Evidence for macro-evolution

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Correct.

2 Peter 3:5a For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old,

2 Peter 3:4 - And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

2 Peter 3:5 (whole) - For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2 Peter 3:6 - Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Just giving some context.

 

[BCP1928]

And thus, a young earth with the appearance of age and history. Ipso facto, a YEC you are.



Which is a distinction without a difference. See the Omphalos Hypothesis aka Last Thursdayism.

Yeah, I don't see much point in the distinction either. But then, I don't see much point in striving so officiously to preserve the literal inerrancy of Genesis. Why is that so important for some Christians?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Yeah, I don't see much point in the distinction either. But then, I don't see much point in striving so officiously to preserve the literal inerrancy of Genesis. Why is that so important for some Christians?

It's a very American thing, from what I've seen.

 

[AV1611VET]

And thus, a young earth with the appearance of age and history.

Question: And why does it appear old?
Answer: Because it is old.

Ipso facto, a YEC you are.

Ipso nothing. You're not understanding it correctly.

Which is a distinction without a difference.

Says you.

See the Omphalos Hypothesis aka Last Thursdayism.

Omphalos Hypothesis says God created the Earth with scars.

I disagree.

Adam had no belly button, which is where Omphalos gets its name.

Last Thursdayism posits only one Thursday in existence.

I posit thousands and thousands of Thursdays have transpired.

 

[BCP1928]

It's a very American thing, from what I've seen.

And almost entirely Protestant.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Question: And why does it appear old?
Answer: Because it is old.

Which is what you claim and are incapable of showing to be accurate, either Biblically or scientifically. Your entire claim is extra-Biblical.

Ipso nothing. You're not understanding it correctly.

No, I understand it well enough. You are a YEC, but you've gussied it up with extra bits because you want your idea to be special.

Says you.

I do say so, very good.

Omphalos Hypothesis says God created the Earth with scars.

I disagree.

Adam had no belly button, which is where Omphalos gets its name.

Last Thursdayism posits only one Thursday in existence.

I post thousands and thousands of Thursdays have transpired.

Yes, we know that you say that. But all those 'thousands and thousands of Thursdays' would be fake under your idea of a 14+ billion year old Earth being made 6000 years ago.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah, I don't see much point in the distinction either.

I do.

And both Omphalos and Last Thursdayism can take a hike.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

And almost entirely Protestant.

It's a legacy of the Puritans. They want themselves to be seen as THE special church. To have THE special relationship with Christ that separates them from ALL other churches and denominations. To be THE ONE.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I do.

And both Omphalos and Last Thursdayism can take a hike.

So can your extra-Biblical idea of God creating a universe with embedded age and fake history.

 

[Estrid]

Yes, God created the Earth 6000 years ago. But he didn't create a young Earth 6000 years ago. According to AV he created an old Earth. So AV is not a "young Earth" creationist.

That's just succumbing to the grim and
unnatural vice of ewuivocation, with
distinction -sans -difference sauce.

Of course it simplifies things as there's no
to do the backflips and dishonest nonsense of
standard- issue yec, trying to explain away the
disproof of " ye".

But then, faked age is still fake.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's a very American thing, from what I've seen.

Then maybe you'd better look harder.

Omphalos: An Attempt to Untie the Geological Knot is a book by Philip Gosse, written in 1857 (two years before Darwin's On the Origin of Species), in which he argues that the fossil record is not evidence of evolution, but rather that it is an act of creation inevitably made so that the world would appear to be older than it is. The reasoning parallels the reasoning that Gosse chose to explain why Adam (who would have had no mother) had a navel: Though Adam would have had no need of a navel, God gave him one anyway to give him the appearance of having a human ancestry. Thus, the name of the book, Omphalos, which means 'navel' in Greek.

SOURCE

I highlighted in red two things I am on record here as denying more than once:

1. God did not create the earth with fossils in it.
2. God did not give Adam (or Eve) a belly button.

And the reason I said maybe you should look harder is:

Philip Henry Gosse FRS ... was an English naturalist ...

SOURCE

 

[AV1611VET]

And almost entirely Protestant.

What is? Omphalos? or Embedded Age?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Then maybe you'd better look harder.

Except that the ones largely making claims in line with Omphalos, and general extra-Biblical nonsense are Americans.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

What is? Omphalos? or Embedded Age?

Since it's me and him talking, I'll give my view on it being general extra-Biblical and non-scriptural interpretations of the Bible and its text in a literal and oft-times too literal manner.

But that's my view.

 

[Ophiolite]

Yes, God created the Earth 6000 years ago. But he didn't create a young Earth 6000 years ago. According to AV he created an old Earth. So AV is not a "young Earth" creationist.

Equivocation is often the only weapon one has left when the facts have deserted you.

 

[AV1611VET]

Which is what you claim ...

Then don't tell me I'm a YEC and expect me to believe you.

... and are incapable of showing to be accurate, either Biblically or scientifically. Your entire claim is extra-Biblical.

Either that, or it isn't.

2 Peter 3:5a For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old,

No, I understand it well enough.

Un-huh.

And I'm Genghis Khan.

You are a YEC,

And you are in error.

... but you've gussied it up with extra bits because you want your idea to be special.

I don't move decimal points around like they're skaters on ice, like science does.

I do say so, very good.

And you are in error.

Employing, as I said, the No True Scotsman principle to save face.

Yes, we know that you say that.

But do you know what it is I'm saying?

But all those 'thousands and thousands of Thursdays' would be fake under your idea of a 14+ billion year old Earth being made 6000 years ago.

1. I'm sure you meant 4.543 billion years. You're thinking of the age of the universe, not of the earth.
2. There is no such thing as "6000 years ago" in Last Thursdayism.

You have no clue what I believe.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Then don't tell me I'm a YEC and expect me to believe you.

Me thinks the good sir doth protest too much.

You are a YEC, you just want to pretend you're something extra special.

Either that, or it isn't.

2 Peter 3:5a For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old,

Why do you leave out the rest of that verse that does not say what you want to claim it says? Or does the Bible really mean so little to you?

Un-huh.

And I'm Genghis Khan.

You're a YEC.

And you are in error.

You're a YEC.

I don't move decimal points around like they're skaters on ice like science does.

Doesn't matter, you're still a YEC.

And you are in error.

Employing, as I said, the No True Scotsman principle to save face.

You're a YEC.

But do you know what it is I'm saying?

That you're a YEC who wants to pretend he's something special by putting an extra spin on his beliefs.

1. I'm sure you meant 4.543 billion years. You're thinking of the age of the universe, not of the earth.
2. There is no such thing as "6000 years ago" in Last Thursdayism.

You have no clue what I believe.

You believe in an extra-Bibilical and non-scriptural view of the Genesis account that neither a literal reading nor even the most heinous interpretation of the Bible says because you want to be seen as someone special because you believe in it.

You're a Young Earth Creationist who doesn't want to be seen as one even though you walk like one, quack like one and have the same feathers, bill and feet as one.

You're a YEC.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's a legacy of the Puritans. They want themselves to be seen as THE special church. To have THE special relationship with Christ that separates them from ALL other churches and denominations. To be THE ONE.

Go ahead, Warden.

Tell us all you know about who believes Embedded Age and where it came from, etc. and so on.

When I'd venture to say you never even heard of Embedded Age Creation in your life.

Now, all of a sudden, you're some kind of expert on it.

Even going so far as to equate it with other beliefs (to wit, Omphalos and Last Thursdayism).

Not to mention Young Earth Creationism.

The more you post, the more you look ... well ... wrong.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Go ahead, Warden.

Tell us all you know about who believes Embedded Age and where it came from, etc. and so on.

When I'd venture to say you never even heard of Embedded Age Creation in your life.

Now, all of a sudden, you're some kind of expert on it.

Even going so far as to equate it with other beliefs (to wit, Omphalos and Last Thursdayism).

Not to mention Young Earth Creationism.

The more you post, the more you look ... well ... wrong.

You're a YEC.

 

[AV1611VET]

So can your extra-Biblical idea of God creating a universe with embedded age and fake history.

Ya?

And what's the difference?

Now you sound like there is a difference between Omphalos/Last Thursdayism and Embedded Age Creation.

Since you said, "So can ..."

I submit you're confused and don't know what you're talking about.