There will be a one-time effort in putting in charging stations, and in cold climates when they freeze up they will need maintenance.
“We choose to go to the Moon in this decade…not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too.”

If the USA doesn’t lead in the EV market we will fall behind and the fate of our nation will surely be in our adversaries’ hands.
 
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Valletta

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Won’t someone think of the convenience stores is my new favorite argument against EVs.

Unlike the infrastructure supporting gasoline which is maintenance free once in place.
It's foolhardy to get ahead with such a plan without an understanding of the negative outcomes.
 
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Valletta

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“We choose to go to the Moon in this decade…not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too.”

If the USA doesn’t lead in the EV market we will fall behind and the fate of our nation will surely be in our adversaries’ hands.
EVs may not be the wave of the future.
 
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Pommer

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Won’t someone think of the convenience stores is my new favorite argument against EVs.
Verily, think of the poor soon-to-be-unemployed gasoline-station-tank installers!
They’ll go the way of the street-sweepers (who dealt with the “effluence“ of America’s equine population).
 
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