Tribulation Calculations.

Marilyn C said:

Although we disagree on the details, we are very sure of the Lord coming for His Body, very soon.

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When do we Christians get released from the Great Commission? Matthew 28:19-20 is quite clear: we are to proclaim the Gospel until He comes, at the end of this age.
I also ask: what use to God will we be in heaven? He made us to live on earth, it is our home and we have tasks to do here. It would be a failure of Gods plans for His people, if He has to take us away.

I would suggest that rapture believers have a plan B. And that would be what we are actually told to do, when events unfold and disaster strikes.: To stand firm in our faith and trust the Lord for protection. 1 Corinthians 10:13

keras said:

When do we Christians get released from the Great Commission?

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When we leave this earth, either by death or by rapture to heaven.

Douggg said:

When we leave this earth, either by death or by rapture to heaven.

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Just what Bible do you have, Douggg?
Such ideas as leaving the earth at death and going to live in heaven, are not stated in any of the Bibles I have.

Unless you give us the verses that say what you believe, then you are wrong and are a promoter of false doctrines.

keras said:

Just what Bible do you have, Douggg?
Such ideas as leaving the earth at death and going to live in heaven, are not stated in any of the Bibles I have.

Unless you give us the verses that say what you believe, then you are wrong and are a promoter of false doctrines.

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Paul Apostle warned: 2Corinthians 11:3--> But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted...
Red heifer - post 20

keras said:

Just what Bible do you have, Douggg?
Such ideas as leaving the earth at death and going to live in heaven, are not stated in any of the Bibles I have.

Unless you give us the verses that say what you believe, then you are wrong and are a promoter of false doctrines.

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Examples would be in Revelation 7:9-12. The souls of them coming out of the great tribulation are in heaven before the throne of God, as are the all the angels, the elders and the four beasts.

Paul wrote in Philippians 1:21-23.

21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

In 2Corinthians5:8

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Douggg said:

Examples would be in Revelation 7:9-12. The souls of them coming out of the great tribulation are in heaven before the throne of God, as are the all the angels, the elders and the four beasts.

Paul wrote in Philippians 1:21-23.

21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

In 2Corinthians5:8

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

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Abject failure.
What Paul is saying; is his desire, not something that takes place at death. However it will after the GWT Judgment, and for every person who has died, it will be at their next conscious moment.

Revelation 7 never mentions heaven. You have added to Revelation. You need to retract it and repent!
That chapter is entirely about earthly scenes. Even Rev 7:15-17 will happen on the new earth. Rev 21:1-7

NONE of your verses say anyone will actually go to live in heaven, or that people leave the earth at death. [just their souls, presumably]
The only people who will have that privilege will be the martyrs killed during the 42 month reign of the 'beast'. Rev 20:4

keras said:

Revelation 7 never mentions heaven.

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Where to you think the throne that the angels and the 24 elders and the 4 beasts were also along with the great multitude were present before the throne of God? In heaven, keras. Heaven is where John was taken, "come up hither" to in Revelation 4.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Jesus the Lamb is sitting at the right hand of God right now.

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Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold,a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

************THE LAST DECADE - 2020-2030 - COUNTDOWN************

march 30-2024 is the 1184th day of the LAST DECADE of the Devil's world.

the begining of the last week - Daniel 9:27 - is within of this current last decade.

but first will be ELECTED the LAST Pope - THE NEXT -

Be careful and get ready
be focused for the last week of years of the Devil's world, and LITERAL fulfillment of Revelation 11:15-18.

Two WARS run in the Earth-Russia/Ukraine & Israel/Palestine- , the worst WAR will happen in HEAVEN, a celestial ENVIRONMENT (Eph.1:3-8),a spiritual WAR-Revelation 11:15-18; and one of the 7 heads of the Beast of sea, a Gentile Beast-Revelation 13:1- the MAIN PARTNER of the Dragon - Revelation 13:11 combined with Re.13:2, will be mortally wounded-Re.13:3, and Isaiah 51:9-16 reveal as follow:
9 Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; awake , as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut RAHAB, and wounded the DRAGON?

10 Art thou not it which has dried the sea(sea, by allegory, now is peoples,and NATIONS,and multitudes of all tongues),the waters of the great deep; that has made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over? (You know the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea,and walk through a desert until they got to the Promised Land.What about GOD's people now in this current time?) Now GOD's people must go through(I mean win a war) against the Red Dragon)

11 Therefore the redeemed of the Lord shall return, and come with singing unto Zion;and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away

12 I ,even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou,that thou should be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;

13 And forgettest the Lord thy maker, that has stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and has feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? where is the fury of the oppressor?

14 The captive exile hastenes that he may be loosed, and that he should not die in the pit, nor that his bread should fail.

15 But I am the Lord thy GOD, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The Lord of hosts is His name.

16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Get ready

John 20: 1-22

20 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.

4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.

5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.

6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,

7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.

8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

10 Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.

11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,

12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.

14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit:

Douggg said:

Where to you think the throne that the angels and the 24 elders and the 4 beasts were also along with the great multitude were present before the throne of God? In heaven, keras

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You are set into your wrong beliefs. I have posted on the forums many times; how heaven is a Spiritual concept and how God's Throne can be seen from the earth, if God wills it. Ezekiel 1:1, Acts 7:56

The vast multitude is on earth; in Jerusalen, where all the faithful Christian peoples will be soon after the Sixth Seal has cleared and cleansed the entire area.

The total lack of any Bible verse to say how and when those people got to heaven, destroys any idea of the Rev 7:9 living people being in heaven.

keras said:

The vast multitude is on earth; in Jerusalen, where all the faithful Christian peoples will be soon after the Sixth Seal has cleared and cleansed the entire area.

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No, the vast multitude in the text are before the throne of God with Jesus sitting at God's right hand. The angels, and the 24 elders, and the four beasts are there as well, before the throne of God with Jesus sitting at God's right hand. In heaven.

In Revelation 4, John was raptured up to heaven when a portal was opened - and he heard "Come up hither". Where the throne of God is. And the twenty four elders. And the four beasts full of eyes.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Douggg said:

No, the vast multitude in the text are before the throne of God with Jesus sitting at God's right hand.

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This is purely your unsupported opinion.
Are there palms growing in heaven?

John went to heaven in the Spirit, just for the purpose of receiving the vision of Revelation. You cannot use that as a rapture proof.

Bible Prophecy tells us that Gods faithful people will gather into all of the holy Land. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26, Psalms 107:1-3, Psalms 37:9m +
Humans do not ever go to live in heaven. You and the millions of other people, who believe their destiny is heaven; are good people but are misguided and deluded, will soon face the great test of our faith. 1 Peter 4:12
When you and everyone who have believed they will be raptured, find themselves still in the midst of worldwide disaster, will you Call upon His Name and endure , or will you think God has failed and you have been left behind to your possible death.

keras said:

This is purely your unsupported opinion.
Are there palms growing in heaven?

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Yes, there are palm trees in heaven.

It is not my opinion, it is in the text, that they are standing before the throne of God and before Jesus, praising God and Jesus. With angels present. And the 24 elders and the four beasts, who fell to their faces worshiping God.


9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

It is not my opinion. They all are in heaven, keras. Before the throne of God and Jesus who sits at the Father's right hand.

Douggg said:

Yes, there are palm trees in heaven.

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Spiritual palm trees? Whatever next - spiritual toilet facilities?

Douggg said:

It is not my opinion. They all are in heaven, keras. Before the throne of God and Jesus who sits at the Father's right hand.

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But the truth is you are wrong, because Revelation 7:1-3 sets an earthly scene and nowhere does it say the Prophecy changes location.

I realize that for you and all who grip onto the idea of a rapture to heaven, the proof of Prophecy that shows the holy peoples of God present in the holy Land, is a hard fact to swallow. It blows apart your entire end times paradigm and means that you have been deceived.
It shows you simply haven't taken care to not be deceived. Matthew 24:4 Care enough to really see what the Prophesies actually say.

The Prophetic Word never says the Lord will take His people to live in heaven.
Revelation 7 never mentions heaven as to where the vast multitude are. I suggest you change your 'opinion' and rethink your entire end times beliefs.

keras said:

Spiritual palm trees? Whatever next - spiritual toilet facilities?

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Why are you calling the palm trees "spiritual" ?

keras said:

But the truth is you are wrong, because Revelation 7:1-3 sets an earthly scene and nowhere does it say the Prophecy changes location.

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Yes it does. Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

keras said:

Revelation 7 never mentions heaven as to where the vast multitude are. I suggest you change your 'opinion' and rethink your entire end times beliefs.

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keras, the text says that the great multitude and the angels and the 24 elders and the four beast are before the throne of God and Jesus.

The throne of God is in heaven, as is His temple. And Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Do you not believe that Jesus is heaven ?

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Douggg said:

Why are you calling the palm trees "spiritual" ?

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You think the people waving palm branches are in heaven. It is a Spiritual place, therefore, everything in heaven is not physical.
Is that not correct?
You cannot mix Spiritual with Physical.

Douggg said:

Yes it does. Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

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You are playing with scripture, making it suit your beliefs. Blatantly adding to the Book of Revelation.
Heaven simply is not mentioned as where the vast multitude are.
After this.... is just what John looked at next, in the same place, as the 144,000 are selected out from the multitude of the Christian peoples.

Douggg said:

Do you not believe that Jesus is heaven ?

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As a Spiritual Being, Jesus is wherever He wants to be. I know credible people who say they have met Him and He says: I am with you always, until the end of time.
At His glorious Return to this physical world, He will come visibly and every eye will see Him.

keras said:

It is a Spiritual place, therefore, everything in heaven is not physical.

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Where are you coming up with something like that ?

keras said:

You are playing with scripture, making it suit your beliefs. Blatantly adding to the Book of Revelation.
Heaven simply is not mentioned as where the vast multitude are.
After this.... is just what John looked at next, in the same place, as the 144,000 are selected out from the multitude of the Christian peoples.

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keras, the throne of God and the temple of God are in heaven. Jesus is in Heaven. John saw the throne in heaven, in the text of Revelation 4.

keras said:

As a Spiritual Being, Jesus is wherever He wants to be. I know credible people who say they have met Him and He says: I am with you always, until the end of time.
At His glorious Return to this physical world, He will come visibly and every eye will see Him.

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keras, heaven is as physical as this world. Jesus can be seen. John described Jesus in Revelation 1:11-18. Jesus physically touched John with His hand in Revelation 1:17.

Douggg said:

Where are you coming up with something like that ?

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You seem to have a very childlike idea of heaven. It is not and cannot be physical place. It is outside of this physical dimension.

Douggg said:

keras, the throne of God and the temple of God are in heaven. Jesus is in Heaven. John saw the throne in heaven, in the text of Revelation 4.

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But the scene in Revelation 7:9 is not in heaven. You just assume that.
The simple truth is that God wants His people to be on earth, to be tested through all that is to come and those who prove themselves worthy will go with Jesus into the Millennium.

Douggg said:

keras, heaven is as physical as this world. Jesus can be seen. John described Jesus in Revelation 1:11-18. Jesus physically touched John with His hand in Revelation 1:17.

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Jesus was not the same; He walked thru walls and appeared at times after His resurrection. Then He Ascended to heaven.
Which shows the stupidity of those who imagine they can rapture to heaven too.

keras said:

You seem to have a very childlike idea of heaven. It is not and cannot be physical place. It is outside of this physical dimension.

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keras, John saw things in heaven. Our eyes are designed to see physical things.

keras said:

But the scene in Revelation 7:9 is not in heaven. You just assume that.
The simple truth is that God wants His people to be on earth, to be tested through all that is to come and those who prove themselves worthy will go with Jesus into the Millennium.

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keras, was the angel Gabriel here on earth when he meet with Daniel? Likewise, in our new eternal life bodies, we will be able to go back and forth between heaven and earth.

keras said:

Jesus was not the same; He walked thru walls and appeared at times after His resurrection. Then He Ascended to heaven.
Which shows the stupidity of those who imagine they can rapture to heaven too.

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So you think people must be outside to be raptured ? The raptured saints will pass through walls as well.