1050 New Testament Commands vs 613 Old Testament Commands, which do we follow?

613 OT Commands vs 1050 NT Commands, which do we follow?

  • 613 OT Commands

  • 1050 NT Commands


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from scratch

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The obvious solution to the supposed riddle is that;

1. both the weekly and the monthly cylce are listed in Is 66. You only get meaning from both 'cycles' if you preserve the cycle - otherwise you make jibberish of the text.

2. NO TEXT in all of scripture uses "from Sabbath to Sabbath AND from New Moon to New Moon" to mean "every day" or "daily".

There are many OT texts that DO mention "daily" and NONE of them do what from-scratch appears to suggest.

So having no text as a reference - I think he simply prefers an any-ol-exvuse-will-do solution. And of course he is free to resort to that if he wishes.

in Christ,

Bob
You solved no riddle. You still maintain from... to means on. Problem is I can't find any dictionary to back you up. BTW that is how the week was measured.

A 22d Century rendering would legitimately read during the week all mankind will worship Me.
 
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1. The SDA denomination is larger than Southern Baptist AND Seventh-day Baptist groups - COMBINED. (Oh no wait - they are cults too in your view??)

2. There are NO "weekday1 after weekday 1" worship services in the entire NT -- not one!

3. Not ONCE do NT Authors ever command the NT saints to keep week-day-1 holy.

4. there are MANY Sabbath after Sabbath worship services attended by NT Christian saints. Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- and the Apostolic church of Acts 15 actually "relied on this fact" to resolve their church dispute (see Acts 15).

5. In the New Heavens and new earth long AFTER the cross "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Is 66:23

What is more - even the following Sunday sources themselves argue for the continued binding authority of the Sabbath Commandment for all Christians to this very day. (So then just stating the obvious here).





You need to get out more.

Look the denominations up in places like "Adherents" -- get outside of your local community on this one because the World is a big place - as it turns out and "God so loved the WORLD that He gave..." not just from-scratch's 'local community".

I think we both knew that.

in Christ,

Bob
Really? I count 146 Southern Baptist Churches in my area. Several by themselves will exceed the total attendance of the 9 SDA Churches. That is more than16 times as many churches. The joke is over dude.
 
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Hentenza

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4. there are MANY Sabbath after Sabbath worship services attended by NT Christian saints. Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- and the Apostolic church of Acts 15 actually "relied on this fact" to resolve their church dispute (see Acts 15).

Acts 13
5 When they reached Salamis, they began to proclaim the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews; and they also had John as their helper.


14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets the synagogue officials sent to them...


42 As [w]Paul and Barnabas were going out, the people kept begging that these [x]things might be spoken to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up...


44 The next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of [z]the Lord.


Sorry Bob but these people that Paul and Barnabas preached to in the synagogue were Jews not Christians. These were NOT Christian sabbath to sabbath services.

Acts 17
17 Now when they had traveled through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 And according to Paul’s custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 [a]explaining and [b]giving evidence that the [c]Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying

10 The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, [j]and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.

17 So he was reasoning in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Gentiles, and in the market place every day with those who happened to be present.

Sorry Bob but these people that Paul and Barnabas preached to in the synagogue were Jews not Christians and there was a hall in the synagogue for the gentiles. These were NOT Christian sabbath to sabbath services.

Acts 18
4 And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

Sorry Bob but these people that Paul and Barnabas preached to in the synagogue were Jews not Christians and there was a hall in the synagogue for the gentiles. These were NOT Christian sabbath to sabbath services.

The apostolic church in Acts 15 did not rely on any sabbath to sabbath CHRISTIAN services to decide that the gentiles did not have to follow the law in any way shape or form in order to remain or become Christians.
 
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alex2165

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At that time that Bob mentioned and you made your comments to, were has been no such thing as Jews and Christians, because very first Christians predominately were Jews.

Jesus Christ is a Jew, He came first to His people Jews, He made Apostles out of 12 Jews, and He preached in Israel traveling from one place to another and teaching people the Gospel, majority of whom Jews.

So very first Christians were Jews. But when Gospel of Christ was spread among Jews and Gentiles far enough by the first Jews-Christians, when the Gentiles also became part takers in the mission of spreading the Gospel.

Because Gospel of Christ came from Jews, certain Jewish rituals have been preserved, one of which the observation of the Sabbath, on such Day Jews and Gentile Christian congregated together in the Synagogues, as their very first Christian churches.

Jesus Christ observe Sabbath, His disciples observed Sabbath, and all Gentiles who are converted to Christ at that period of time also observed Sabbath, and the verses above and many other similar verses indicating in honest, because Christian Jews and Gentiles at that time traveled together, and Gentiles followed first Christian Jews in everything and never separated themselves from them, because they considered first Christian Jews as their teachers of Christ.

There is no place in the Bible there Sabbath has been discarded, and no where in the Bible indicated that we should congregate on Sunday. Therefore, Sabbath is the tradition of GOD, Sunday is the tradition of men, and which of these two traditions we shall follow and obey?

On the other hand, comparing to the Sabbath, some Jewish traditions indeed have been discarded, such as circumcision for example, and this was a big problem at that time, and quite a large portion of the Books of the New Testament have been dedicated to this particular issue.
And the point is, that the ritual circumcision becomes a spiritual thing under the Christ, and circumcision of the flesh was no longer necessary, but circumcision of the heart took its place, which also has proposed in the Old Testament by GOD.

Passover is also tradition of the Jewish Law, which has been converted by Jesus Christ into His special Passover, call it today as “communion” and as “last supper” and by other words.

Tradition of Baptism also came from the Jewish Law, and all Christians today and before observing it.

Singing of song, playing music, praying, all of it also came from the Jewish Law.

And to congregate on the particular Day to worship the Lord also came from the Jewish Law, which all Christians of the world follow “religiously”, with only difference that they do it on the wrong day of the week.

 
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BobRyan

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1. The SDA denomination is larger than Southern Baptist AND Seventh-day Baptist groups - COMBINED. (Oh no wait - they are cults too in your view??)

2. There are NO "weekday1 after weekday 1" worship services in the entire NT -- not one!

3. Not ONCE do NT Authors ever command the NT saints to keep week-day-1 holy.

4. there are MANY Sabbath after Sabbath worship services attended by NT Christian saints. Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- and the Apostolic church of Acts 15 actually "relied on this fact" to resolve their church dispute (see Acts 15).

5. In the New Heavens and new earth long AFTER the cross "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Is 66:23

What is more - even the following Sunday sources themselves argue for the continued binding authority of the Sabbath Commandment for all Christians to this very day. (So then just stating the obvious here).





You need to get out more.

Look the denominations up in places like "Adherents" -- get outside of your local community on this one because the World is a big place - as it turns out and "God so loved the WORLD that He gave..." not just from-scratch's 'local community".

I think we both knew that.






Acts 13

5 When they reached Salamis, they began to proclaim the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews; and they also had John as their helper.


14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets the synagogue officials sent to them...


42 As [w]Paul and Barnabas were going out, the people kept begging that these [x]things might be spoken to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up...


44 The next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of [z]the Lord.


Sorry Bob but these people that Paul and Barnabas preached to in the synagogue were Jews
.

They were believers in the one True God using the one true Bible - both Jews AND Gentiles in Acts 13, and Acts 17, and Acts 18.

And Sabbath after Sabbath the Christians that are gained continue to attend.


42 And having gone forth out of the synagogue of the Jews, the nations were calling upon [them] that on the next sabbath these sayings may be spoken to them,
43 and the synagogue having been dismissed, many of the Jews and of the devout proselytes did follow Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were persuading them to remain in the grace of God.
44 And on the coming sabbath, almost all the city was gathered together to hear the word of God,



Even these pro-Sunday Sources listed below this line - seem to get the point.

What is totally absent from this is where Paul says "no need to wait until next Sabbath to hear more about the Gospel - - just show up at our week-day-1 meeting tomorrow"



in Christ,

Bob
 
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LarryP2

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There is only one common theme that runs through every single important SDA doctrine, either overtly or subtly: Denigrating and Degrading the effect of the Resurrection, or denying the Divinity of Christ.

Unless you understand that, they will stitch together an impressive and mind-numbing stew of half-verses and unrelated and out of context verses to baffle the unwary, illiterate and non-Biblically savvy. It is an extremely devious and deceptive non-Christian cult. I wasted my first 22 years in it, so I know of what I speak. If you understand how their corrupt and un-Biblical system works, you need not debate then on their specific stitched-together rambling collection of half verses and verses taken out of context, because they all are held together with the common "glue" of denying or denigrating the divinity of Christ, or the effect of the Cross, or the effect of the Resurrection. Or all three.

First and foremost, the SDA Church would not exist were it not for their multiple false predictions of Christ's return between 1843 and 1850. They devised an amazing stitched-together and botched misinterpretation of Daniel 8:14 to repeatedly falsely predict the return of Christ. Throughout the cult's lifetime, there have been a truly-jaw dropping massive number of their own theologians who have denounced the 1844 scandal and its mutant bastard child: The Sanctuary Doctrine or the "Investigative Judgment(IJ)" Many of their own top theologians have declared the entire debacle unscriptural and unbiblical. Sadly, the cult's General Conference always fires their dedicated theologians and pastors for being honest about this clearly non-Biblical doctrine. Raymond Cottrell, their most distinguished theologian, waited until his retirement to denounce this Satanic and unbiblical doctrine.

Misusing Daniel 8:14 like that denigrates Christ, how? By making his return the subject of human prediction, by binding him time wise into your erroneous scripture-sculpting and stitching fetish. Like the Bible is some sort of esoteric code that only a few insiders can crack, rather than the extremely simple and plainly-obvious story of Gospel salvation that was given to the entire world at the Cross.

The IJ was strictly a face-saving fraud, devised out of thin air to compensate for the colossal disaster of 1844. The cult now posits Jesus entered the Holy of Holy places in Heaven in that year, to commence review of our conduct to see if we have earned our salvation with good works (in particular, Sabbath keeping). This necessitates an incomplete and unfinished work on the Cross, and a severe denigration of the effect of the Resurrection. This is the REAL reason that Adventist do not worship on Resurrection Day (Sunday and Easter) and insist on their Salvation by works-based Sabbath instead. They want to cow their terrified and panicked members into huddling together in paranoid fantasy, and relieving them of their money most importantly. They instill a paranoid and panicked fear of Roman Catholicism, who they falsely claim "changed Saturday to Sunday," and that one day the Catholics will hunt them down and murder them for keeping the Sabbath. That is a fairy tale that is pure, unvarnished paranoid conspiracy theory. Hence, their Sabbath keeping is really based on virulent Anti-Papacy paranoia coupled with an Un-Biblical fetish of Salvation by Works. Again, this entirely non-Biblical doctrine of Sabbath Keeping was absolutely proven false by their own theology professor, Dr. Samuele Bachiochi.

The IJ itself led logically to many satanic cult doctrines like Sabbath Keeping, Works based Salvation, following the Levitical dietary laws, and various forms of non-Christian and heretical views on the Trinity. In fact, for the first 100 years, the cult revived the ancient Arian Heresy and outright denied the Divinity of Christ. Due to the outcry from orthodox Christendom, they watered down their Arianism, and now deceptively teach a modified Aryanism known as Thritheism (while deceptively claiming they believe in the Trinity). It still is not the Trinity that has provided Salvation "once and for all" and that is THE CENTRAL doctrine of Christianity. The Adventist anti-Trinitariansm heresy eventually spawned such overtly Satantic cults such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, Worldwide Church of God and the Branch Davidians. Adventism is much more deceptive and thereby much more successful than those three satanic cults in that the genius of Adventism is to disguise mutant and unbiblical cult doctrines with a thin veneer of superficially Christian-sounding doctrines that disguise its true core. They even managed to sucker cult expert Walter Martin into believing that they were Orthodox Christianity, even though at the end of his life, Martin was ready to write a new book denouncing them as a non-Christian cult once he realized that he had been "Had."

So when they focus obsessively on the Sabbath (which in actual practice, is MUCH more important to them than the Cross or the Resurrection) beware of their perspective. Disregard their ludicrous scripture-sculpting and scripture stitching, and go right for the jugular: Their odious and anti-Christian history of teaching heretical cult doctrine denying or denigrating the Divinity and his role in the unified Godhead of the Trinity.
Last edited by LarryP2; 20th March 2014 at 02:01 PM.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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There is only one common theme that runs through every single important SDA doctrine, either overtly or subtly: Denigrating and Degrading the effect of the Resurrection, or denying the Divinity of Christ.

Unless you understand that, they will stitch together an impressive and mind-numbing stew of half-verses and unrelated and out of context verses to baffle the unwary, illiterate and non-Biblically savvy. It is an extremely devious and deceptive non-Christian cult. I wasted my first 22 years in it, so I know of what I speak. If you understand how their corrupt and un-Biblical system works, you need not debate then on their specific stitched-together rambling collection of half verses and verses taken out of context, because they all are held together with the common "glue" of denying or denigrating the divinity of Christ, or the effect of the Cross, or the effect of the Resurrection. Or all three.

First and foremost, the SDA Church would not exist were it not for their multiple false predictions of Christ's return between 1843 and 1850. They devised an amazing stitched-together and botched misinterpretation of Daniel 8:14 to repeatedly falsely predict the return of Christ. Throughout the cult's lifetime, there have been a truly-jaw dropping massive number of their own theologians who have denounced the 1844 scandal and its mutant bastard child: The Sanctuary Doctrine or the "Investigative Judgment(IJ)" Many of their own top theologians have declared the entire debacle unscriptural and unbiblical. Sadly, the cult's General Conference always fires their dedicated theologians and pastors for being honest about this clearly non-Biblical doctrine. Raymond Cottrell, their most distinguished theologian, waited until his retirement to denounce this Satanic and unbiblical doctrine.

Misusing Daniel 8:14 like that denigrates Christ, how? By making his return the subject of human prediction, by binding him time wise into your erroneous scripture-sculpting and stitching fetish. Like the Bible is some sort of esoteric code that only a few insiders can crack, rather than the extremely simple and plainly-obvious story of Gospel salvation that was given to the entire world at the Cross.

The IJ was strictly a face-saving fraud, devised out of thin air to compensate for the colossal disaster of 1844. The cult now posits Jesus entered the Holy of Holy places in Heaven in that year, to commence review of our conduct to see if we have earned our salvation with good works (in particular, Sabbath keeping). This necessitates an incomplete and unfinished work on the Cross, and a severe denigration of the effect of the Resurrection. This is the REAL reason that Adventist do not worship on Resurrection Day (Sunday and Easter) and insist on their Salvation by works-based Sabbath instead. They want to cow their terrified and panicked members into huddling together in paranoid fantasy, and relieving them of their money most importantly. They instill a paranoid and panicked fear of Roman Catholicism, who they falsely claim "changed Saturday to Sunday," and that one day the Catholics will hunt them down and murder them for keeping the Sabbath. That is a fairy tale that is pure, unvarnished paranoid conspiracy theory. Hence, their Sabbath keeping is really based on virulent Anti-Papacy paranoia coupled with an Un-Biblical fetish of Salvation by Works. Again, this entirely non-Biblical doctrine of Sabbath Keeping was absolutely proven false by their own theology professor, Dr. Samuele Bachiochi.

The IJ itself led logically to many satanic cult doctrines like Sabbath Keeping, Works based Salvation, following the Levitical dietary laws, and various forms of non-Christian and heretical views on the Trinity. In fact, for the first 100 years, the cult revived the ancient Arian Heresy and outright denied the Divinity of Christ. Due to the outcry from orthodox Christendom, they watered down their Arianism, and now deceptively teach a modified Aryanism known as Thritheism (while deceptively claiming they believe in the Trinity). It still is not the Trinity that has provided Salvation "once and for all" and that is THE CENTRAL doctrine of Christianity. The Adventist anti-Trinitariansm heresy eventually spawned such overtly Satantic cults such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, Worldwide Church of God and the Branch Davidians. Adventism is much more deceptive and thereby much more successful than those three satanic cults in that the genius of Adventism is to disguise mutant and unbiblical cult doctrines with a thin veneer of superficially Christian-sounding doctrines that disguise its true core. They even managed to sucker cult expert Walter Martin into believing that they were Orthodox Christianity, even though at the end of his life, Martin was ready to write a new book denouncing them as a non-Christian cult once he realized that he had been "Had."

So when they focus obsessively on the Sabbath (which in actual practice, is MUCH more important to them than the Cross or the Resurrection) beware of their perspective. Disregard their ludicrous scripture-sculpting and scripture stitching, and go right for the jugular: Their odious and anti-Christian history of teaching heretical cult doctrine denying or denigrating the Divinity and his role in the unified Godhead of the Trinity.
Last edited by LarryP2; 20th March 2014 at 02:01 PM.
Good info.
Thanks for sharing that.........


.
 
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