“Not In The Flesh”

WordSword

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In the NT the word “flesh” means “old man” or sin nature nearly every time it’s used; the OT usage is always in reference to the physical body. Romans 8:9 gives the saint the most “exhorting” word! It speaks of the sin nature (“flesh”) being in the believer, but the believer is not in the sin nature (something only God can do), but “in the Spirit.” The crux of this stupendous spiritual-growth truth is that the “old man” can no longer cause the Christian to desire to sin. It’s what the desire is in the heart that God wants, “For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also” (Mat 6:21). If our Father has our heart, He has the whole of us, because the treasure in a soul counts for all!

Paul owned up to the fact that the sin nature was his (Rom 7:14, 18). Thankfully he also owned up to the fact that it was no longer himself, after the new nature, that was sinning, but himself after the old man (vs 17, 20—which he was no longer a part of). He declared that he no longer desired to sin: “For that which I do I allow not” (v 15). This answers to his usage of the word “captive” (v23). A captive is held against his will and desire, thus his intention is to say that his sins are always against his desires; and this is where it all matters to God—in the desires of the heart.

Desire to please God instead of desire after the old man is exactly what God is always “working in us” (Phl 2:13). The saints desires after the new man (new nature) is all that the Father takes into account, thus His forgiveness and love are never broken, but are persistently and permanently exercised within us; as all He sees is that “treasure” (loving and pleasing God) which is eternally in the heart.

The gist of this entire issue is that Christians should never feel guilt concerning any issue, as God always brings us to repentance concerning our sins (unless we’re not really His yet). When we realize our sins we are still under God’s forgiveness because He knows we will always repent (1Jn 1:9); and it is the guilt that Christ’s Cross keeps us from (Mat 6:13), so that we can maintain an unbroken-peace as much as possible; so we can be used of Him, to draw the lost and strengthen the saved!!

NC
 
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In the NT the word “flesh” means “old man” or sin nature nearly every time it’s used; the OT usage is always in reference to the physical body. Romans 8:9 gives the saint the most “exhorting” word! It speaks of the sin nature (“flesh”) being in the believer, but the believer is not in the sin nature (something only God can do), but “in the Spirit.” The crux of this stupendous spiritual-growth truth is that the “old man” can no longer cause the Christian to desire to sin. It’s what the desire is in the heart that God wants, “For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also” (Mat 6:21). If our Father has our heart, He has the whole of us, because the treasure in a soul counts for all!

Paul owned up to the fact that the sin nature was his (Rom 7:14, 18). Thankfully he also owned up to the fact that it was no longer himself, after the new nature, that was sinning, but himself after the old man (vs 17, 20—which he was no longer a part of). He declared that he no longer desired to sin: “For that which I do I allow not” (v 15). This answers to his usage of the word “captive” (v23). A captive is held against his will and desire, thus his intention is to say that his sins are always against his desires; and this is where it all matters to God—in the desires of the heart.

Desire to please God instead of desire after the old man is exactly what God is always “working in us” (Phl 2:13). The saints desires after the new man (new nature) is all that the Father takes into account, thus His forgiveness and love are never broken, but are persistently and permanently exercised within us; as all He sees is that “treasure” (loving and pleasing God) which is eternally in the heart.

The gist of this entire issue is that Christians should never feel guilt concerning any issue, as God always brings us to repentance concerning our sins (unless we’re not really His yet). When we realize our sins we are still under God’s forgiveness because He knows we will always repent (1Jn 1:9); and it is the guilt that Christ’s Cross keeps us from (Mat 6:13), so that we can maintain an unbroken-peace as much as possible; so we can be used of Him, to draw the lost and strengthen the saved!!

NC

and yet christains are yet carnal/fleshy minded ... but this elder serves the younger ...
 
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WordSword

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and yet christains are yet carnal/fleshy minded ... but this elder serves the younger ...
Hi, and appreciate the reply! Yes, will remain carnal to an extent, due to the continued indwelling of the "old man" or sin nature--but no more "desire" after or for the sin (Phl 2:13); and that's mainly what God wants, in order to continue to teach us to exercise our faith in Christ's expiation for our sin!
 
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to put off our old man ( perception of flesh ) which Jesus likened to a husband not our own and this an image God made and is in the process of destroying is one and the same as to keep the first commandment which is Paul's "touch not the unclean thing" ... flesh can not keep the law however without it the law can not be written in us ... which one must then ask themselves how far is baptism from sin ....
 
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WordSword

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to put off our old man ( perception of flesh ) which Jesus likened to a husband not our own and this an image God made and is in the process of destroying is one and the same as to keep the first commandment which is Paul's "touch not the unclean thing" ... flesh can not keep the law however without it the law can not be written in us ... which one must then ask themselves how far is baptism from sin ....
"Putting of the old man" is not eradicating or killing it, but not listening to it, nor desiring after it! The only means to cease from sinning is if the old man (sin nature) were removed. The "old man crucified" (Rom 6:6) only restrains it from "dominating" the believer (v14), and nullifies its guilt.
 
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"Putting of the old man" is not eradicating or killing it, but not listening to it, nor desiring after it! The only means to cease from sinning is if the old man (sin nature) were removed. The "old man crucified" (Rom 6:6) only restrains it from "dominating" the believer (v14), and nullifies its guilt.

agreed ... its not a doing but a refraining ... as in a keeping of the law "thou shall not eat of it" ...
 
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Jan001

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In the NT the word “flesh” means “old man” or sin nature nearly every time it’s used; the OT usage is always in reference to the physical body. Romans 8:9 gives the saint the most “exhorting” word! It speaks of the sin nature (“flesh”) being in the believer, but the believer is not in the sin nature (something only God can do), but “in the Spirit.” The crux of this stupendous spiritual-growth truth is that the “old man” can no longer cause the Christian to desire to sin. It’s what the desire is in the heart that God wants, “For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also” (Mat 6:21). If our Father has our heart, He has the whole of us, because the treasure in a soul counts for all!

Paul owned up to the fact that the sin nature was his (Rom 7:14, 18). Thankfully he also owned up to the fact that it was no longer himself, after the new nature, that was sinning, but himself after the old man (vs 17, 20—which he was no longer a part of). He declared that he no longer desired to sin: “For that which I do I allow not” (v 15). This answers to his usage of the word “captive” (v23). A captive is held against his will and desire, thus his intention is to say that his sins are always against his desires; and this is where it all matters to God—in the desires of the heart.

Desire to please God instead of desire after the old man is exactly what God is always “working in us” (Phl 2:13). The saints desires after the new man (new nature) is all that the Father takes into account, thus His forgiveness and love are never broken, but are persistently and permanently exercised within us; as all He sees is that “treasure” (loving and pleasing God) which is eternally in the heart.

The gist of this entire issue is that Christians should never feel guilt concerning any issue, as God always brings us to repentance concerning our sins (unless we’re not really His yet). When we realize our sins we are still under God’s forgiveness because He knows we will always repent (1Jn 1:9); and it is the guilt that Christ’s Cross keeps us from (Mat 6:13), so that we can maintain an unbroken-peace as much as possible; so we can be used of Him, to draw the lost and strengthen the saved!!

NC
Sin separates us from God's saving grace. Hebrews 3:12, 1 John 3:8

Romans 8:12-13 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

We have a choice. If we choose to sin spiritually deadly sins after we have been saved, we die spiritually, and so we will not be approved to enter into eternal life with God unless we confess and repent of these sins before we die. It is the spiritual state of our souls at the time of death which determines our approval or disapproval to enter into eternal life. 1 John 1:9

1 Corinthians 6:8-10 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 
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WordSword

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Sin separates us from God's saving grace. Hebrews 3:12, 1 John 3:8
Hi, and like what you said. It's my understanding that there are two types of sin: willful and unwilful. If we sin "willfully" it manifests we are not reborn (Heb 10:26); but the sins of Christians are unwilful and always against their desire. "For that which I do I allow not"; here Paul is saying it is not his will to sin. I would say the sins of Christians are more impulsive (like jealousy, envy, pridefullness, etc., and not preplanned or intentional (Num 15:30).

Romans 8:12-13 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

We have a choice. If we choose to sin spiritually deadly sins after we have been saved, we die spiritually, and so we will not be approved to enter into eternal life with God unless we confess and repent of these sins before we die.
One who is reborn never chooses to knowingly sin against God because of His "work in you" (Phl 2:13).
 
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Hi, and like what you said. It's my understanding that there are two types of sin: willful and unwilful. If we sin "willfully" it manifests we are not reborn (Heb 10:26); but the sins of Christians are unwilful and always against their desire. "For that which I do I allow not"; here Paul is saying it is not his will to sin. I would say the sins of Christians are more impulsive (like jealousy, envy, pridefullness, etc., and not preplanned or intentional (Num 15:30).

I would say the the sins of the Christians who are striving to obey God can be more impulsive than premeditated. They do them without first thinking about what they are about to do.

A born again/baptized Christian can and does sin willfully whenever he does not overcome his temptations to sin. Every Christian is tempted by the world, by Satan and his minions, and by his own desires for riches, fame, etc.
One who is reborn never chooses to knowingly sin against God because of His "work in you" (Phl 2:13).
A Christian turns away from God when he sins spiritually deadly sins.

Paul warns the Christians:


1 Corinthians 6:7-10 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
 
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WordSword

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I would say the the sins of the Christians who are striving to obey God can be more impulsive than premeditated. They do them without first thinking about what they are about to do.
I agree! I do not know any Christian who sins of purpose, or "willfully." Continuing to sin willfully after knowing the "truth" manifests you haven't received the truth. You only received "the knowledge of the truth (Heb 10:26).
A born again/baptized Christian can and does sin willfully whenever he does not overcome his temptations to sin.
Yes, one who doesn't discontinues willful sinning is not reborn or saved. Christians of course cannot live without sinning, and your right about their sins being more impulsive, like pride, jealousy, envy, est.
Every Christian is tempted by the world, by Satan and his minions, and by his own desires for riches, fame, etc.
You got it right here, because there are three entities that constantly attempt to get our attention that we have to keep "putting off." I call it the unholy trinity, which is the same as what you've indicated: self ("old man" which is our closest enemy); Satan and society!!
 
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Jan001

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I agree! I do not know any Christian who sins of purpose, or "willfully." Continuing to sin willfully after knowing the "truth" manifests you haven't received the truth. You only received "the knowledge of the truth (Heb 10:26).

Jesus states that people can receive salvation and then later lose their salvation. They believe for a while, but then they fall away. Luke 8:13
Yes, one who doesn't discontinues willful sinning is not reborn or saved. Christians of course cannot live without sinning, and your right about their sins being more impulsive, like pride, jealousy, envy, est.
There are two types of sin. Sins which will cause the loss of eternal life if not confessed and repented before a person's death, and sins which will not cause the loss of eternal life if not confessed and repented before a person's death. 1 John 5:15-17

Jesus shows us the two types of sin.

The first type of sin puts us in danger of prison after death unless we atone for the sin when we are still on earth. Luke 12:57-59, 1 Corinthians 3:12-15

The second type of sin puts us in danger of eternal hell. And we will go there after death if we do not confess and repent this type of sin before we die.

Matthew 5:22 But I say this to you: Anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment, and whoever addresses his brother in an insulting way will answer for it before the Sanhedrin (prison), and whoever calls his brother a fool (scorning him) will be liable to the fires (eternal hellfire) of Gehenna.

Everything we do will be judged, even frivolous conversations.

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.




 
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WordSword

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Jesus states that people can receive salvation and then later lose their salvation. They believe for a while, but then they fall away. Luke 8:13
They haven't "falling away" from salvation itself, but from the doctrine of salvation (hypocrite, same as an apostate).
 
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WordSword

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Jesus states that people can receive salvation and then later lose their salvation. They believe for a while, but then they fall away. Luke 8:13
"Which for a while believe:" their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus (Simon the sorcerer - Act 8:13); which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not (Luk 22:32). -John Gill
 
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"Which for a while believe:" their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus (Simon the sorcerer - Act 8:13); which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not (Luk 22:32). -John Gill
If a person believes, doesn't he have faith?
 
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WordSword

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How do you think a person receives salvation?
By truly believing in the Lord Jesus! One can't claim belief if it's not permanent (Mat 24:13). If they discontinue the Christian life they were never saved (1Jo 2:19). You can't say you believe and later say you don't believe! Believing is like receiving eternal life. You can't loose eternal life, because it's eternal!
 
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WordSword

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If a person believes, doesn't he have faith?
I like your inquires and comments, they are to the point! Yes, but the proof of belief is in the lifestyle. Genuine faith is permanent and always is manifested by good works: "I will shew thee my faith by my works" (Jas 2:18). No works--no faith! You can't have works without faith either!!
 
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They haven't "falling away" from salvation itself, but from the doctrine of salvation (hypocrite, same as an apostate).
How do you understand the following:

Galatians 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

I believe they lost their salvation. They no longer have the Holy Spirit living within them. If they do not repent before they die, Jesus will not approve them worthy to inherit eternal life.
 
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