The history of how Sunday worship came about.

[Gary K]

What is really amazing that clarifies Rom 10 is Paul's message to the Ephesians in Eph 2:
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

Gal 3:
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Did Abraham have the Torah? Of course not, he had faith. His salvation didn't come by works of Torah, it came only by faith. All our works are as filthy rags. God only wants us to have faith in Him. When we allow the power of the Holy Spirit to work in us the results will lead us into a righteous life full of good deeds. ‘'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'’ Matt25:45

Salvation comes not by what we do. It comes by what Jesus did!

I agree that we are saved by Jesus' sacrifice. But, you have created a problem for yourself and your beliefs in the very first verses you quoted.

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The word grace is translated from a Greek word with the following meaning:

[*StrongsGreek*]
05485
χάρις cháris, khar'-ece
from 5463;
graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):--acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).

So, it appears that you think the HS fights against the the Father and the Son and that all three are not one in belief as you quote that verse to "prove" that we don't need to keep God's law.

I had no idea you believed such a thing. Seems to me that when you walked away from the Adventist church you walked away from a central teaching of scripture.

 

[Bob S]

I agree that we are saved by Jesus' sacrifice. But, you have created a problem for yourself and your beliefs in the very first verses you quoted.

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The word grace is translated from a Greek word with the following meaning:

[*StrongsGreek*]
05485
χάρις cháris, khar'-ece
from 5463;
graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):--acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).

So, it appears that you think the HS fights against the the Father and the Son and that all three are not one in belief as you quote that verse to "prove" that we don't need to keep God's law.

I had no idea you believed such a thing. Seems to me that when you walked away from the Adventist church you walked away from a central teaching of scripture.

So, it really appears your logic is illogical. Paul, through the gift of the Holy Spirit, claimed we are saved by God's grace and who are you to deny it?

Had the translation been wrong I am sure the learned men of the Bible would have changed it along the way. Do you have some credentials we need to discover? Seems you have a problem with many of them.

 

[Gary K]

So, it really appears your logic is illogical. Paul, through the gift of the Holy Spirit, claimed we are saved by God's grace and who are you to deny it?

Had the translation been wrong I am sure the learned men of the Bible would have changed it along the way. Do you have some credentials we need to discover? Seems you have a problem with many of them.

Quote me where I denied it. It's another mischaracterization of what I said.

 

[Cribstyl]

Keep on reading and tell us what else it says

You should post your take from Rom 10 to prove your point.

 

[Cribstyl]

Romans 10: 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Amazing how you can take short passage and ignore the following verses and make it say something the following verses refute.

Obviously, you don't understand that Paul is saying here that Salvation is to whoever who confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord. How am I refuted???
Rewind....... Your argument was that Paul was a Pharisee and keeper of God's law. I posted what he preached and you're disputing as if keeping the law is required for salvation.

 

[Gary K]

Obviously, you dont understand that Paul is saying Salvation is to whoever confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. How am I refuted???

You claim there is a massive difference between you and the Jews. You don't need to keep the Sabbath and will be saved while ignoring it.

 

[Cribstyl]

SB: So reading the scriptures, hearing God’s Word, preaching God’s Word, reasoning with the scriptures and prayer is not worship- I will have to respectfully disagree. The Lord tells us to keep His ways on the Sabbath- sounds exactly what Jesus and the apostles did every Sabbath so I will have to agree to disagree with your interpretation.

If these things were done every day, and not just on Sabbath, you have some explaining to do.

SB
Are we to ignore God;s Word to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy Exo 20:8

Not commanded to Christians

SB Jesus said to live by every Word Mat 4:4 so I will keep this the way God stated
Amen, we are not to work on the Sabbath because it is God’s holy day Isa 58:13 that’s He made holy for man Exo 20:8 working is not a way to honor God or keep His Sabbath day holy.


Deut 16:8 is not helping your case. I never said we are not to work on the Sabbath- because it is God’s holy day that we are commanded to keep holy as well. Exo 20:8

Six days you shall eat unleavened bread, and on the seventh day there shall be a sacred assembly to the LORD your God. You shall do no work on it.

This is what the Sabbath is about thus saith the Lord.

Isa 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,

The day is to be dedicated to God which is why we must rest from our work and labors and keep the Sabbath day holy. Does God want us lazy or resting in Him through His Word, prayer church and spending sanctified time with Him as we can’t sanctify ourselves Eze 20:12

If you believe the Sabbath is just about a day off and not about God you are missing the real blessing of His holy Sabbath day.

Eze 22:26 Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the chat and God bless.

Show us where Christians are commanded to keep the Sabbath and we should agree,

 

[Cribstyl]

You claim there is a massive difference between you and the Jews. You don't need to keep the Sabbath and will be saved while ignoring it.

Absolutely true.
Why? God is not silent about what He requires from man. Sabbath is a sign of the Mosaic covenant

 

[contratodo]

The day is to be dedicated to God which is why we must rest from our work and labors and keep the Sabbath day holy.

To keep it holy, in other words, sanctify it.

Please don't miss the point of Nehemiah 13:15-22,
it specifically says that Nehemiah sanctified the Sabbath by placing Levites (guys from the temple)
at the gates all day to make sure no business was done.

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
Mark 2:27

Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me;
the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot endure,
it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates:
they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Learn to do well; seek justice, relive the oppressed,
vindicate the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isaiah 1:13-14,17

 

[SabbathBlessings]

To keep it holy, in other words, sanctify it.

Please don't miss the point of Nehemiah 13:15-22,
it specifically says that Nehemiah sanctified the Sabbath by placing Levites (guys from the temple)
at the gates all day to make sure no business was done.

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
Mark 2:27

Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me;
the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot endure,
it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates:
they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Learn to do well; seek justice, relive the oppressed,
vindicate the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isaiah 1:13-14,17

Doing business on the Sabbath would not be an example of how to keep the Sabbath day holy.

The Isaiah quote needs to be in context- it's about those who were not following God, but keeping sacrifices as a way to benefit them, not sincere worship, much like prosperity churches.

 

[contratodo]

The Isaiah quote needs to be in context- it's about those who were not following God, but keeping sacrifices as a way to benefit them, not sincere worship, much like prosperity churches.

But notice that God did not say, learn how to assemble or keep sacrifices correctly,
He said seek justice relive the oppressed vindicate the fatherless and plead for the widow.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

But notice that God did not say, learn how to assemble or keep sacrifices correctly,
He said seek justice relive the oppressed vindicate the fatherless and plead for the widow.

Isaiah 1:10
Hear the word of the Lord,
You rulers of Sodom;
Give ear to the law of our God,
You people of Gomorrah:

When you [g]spread out your hands,
I will hide My eyes from you;
Even though you make many prayers,
I will not hear.
Your hands are full of [h]blood.
16 “Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes.
Cease to do evil,
17 Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Rebuke [i]the oppressor;
[j]Defend the fatherless,
Plead for the widow.

What does God say when we turn from His law...
Pro 28:9 One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination.

His people were not obeying Him which is why He didn't want their sacrifices, if we turn from His law, He says He won't even hear our prayers. These scriptures are not a good case to try to make God does not want us to obey Him the way He asks. He doesn't want some obedience, we need to submit completely to His will. Obeying some things as a way for personal gain is not submitting to His will.

 

[contratodo]

These scriptures are not a good case to try to make God does not want us to obey Him the way He asks

But Nehemiah 13:15-22 is a good case to show that the way God wants us to sanctify the Sabbath is by not working.
As we have seen in the majority of scripture about the Sabbath, what God asks is to refrain from labor.
Also in Isaiah 1:10-17 we see that the main thing God wants is not sacrifice or assembly, but a loving heart towards others.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

But Nehemiah 13:15-22 is a good case to show that the way God wants us to sanctify the Sabbath is by not working.
As we have seen in the majority of scripture about the Sabbath, what God asks is to refrain from labor.
Also in Isaiah 1:10-17 we see that the main thing God wants is not sacrifice or assembly, but a loving heart towards others.

You're using Isaiah 1:10-17 out of context. Isaiah is addressing a disobedient nation.

The commandment says to keep the Sabbath day holy. Exo 20:8 We don't work, because that is not holy. Scripture gives us lots of examples of how to do that. Lev 23:3, Isa 58:13, Luke 4:16, Acts 13:42-44 Acts 18:4 Mark 3:4 Acts 16:13

God wants us to spend holy time with Him on His holy Sabbath day and resting from our labors so we can keep the Sabbath day holy by doing His ways Isa 58:13. He gives us six days to do all our work and labors Exo 20:9 and only asks one day dedicated to Him and scriptures show lots of examples of keeping the Sabbath - prayer, church ,reading God's Word, hearing God's Word reasoning with the scriptures doing well on the Sabbath according to scripture. God wants to spend time with us, that is what the Sabbath is about holy communion with our Savior. I prefer to use scripture as my example but I'm okay agreeing to disagree. Need to run.

Happy Sabbath all!

 

[HIM]

But Nehemiah 13:15-22 is a good case to show that the way God wants us to sanctify the Sabbath is by not working.
As we have seen in the majority of scripture about the Sabbath, what God asks is to refrain from labor.
Also in Isaiah 1:10-17 we see that the main thing God wants is not sacrifice or assembly, but a loving heart towards others.

The issue in Isaiah is not the sacrifices, it is the sin laden hard hearted people continuingly sacrificing with no real conversion.

Happy Sabbath @SabbathBlessings!
Where two are gathered together there He is in our midst!

 

[trophy33]

You're using Isaiah 1:10-17 out of context. Isaiah is addressing a disobedient nation.

The commandment says to keep the Sabbath day holy. Exo 20:8... God wants us to spend holy time with Him on His holy Sabbath...

You are using Exodus and basically everything out of context. The Mosaic Law was given to people of Israel which wandered from Egypt to Palestine, for the period till Christ.

Therefore, there is no "us" in the context of the Mosaic Law and Sabbath.

 

[Gary K]

Absolutely true.
Why? God is not silent about what He requires from man. Sabbath is a sign of the Mosaic covenant

What will you do when you come before God on judgment day and find out you've been wrong all the time and people have tried their best to help you understand the truth?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The issue in Isaiah is not the sacrifices, it is the sin laden hard hearted people continuingly sacrificing with no real conversion.

Happy Sabbath @SabbathBlessings!
Where two are gathered together there He is in our midst!

Happy Sabbath Him!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You are using Exodus and basically everything out of context. The Mosaic Law was given to people of Israel which wandered from Egypt to Palestine, for the period till Christ.

Therefore, there is no "us" in the context of the Mosaic Law and Sabbath.

Obviously not just for the Mosaic people, unless one thinks only the Jews will be saved. We are told in His covenant there is no Jew or Gentile just those in Christ grafted in through faith. Gal 3:26-28

Isaiah 56:1

Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

 

[trophy33]

Obviously not just for the Mosaic people, unless one thinks only the Jews will be saved. We are told in His covenant there is no Jew or Gentile just those in Christ grafted in through faith. Gal 3:26-28

Isaiah 56:1

Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Christians keep no literal new moons and no literal Sabbaths.

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Col 2:16-23


So, Isaiah 56 is either not literal or is just about the Mosaic Law era, till Christ.