How Old Is The Earth

Platte · Apr 19, 2024

Diamond7 said:
There are two words that no one understands and that is why no one understands the Bible. The word beginning and the word for day one. Which actually means unity. Day one is a paradigm. All the other days are a copy of day one.

Because they do not understand what beginning means they have not begun to understand the Bible. If you deny OEC you deny that there was a beginning. Because you deny that the light had to travel to get from there to here. Schroeder and Hughs explains this but no one wants to have the understanding of a fifth grader in science.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

Hugh's Story

reasons.org

The light had to travel?

Platte · Apr 19, 2024

KevinT said:
1 Cor 7:12: To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.

Did God write this?

Gal 5:12 I wish that the people who are upsetting you would go all the way; let them go on and castrate themselves!

How about this? Jesus and the Father are transmitting messages to Paul for him to write that they wish people who oppose Paul's message to have their d***'s cut off? I don't think so.

I believe in the Bible, as I have posted before. But it would be foolish to not apply our God-give common sense to understanding the Bible.

Best wishes,
Kevin

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn’t saying the entire Bible is what God said. I was saying we do have words that are direct from God. Such as
”And God spake all these words, saying,“
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭1‬ ‭KJV‬‬
….
”For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.“
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Creation occuring in 6 days are words directly from God is what i was saying

BNR32FAN · Apr 19, 2024

Platte said:
The light had to travel?

He’s referring to the stars being 46 billion light years away so he’s saying If God created the stars 6,000 years ago we wouldn’t be able to see them as if this were something God could not possibly accomplish. He’s said a lot of things tho like in Genesis 1:26 man was born from a woman, somehow, it was a Neanderthal man with no soul and was the father of Adam who was BORN in Genesis 2. He says because of the different spelling of the Hebrew word translated to man in Genesis 1:26 from the spelling of the word translated to man in Genesis 2 the word used in Genesis 1 only refers to man without a soul and the one used in Genesis 2 refers to man with a soul. To which I pointed out that the same exact Hebrew word with the same exact Hebrew spelling is used in 1 Chronicles 1:1 which is a genealogy record beginning with Adam then Seth and so on. That Hebrew word used in Genesis 1:26 is translated to Adam in 1 Chronicles 1:1 so obviously that proved him wrong but he doesn’t care he supposedly went to Bible college so that makes him right somehow. Then throughout our discussions he revealed that Jesus didn’t walk on water, he walked on ice and apparently Peter isn’t skilled at walking on “icebergs” (his exact words) which is why he fell in the water. I kind of feel dumb now because this whole time I thought Jesus was actually performing a miracle and that the reason Peter fell into the water was be he got scared and lost faith. Guess I should’ve went to bible college to learn all about the icebergs in the Galilee Sea, I had no idea they were so common in the Middle East. Then he claimed that Lot’s wife was turned into a pillar of salt by a meteor. And Christ could’ve been resurrected after being dead for 3 days because he himself was resuscitated after having a heart attack if I’m not mistaken. Although I suspect he might’ve been resuscitated sooner than Christ was I didn’t ask tho. Also he claims the flood didn’t cover the entire earth and it didn’t kill all the land dwelling animals, Jesus taught not to put our traditions over science, and that death did come into the world before Adam sinned. Hopefully this gives you some insight on his superior knowledge of the scriptures that he attained in Bible college. It’s too bad that we didn’t go to Bible college and as a result are stuck with our “5th grader” understanding of science.

Diamond7 · Apr 19, 2024

Platte said:
The light had to travel?

We know that light travels. That is why we determine the universe is 13 billion years old. (13.8) God created everything in an instant. Less than a trillionth of a second. What they call a plank era. He had to create time itself along with space, matter and energy. The universe began as hydrogen, helium and lithium. All the other elements came from these three. He also had to create the laws of physics.

Diamond7 · Apr 19, 2024

BNR32FAN said:
He’s said a lot of things tho like in Genesis 1:26 man was born from a woman, somehow, it was a Neanderthal man

Man came up out of Africa into a land controlled by Neanderthal. Over time Neanderthal went extinct the the biodiverse eco system began to support the man that came up out of Africa.

We see the reason why when they returned to their land after being in Egypt.

Ecological Balance
- God warned that an immediate conquest would leave the land desolate, allowing wild animals to multiply unchecked.
- An empty land would disrupt the ecological balance, potentially posing a threat to Israel’s existence.
Population Growth:
- The takeover was to occur little by little, allowing time for Israel’s population to increase.
- As the Israelites multiplied, they would be better equipped to replace the Canaanites and maintain control over the land.
“The Seven Daughters of Eve” is a captivating book by Bryan Sykes. In this groundbreaking work, Sykes reveals how the identification of a particular strand of DNA that passes unbroken through the maternal line allows scientists to trace our genetic makeup all the way back to prehistoric times—to seven primeval women, the “seven daughters of Eve” 1. The book delves into the fascinating journey of human ancestry, connecting us to our ancient foremothers and unraveling the threads of our genetic heritage.
The Eve we read about in the Bible was one of those seven. Although now they say there are 19 if you count China.
This is what the DNA indicates.

Diamond7 · Apr 19, 2024

BNR32FAN said:
that proved him wrong but he doesn’t care he supposedly went to Bible college so that makes him right somehow.

I am talking about science. You can look at the web site of Hugh Ross. He know a LOT more about this than I do. He is a PhD. Also Gerold Schroeder has a phd. I also read Neil Degrasse Tyson. Although we never seem to get past the first page of his book.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

Hugh Ross

Reasons to Believe emerged from my passion to research, develop, and proclaim compelling new reasons to believe in Jesus Christ as Creator, Lord, and Savior and to use these new reasons to help people put their trust in him. I am eager to equip Christians to engage in conversation with...

reasons.org

Platte · Apr 19, 2024

Diamond7 said:
I am talking about science. You can look at the web site of Hugh Ross. He know a LOT more about this than I do. He is a PhD. Also Gerold Schroeder has a phd. I also read Neil Degrasse Tyson. Although we never seem to get past the first page of his book.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

Hugh Ross

Reasons to Believe emerged from my passion to research, develop, and proclaim compelling new reasons to believe in Jesus Christ as Creator, Lord, and Savior and to use these new reasons to help people put their trust in him. I am eager to equip Christians to engage in conversation with...

reasons.org

So here is the question that no one seems to want to answer....WHAT DOES SCIENCE HAVE TO DO WITH CREATION? If I created a man out of the dust of the earth...created him as a full grown man - do we expect Science to be able to offer any explanation? People keep talking about Science when it comes to Creation like its suppossed to offer a positive or negative explanation to it. Can't we all agree that Science cannot offer any explanation to Creation?

Diamond7 · Apr 19, 2024

Platte said:
If I created a man out of the dust of the earth...created him as a full grown man

Show me anyone - anywhere in the world that does not have DNA that goes back at least 43,000 years. Have you run your DNA on 23andme? If you have then show me what you have to show your DNA ONLY goes back 6,000 years. Give me something, anything in the way of evidence to back up your claim.

DNA Genetic Testing For Health, Ancestry And More - 23andMe

23andMe offers DNA testing with the most comprehensive ancestry breakdown, personalized health insights and more.

www.23andme.com

Science and DNA indicates that your statement is not true. If you are not from the middle east you did not descend from the Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Have you studies the generations in the Bible at all? MANY people skip over them and do not read them. Paul tells us that the gentiles were grafted into the family tree of Abraham. He is a common ancestor for the free children through Sarah and the children of bondange though Hagar. Romans 11:21 "For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either."

Could be as many as 2 billion people today are descended from Abraham and Adam in the Garden of Eden. Currently the worlds population is about 8 billion people. The population has triples in my lifetime.

Have you heard of Y-chromosomal Aaron? Have you studied Haplogroup J. If you did you would not be making the statement you made.

The data shows that the Cohanim were more than twice as likely to belong to Haplogroup J than the average non-Cohen Jew; and of those who did belong to Haplogroup J, the Cohanim were more than twice as likely to have an STR pattern close to the CMH-6, suggesting a much more recent common ancestry for most of them.

BNR32FAN · Apr 19, 2024

Diamond7 said:
I am talking about science. You can look at the web site of Hugh Ross. He know a LOT more about this than I do. He is a PhD. Also Gerold Schroeder has a phd. I also read Neil Degrasse Tyson. Although we never seem to get past the first page of his book.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

Hugh Ross

Reasons to Believe emerged from my passion to research, develop, and proclaim compelling new reasons to believe in Jesus Christ as Creator, Lord, and Savior and to use these new reasons to help people put their trust in him. I am eager to equip Christians to engage in conversation with...

reasons.org

Exactly and where did science lead you on all the other miracles I mentioned? These are your explanations.

Heres your response to my question did Jesus walk on water.

Diamond7 said:
The Sea of Galilee is fresh water, not salt water. So it does form ice. Most likely Peter did not know how to balance himself on what we call an ice berg. A hypothesis is a possible answer to a question. Clearly science tells us we can walk on water. Or even ice skate. I also remember the ice breaking and people going into the water when I was a kid skating on a pond near our house.

Here is your response to my question did Lot’s wife turn into a pillar of salt.

Diamond7 said:
The oceans have a salinity (salt content) of 35ppt. The Dead Sea has an average salinity of 290ppt, almost nine times saltier than the oceans. If a meteor hit the dead sea and caused a tsunami then science does support that she could have been turned into a pillar of salt.

Here is your response to my question was Jesus resurrected after being dead for 3 days.

Diamond7 said:
I would not be a Christian if Science was not so limited in what Science can do. As a Christian we can go far beyond what Science can do. As they say nothing is impossible for God. I had an issue on Aug of 2005 where my chance of survival was one in 1500. My wife and my son prayed me through and I was revived and resuscitated. There are lots of time when I would not be alive if I had to depend on Science and not God.

Thankfully you didn’t reject the virgin birth when I asked about that, I give you that. What you fail to recognize is that is that the Bible is filled with miracles that were specifically INTENDED TO BE IMPOSSIBLE. Ananias and Saphira died right there on the spot for lying to the Holy Spirit. It wasn’t science, it wasn’t natural occurrence, it wasn’t a coincidence, it was divine intervention. Peter told them what their fate was right before it happened. God miraculously killed them for a specific purpose to make an example to everyone. Science has not disproven anything in the biblical creation account. Your resorting to all these ridiculous interpretations in order to try to coincide science with the Bible when the very definition of a miracle is something that cannot be explained by science or natural occurrence.

BNR32FAN · Apr 19, 2024

Diamond7 said:
Man came up out of Africa into a land controlled by Neanderthal. Over time Neanderthal went extinct the the biodiverse eco system began to support the man that came up out of Africa.

View attachment 346159
We see the reason why when they returned to their land after being in Egypt.

Ecological Balance

God warned that an immediate conquest would leave the land desolate, allowing wild animals to multiply unchecked.

An empty land would disrupt the ecological balance, potentially posing a threat to Israel’s existence.

Population Growth:

The takeover was to occur little by little, allowing time for Israel’s population to increase.

As the Israelites multiplied, they would be better equipped to replace the Canaanites and maintain control over the land.

“The Seven Daughters of Eve” is a captivating book by Bryan Sykes. In this groundbreaking work, Sykes reveals how the identification of a particular strand of DNA that passes unbroken through the maternal line allows scientists to trace our genetic makeup all the way back to prehistoric times—to seven primeval women, the “seven daughters of Eve” 1. The book delves into the fascinating journey of human ancestry, connecting us to our ancient foremothers and unraveling the threads of our genetic heritage.

The Eve we read about in the Bible was one of those seven. Although now they say there are 19 if you count China.

This is what the DNA indicates.

These are assumptions it’s not proven.

Diamond7 · Apr 19, 2024

BNR32FAN said:
These are assumptions it’s not proven.

Science has what they call hypothesis not assumptions. You have all the opportunity to prove that we did NOT come out of Africa. Usually with a different hypothesis. For example some people believe all the people in the world are descended from Noah and his sons. The question is what does the evidence support.

Just what do you object to in the chapter on DNA in your high school biology book. Just what do you not agree with?

Can you show a different theory? Have you studied Paleoanthropology. I actually do have a friend that teaches at the medical college that has a PhD in Anthropology. Of course there is a lot of research on DNA so a lot of new information is coming out all the time. I remember reading the book "The Double Helix" back in the 60's when it first came out: The classic personal account of Watson and Crick’s groundbreaking discovery of the structure of DNA. I was complaining about not having any books to read so the school started to provide us with a list of books that we could order. I think they still do that today.

What is even more interesting to me is how farming spread from Adam and Eve in the middle east to Europe and the rest of the world. They have put a lot of study and research into understanding that part of this subject.

Diamond7 · Apr 19, 2024

BNR32FAN said:
Thankfully you didn’t reject the virgin birth

How many people can not accept that she was a virgin all of her life. The Bible is FILLED with genealogies of all the people from Eve to Mary. The one thing I want to see in Heaven is when Mary and Eve first met each other and what they talked about. We do not have to prove something did happen. WE only have to prove that it is possible that it could have happened.

I do appreciate that you take the time and trouble to have some regard to what I am saying.

SuperCow · Apr 19, 2024

Maria Billingsley said:
...and a day is a thousand years. So logically speaking it can not be both at the same time nor is it " for us". Scripture is telling us that God is outside of time where both one day and a thousand years are the same. Blessings

Actually, it can be both at the same time, even for us. (My algebra teacher taught me to show my work, so here goes.)

Using this standard relativity formula:

We can make these calculations.
1.) 1000 years = 365,240 days. (Rounded for whole leap years) Therefore t = 1 day and t(o) = 365,240 days. c = the speed of light (299,792 km/s or 186,282 mi/s, but for now use c=1 and we'll multiply it back later.) That leaves us to solve for "v"
2.) Substitute each (t) and divide both sides by t(o) and you get:

3.) Now square both sides and substitute c = 1 for now:

4.) Add v-squared to both sides, and subtract 1/t(0)-squared from both sides:

5.) Now use a calculator with a lot of digits to calculate the right side:

6.) Take the square root of both sides:

This is the ratio of the speed of light one must travel for one day of the traveler (God) to be equivalent to 1000 years for an observer (man). Multiply that ratio by 299,752,458 meters per second. or 186,282.397 miles per second. (for the Americans)

Other calculations can be done for general relativity which takes into account gravitational forces. In other words, if God was very close to the event horizon of a black hole, an observer could also wait 1000 years for a day to pass for God.

In an early universe where gravity does not exist yet, because of the physics of the big bang, other considerations might come into play. Now to be clear, the scriptures do not explicitly say that God is outside space and time, but it's easy to argue that it may be implied, assuming one does not want to place any kind of restrictions on God's power.

In any event, now that you've seen these calculations, you will know what speed people are referring to when they tell you "Godspeed!"

BNR32FAN · Apr 19, 2024

Diamond7 said:
Science has what they call hypothesis not assumptions. You have all the opportunity to prove that we did NOT come out of Africa. Usually with a different hypothesis. For example some people believe all the people in the world are descended from Noah and his sons. The question is what does the evidence support.

What does the evidence support, you ask? Well the evidence from the Bible supports the idea that we all came from Noah and his family. The evidence from science says otherwise. Neither are conclusive apart from faith. So each of us are faced with the choice of which one we choose to have faith in.

Diamond7 · Apr 19, 2024

Maria Billingsley said:
Scripture is telling us that God is outside of time where both one day and a thousand years are the same.

You can not divorce time and matter. Dispensationalism has to do with the age or era we are now living in.

Diamond7 · Apr 19, 2024

BNR32FAN said:
Well the evidence from the Bible supports the idea that we all came from Noah and his family.

The Bible does not say that. In genesis chapter one we have a dispute with the meaning or definition of the word day. One group saying a day is a literal 24 hours. Then we have others that say a day is an age or era. This is based on the fact that there are very few Hebrew words and they often have multiple meaning. But all of the dispute has to do with ONE WORD.

This is the same with Noah, all of the dispute has to do with the word earth. We know that Noah and his family need food to eat. We need plants and animals and that is what Noah saved. All of the Bible talks about the animals and the plants that Noah saved on the ark. If it is in the Bible then it was on Noah's ark. What is not in the Bible was not on the ark.

In the Pacific for example there are 10,000 islands all with their own unique species. WE all know it would be impossible for every animal in the world to be on the ark. The whole world was destroyed 200 million years ago at the time of Pangea. Some people believe that Noah's flood was a shadow and a type of when the whole world was covered with water. Job 37:10 talks about the water freezing. “By the breath of God, ice is formed, and the broad waters become frozen. ”WE know that the earth was covered with glaciers but the water in Noah's flood did not freeze.
Job was written before Genesis and they say Moses did not repeat what we can read in Job 22:15 "15Will you stay on the ancient path that wicked men have trod? 16 They were snatched away before their time, and their foundations were swept away by a flood."

We can see in both stories how important one word is. Not everyone cares to reconcile Science and the Bible but I do. Because I believe that God expresses and reveals Himself in BOTH science and the Bible. Both give a witness and testimony for God so people are without excuse.

Platte · Apr 19, 2024

Diamond7 said:
Show me anyone - anywhere in the world that does not have DNA that goes back at least 43,000 years. Have you run your DNA on 23andme? If you have then show me what you have to show your DNA ONLY goes back 6,000 years. Give me something, anything in the way of evidence to back up your claim.

DNA Genetic Testing For Health, Ancestry And More - 23andMe

23andMe offers DNA testing with the most comprehensive ancestry breakdown, personalized health insights and more.

www.23andme.com

Science and DNA indicates that your statement is not true. If you are not from the middle east you did not descend from the Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Have you studies the generations in the Bible at all? MANY people skip over them and do not read them. Paul tells us that the gentiles were grafted into the family tree of Abraham. He is a common ancestor for the free children through Sarah and the children of bondange though Hagar. Romans 11:21 "For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either."

Could be as many as 2 billion people today are descended from Abraham and Adam in the Garden of Eden. Currently the worlds population is about 8 billion people. The population has triples in my lifetime.

Have you heard of Y-chromosomal Aaron? Have you studied Haplogroup J. If you did you would not be making the statement you made.

The data shows that the Cohanim were more than twice as likely to belong to Haplogroup J than the average non-Cohen Jew; and of those who did belong to Haplogroup J, the Cohanim were more than twice as likely to have an STR pattern close to the CMH-6, suggesting a much more recent common ancestry for most of them.

View attachment 346161

We are all descendants from Adam and Eve. Recorded History began about 6000 years ago....Civilization began about 6000 years ago. The universe was created about 6000 years ago. DNA

Diamond7 said:
Show me anyone - anywhere in the world that does not have DNA that goes back at least 43,000 years. Have you run your DNA on 23andme? If you have then show me what you have to show your DNA ONLY goes back 6,000 years. Give me something, anything in the way of evidence to back up your claim.

DNA Genetic Testing For Health, Ancestry And More - 23andMe

23andMe offers DNA testing with the most comprehensive ancestry breakdown, personalized health insights and more.

www.23andme.com

Science and DNA indicates that your statement is not true. If you are not from the middle east you did not descend from the Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Have you studies the generations in the Bible at all? MANY people skip over them and do not read them. Paul tells us that the gentiles were grafted into the family tree of Abraham. He is a common ancestor for the free children through Sarah and the children of bondange though Hagar. Romans 11:21 "For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either."

Could be as many as 2 billion people today are descended from Abraham and Adam in the Garden of Eden. Currently the worlds population is about 8 billion people. The population has triples in my lifetime.

Have you heard of Y-chromosomal Aaron? Have you studied Haplogroup J. If you did you would not be making the statement you made.

The data shows that the Cohanim were more than twice as likely to belong to Haplogroup J than the average non-Cohen Jew; and of those who did belong to Haplogroup J, the Cohanim were more than twice as likely to have an STR pattern close to the CMH-6, suggesting a much more recent common ancestry for most of them.

View attachment 346161

junk science if you even want to call it science. Interesting how you accept junk science as fact so easily yet scrutinize the Bible, which as been proven historically accurate time and time again. Do you know how many generations you would have to go back to get our common ancestors, which we all have?

Platte · Apr 19, 2024

Diamond7 said:
You can not divorce time and matter. Dispensationalism has to do with the age or era we are now living in.

Dispensationalism is not Biblical. Diamond7 I can tell you have a very logical and intellectual mind - tell me how the universe could have been created 6000 years ago despite what science it telling you? Why was the universe created?

Platte · Apr 19, 2024

BNR32FAN said:
He’s referring to the stars being 46 billion light years away so he’s saying If God created the stars 6,000 years ago we wouldn’t be able to see them as if this were something God could not possibly accomplish. He’s said a lot of things tho like in Genesis 1:26 man was born from a woman, somehow, it was a Neanderthal man with no soul and was the father of Adam who was BORN in Genesis 2. He says because of the different spelling of the Hebrew word translated to man in Genesis 1:26 from the spelling of the word translated to man in Genesis 2 the word used in Genesis 1 only refers to man without a soul and the one used in Genesis 2 refers to man with a soul. To which I pointed out that the same exact Hebrew word with the same exact Hebrew spelling is used in 1 Chronicles 1:1 which is a genealogy record beginning with Adam then Seth and so on. That Hebrew word used in Genesis 1:26 is translated to Adam in 1 Chronicles 1:1 so obviously that proved him wrong but he doesn’t care he supposedly went to Bible college so that makes him right somehow. Then throughout our discussions he revealed that Jesus didn’t walk on water, he walked on ice and apparently Peter isn’t skilled at walking on “icebergs” (his exact words) which is why he fell in the water. I kind of feel dumb now because this whole time I thought Jesus was actually performing a miracle and that the reason Peter fell into the water was be he got scared and lost faith. Guess I should’ve went to bible college to learn all about the icebergs in the Galilee Sea, I had no idea they were so common in the Middle East. Then he claimed that Lot’s wife was turned into a pillar of salt by a meteor. And Christ could’ve been resurrected after being dead for 3 days because he himself was resuscitated after having a heart attack if I’m not mistaken. Although I suspect he might’ve been resuscitated sooner than Christ was I didn’t ask tho. Also he claims the flood didn’t cover the entire earth and it didn’t kill all the land dwelling animals, Jesus taught not to put our traditions over science, and that death did come into the world before Adam sinned. Hopefully this gives you some insight on his superior knowledge of the scriptures that he attained in Bible college. It’s too bad that we didn’t go to Bible college and as a result are stuck with our “5th grader” understanding of science.

I went to Bible college lol. Taking a humanistic worldview is not uncommon. Trying to explain creation and miracles using science is part of that. When Creation occurred is not a scientific question it’s a historical one and history supports creation occuring 6000 years ago.

Diamond7 · Apr 19, 2024

Platte said:
Dispensationalism is not Biblical.

1,000 years is not only Bible, it is Moses himself. Also God told Adam on the DAY you eat of the forbidden fruit you will day. WE know Adam lived to be 930 years old. This makes a "day" 1,000 year. Psalm 90:4 "A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by"

2 Peter 3:8
Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

The Bible is very clear about a day being 1,000 years. A day can be 24 hours or it can be an age or era.

Notice Genesis 2:4 and 2:17 day is the exact same spelling.

Genesis 2:4
HEB: וְהָאָ֖רֶץ בְּהִבָּֽרְאָ֑ם בְּי֗וֹם עֲשׂ֛וֹת יְהוָ֥ה
NAS: when they were created, in the day that the LORD
KJV: when they were created, in the day that the LORD
INT: and the earth were created the day made the LORD

Genesis 2:17
HEB: מִמֶּ֑נּוּ כִּ֗י בְּי֛וֹם אֲכָלְךָ֥ מִמֶּ֖נּוּ
NAS: you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat
KJV: thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest
INT: at in the day you eat at

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