Can a skeptic on the fence have a personal encounter with God?

[AbbaLove]

Was there a more insightful post than that of Righterzpen's? Yet the OP never replied or even thanked him.

It's possible the OP is putting the onus (blame) on God more than on his own freewill to use a "fence" as a feeble excuse. He's going to just sit there waiting for God to show Himself. Maybe he thinks his "fence" is as much the fault of God as his own freewill doing.

Maybe, God will hit him with a bolt of Lighting that puts him in the hospital to recover. His nurse happens to be a born again Christian that shares the Love of God everyday. One day he hears a still small voice speak 7 Words, "Was My Lightning The Proof You Needed"

My conviction of what the Bible says is that: before the foundation of the world, the members of the Godhead decided what the salvation plan would be and who Christ would atone for. And by God's omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence; He caused by His own will; the redemption of those individuals to happen. He didn't choose them out of any thing they did or any good they possessed. He chose them out of HIs goodness for reasons embodied in His own nature that can only be described to us as self-sacrificial love.

So yes, due to sin everyone starts as either "a skeptic on the fence" to one who has fallen off the cliff into the cess pit.

What would that encounter look like? It would be an awakening where God "cuts the lights on" and sinner recognizes his state of death. He recognizes his worthiness of God's wrath and cries for mercy.

The personal relationship with God would look like: "How do I obey You?"

No, you can't "elicit" or "prompt" anything of your own power from God. Matter of fact, you would only become genuinely interested in knowing the truth if God sends His Spirit to bring you to spiritual life. And the thing(s) you would notice of that is both overwhelming joy and profound terror. And the outcropping of that awakening is the desire to repent of your sin.

As time passes and you grapple with the state of being spiritually awake; you will gain assurance by seeing your life change. You will become honest and truthful to God, yourself and other people. You will want to walk the steps God places in front of you. And that path will not be an easy road to walk. But you walk it because you feel a certain compulsion of conscience to do so.

The internal compulsion to walk the road isn't something that can be easily explained. It just "is". It comes to be recognized by self as a part of your reality and is something that you can't and don't want to walk away from; though it frustrates you at times. The presence of the One who both guides and pushes you along the path will be a part of the existence of your being who ever you're around, what ever you do, where ever you go for the rest of your life. That Presence is both comforting and terrifying; yet as "perfect love casts out fear" the terror will subside. You'll pray for a lot of help and wisdom along the way.

When the terror subsides and you come to walk in peaceful obedience; you will realize you are not deceiving yourself into "believing you're in a personal relationship." Because when the awakening comes; it's far to profound to ignore.

If what you experienced you can eventually "fall away from". That would be evidence that you were never awakened in the first place.

And yes, you will recognize God's presence "beyond a reasonable doubt" though it will not be "materially obvious". Your circumstances may not change; but you will.

Yes, God can reveal Himself to you; a skeptic on the fence in a powerful and life changing way.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Was there a more insightful post than that of Righterzpen's? Yet the OP never replied or even thanked him.

It's possible the OP is putting the onus (blame) on God more than on his own freewill to use a "fence" as a feeble excuse. He's going to just sit there waiting for God to show Himself. Maybe he thinks his "fence" is as much the fault of God as his own freewill doing.

Maybe, God will hit him with a bolt of Lighting that puts him in the hospital to recover. His nurse happens to be a born again Christian that shares the Love of God everyday. One day he hears a still small voice speak 7 Words, "Was My Lightning The Proof You Needed"

Yeah, I noticed the OP never replied to my post either and expended an awful lot of energy arguing with other people. LOL. A "wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign" is a truth applicable to far more than just the first century.

Salvation isn't a "flashy experience" that causes an enthusiastic (yet shallow) change of the will. "God You've convinced me. Gee I guess You are smart!" (God resists the proud - James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5) No, to the contrary I would also conclude that for all who are genuinely redeemed; there will always be some component of fear involved.

And "I'm a skeptic waiting for You to convince me...." And though God is certainly capable of intellectually convincing anyone; that doesn't necessarily equate to redemption. Anyone can be thoroughly intellectually convinced; and / or thoroughly convinced by some experience perceived as "supernatural"; but where the rubber meets the road is "Does one obey?"

Where the moral decisions come in: does one examine their own life in prayer and repentance to overcome sin?

Because their marriage is failing; or do they just run off to have an affair?
Because it's "easier" to scapegoat the child on account of the jealous spouse's need for someone to blame?
Because their own dysfunctional narcissistic justifications have caused their kids to hate them?
Because they are in a literal combat zone and it's more convenient to murder the innocent than worry about who the real enemy is?
Because it's more convenient to be drunk or high than to face one's own fears?

That's the "level" of evidence that separates the sheep from the goats in the end. That which confronts the scariest verse in the whole Bible: But Lord did we not..... And I will say to them: "Be gone from Me you workers of iniquity. I never knew you."

 

[SkepticOnTheFence]

I gave you a 1o-day program to accomplish just that. Following those steps might be the most important decision you've ever made.
Why haven't you accepted my testable challenge?

Because of lack of time. A 10-day challenge like that should be performed responsibly and with full dedication. Just like you would with, say, a 10-day Vipassana retreat (more info on those here: Vipassana Meditation). Unless you believe the challenge can be harmonized with a busy schedule.

In the meantime, I'm curious:

• What is the basis for this 10-day challenge? Why the number 10? Did you come up with this challenge or did you take it from someone else?
• How many people do you know who have taken up this challenge? Are their post-challenge testimonies publicly available somewhere?

 

[SkepticOnTheFence]

I provided you with a testable 10-day plan designed to overcome your misgivings and set you up for a SELF-AUTHENTICATING experience of God's Spirit and remove your concern about wishful thinking, and you refuse the experiment.

By self-authenticating do you mean something like what William Lane Craig refers to as "properly basic belief" in God via the inner witness of the Holy Spirit? Something along the lines of Reformed Epistemology?

I even offered you 2 of my personal experiences of divine guidance that I'm sure even you can't dismiss as mere coincidence. Why do you refuse my challenge?

To be honest, I don't have any way to investigate your personal experiences, so there is an unbridgeable epistemic barrier from my perspective that doesn't allow me to make further progress with these sorts of anecdotes, which by the way are not the first ones I have heard. Personally, I would say your second story seems more impressive to me than the first one; it seems to fit in the category of "parapsychology", "psychic abilities", or using Christian terminology, a case of the charismatic gift of "word of knowledge". I know that there are people out there, yourself included, who claim these sorts of experiences have happened to them. Are these stories, as people describe them at face value, real? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I'm an agnostic regarding this possibility.

 

[SkepticOnTheFence]

Was there a more insightful post than that of Righterzpen's? Yet the OP never replied or even thanked him.

That post reeked of Reformed Calvinism right from the get-go, so I kind of dismissed it entirely for that reason.

It's possible the OP is putting the onus (blame) on God more than on his own freewill to use a "fence" as a feeble excuse. He's going to just sit there waiting for God to show Himself. Maybe he thinks his "fence" is as much the fault of God as his own freewill doing.

Maybe, God will hit him with a bolt of Lighting that puts him in the hospital to recover. His nurse happens to be a born again Christian that shares the Love of God everyday. One day he hears a still small voice speak 7 Words, "Was My Lightning The Proof You Needed"

I'm actually interested in accepting the 10-day challenge offered by @Berserk, as long as I manage to find the right conditions to carry it out.

 

[SamInNi]

Our skeptical friend will run into endless dead ends unless he understands the Gospel message and God then draws him to Christ.

 

[Berserk]

I'm actually interested in accepting the 10-day challenge offered by @Berserk, as long as I manage to find the right conditions to carry it out.

When I was a young college student, I put essentially the same challenge to a fellow student, adding that if he could convince me that he embraced the challenge and Jesus did not make Himself real, I'd give up my faith! Well. he later claimed to have embraced tje challenge and nothing happened. But he was horrified that I was so upset by this that I really felt obliged to abandon my faith and soon confessed that he had made only a superficial effort and had not really come close to meeting the conditions. Of course, I quickly realized that I was wrong to take that approach because it placed me at the center of my witness.
Bible scholars would agree that the 2 divine invitations in my challenge are 2 of the most important invitation verses in Scripture. I created this 10-day plan in careful recognition of how long it takes to get in the right meditative self-reflective state. the most crucial step is being honest with yourself about what you would be wiling to do with your life if Jesus did make Himself real to you. As mentioned, you need to get clear that you would surrender your life in service to Him, if He did.

Two online skeptics have converted through or inspite of my testimonial anecdotes. One just PMd me that he had decided to become a Christian and join a church, but offered no other details for his conversion. The other Vince (an author) was a militant atheist who tried to refute any case offered in defense of Christianity on a variety of skeptical websites. So his sudden conversion really shocked me. He had been playing volleyball with some Christian guys, who invited them to their church. Out of friendship Vince decided to go. In that church Jesus immediately made Himself real to Vince in a self-authenticating way and is now a radiant Christian. He now respects my apologetic case, but only because HIs experience transformed the framework of presuppositions he brought to the spiritual quest. I wept for joy when I later stumbled upon his anti-Christian arguments on another anti-Christian website, knowing He was now "a new creation in Christ Jesus," to quote Paul.

 

[SkepticOnTheFence]

The other Vince (an author) was a militant atheist who tried to refute any case offered in defense of Christianity on a variety of skeptical websites. So his sudden conversion really shocked me. He had been playing volleyball with some Christian guys, who invited them to their church. Out of friendship Vince decided to go. In that church Jesus immediately made Himself real to Vince in a self-authenticating way and is now a radiant Christian. He now respects my apologetic case, but only because HIs experience transformed the framework of presuppositions he brought to the spiritual quest. I wept for joy when I later stumbled upon his anti-Christian arguments on another anti-Christian website, knowing He was now "a new creation in Christ Jesus," to quote Paul.

Is Vince's testimony published somewhere?

 

[Berserk]

Is Vince's testimony published somewhere?

The website "Afterlife-Knowledge.com" where I interacted with Vince used to have a chatroom, but the owner (Bruce Moen) died in 2017; so the chatroom was abolished and I lost touch with Vince. That anti-Christian site is where Vince posted the now lost testimony to which I'm referring.

 

[Divide]

How can I seek?

James 4::2-3
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.../KJV

Matthew 7:7-8
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.../KJV

How do I seek, you ask? It's actually very simple. He knew it would have to be for us, lol. The best two ways to begin seeking God is, (1) through the Bible. Start reading it every day. The Bible is God's letter to you with instructions how to find Him. What He is like. The kind of person that Jesus was (Is) and what He taught. Forget everything that you have heard in church and open the book and see for yourself! God will reveal Himself to you through your reading His Words. (That's the short version).

Skeptic you say. But you have thought, what if it is true? What if He is real? It is true but if it is true then would you want to stand before Him one day and have Him ask you, did you read my letter to you in the Bible? Whatwill your answer be? Lord those people all said that it was mistranslated and you can't trust it and all that stuff so I didn't...
Jesus: You didn't even read it once?

I had those thoughts before and so now I read it because I don't want to stand there and have to admit, I didn't read like you told me to!

So go find out for yourself. It will be impossible to understand it the first few times you read it. But it gets easier, because the Lord rewards your efforts with revelation. You will be reading and a verse will jump up at you and talk to you. You will be given understanding by a similarity in your own life. Reading the Bible is like looking in a mirror. Reading His word trying to understand who He is IS seeking Him. He says in His book, Seek and you will find. Those are His words! Which brings us to the 2nd part of the best way...

Pray to God and Ask Him! Be honest and speak from the heart to our God. Not only did He promise seek and you will find, but He said, Ask and it shall be opened to you! So ask Him! He will open the scriptures to you if you ask for Him too. That is the Holy Spirits job, to lead us into all truth. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you as real because you have doubts.

Pray before you read scripture for help understanding and read every day. If you read average 3 chapters a day, you can read the entire Bible cover to cover in 1 year. But don't just skim through it. Read it again, grasp the message. Meditate on it and how it may apply to your life...

If you did that for 6 months every day, you best watch out for a visitation, Lol! Other people wait 28 years! So I can't tell you exactly how or when God will reveal Himself to you as true because that is up to Him! He deals differently with different people. Welcome to the Twilight Zone!

 

[Divide]

You need to hear a bunch of Testimonies. Youtube has a lot and they are everywhere to be found. I have many Testimonies, myself. The Lord has done some very extraordinary things for me.

Does this forum have a Testimony forum/section? I'll look and if it does I'll post a few of mine for you. I'm not selling CD's, I never wrote a book and I don't ask for donations! Lol. So why lie? No reason to lie. The truth must be spoken and shared. I watch all those testimonies on youtube and It's a Miracle, Angel Miracles and even Sid Roth has had some good testimonies on his show. Everybody isn't lying, impossible! You can tell by body language and tones if they are telling the truth.

 

[SkepticOnTheFence]

Skeptic you say. But you have thought, what if it is true? What if He is real? It is true but if it is true then would you want to stand before Him one day and have Him ask you, did you read my letter to you in the Bible? Whatwill your answer be? Lord those people all said that it was mistranslated and you can't trust it and all that stuff so I didn't...
Jesus: You didn't even read it once?

I already read the entire Bible once.

Reading His word trying to understand who He is IS seeking Him.

Well, I already read the Bible once, and it didn't seem like I was very much able to "find" God by doing so, so ...

If you did that for 6 months every day, you best watch out for a visitation, Lol! Other people wait 28 years! So I can't tell you exactly how or when God will reveal Himself to you as true because that is up to Him! He deals differently with different people. Welcome to the Twilight Zone!

So basically you are proposing a 6-month up to 28-year challenge? That sounds terribly impractical. I would rather go with @Berserk's 10-day challenge, which sounds way more manageable (check out the previous posts so you know what I'm talking about).

You need to hear a bunch of Testimonies. Youtube has a lot and they are everywhere to be found. I have many Testimonies, myself. The Lord has done some very extraordinary things for me.

I've already heard hundreds. I'm well aware that people claim all sorts of extraordinary things.

 

[Berserk]

There is no substitute for direct self-authenticating experience of the divine! Testimonies can at best only constructively inspire interest and a spiritual quest. Skeptic's advisors here lack an empathy that tunes in to where Skeptic is coming from.

 

[Divide]

I already read the Bible once, and it didn't seem like I was very much able to "find" God by doing so, so ...

Well I don't know the condition of your heart or what sin is in your life or what the Lord is trying to teach you...?? All I really can do is to tell you my own personal experiences.

The Lord does say seek Me until you find me. And He says if you seek Him you Will find Him, so apparently He wants you to search diligently for Him because He is not an easy catch. Some people get response from Him instantly, others have to wait a period of time.

It's good that you read the bible cover to cover that one time. I have read it CtC 3 times now. Remember in old testament, Daniel was fasting and praying and on the 21st day of Daniels fast, an Angel showed up and told Him many things? What do you suppose would have happened if Daniel had ended his fast after 19 days? Would the Angel have still showed up? I don't know. I don't know why you seem to be having trouble finding God either?

Have you ever humbled yourself before God? (much study showed that to me to be code talk for 'Fasting') Fasting and denying ourselves is how we humble ourselves before God. Ok so you read it once. Do you have a teachable spirit? Did you read it with the intent to prove or disprove a doctrine of man? If so, no wonder you did not understand it.

You didn't mention praying at all. Do you pray to God and ask Him the questions on your doubts? Why not? Why ask men these things when you can ask God?

The Lord looks on the inside. A broken and contrite heart. That is a teachable spirit. You should pray to Jesus like He is standing right in front of you. Tell Him that you want to believe in Him and learn to trust Him. That you want to build a resume of trust between you and Him. But you need help beleiving...and bug Him about it, a lot.

He doesn't have to manifest in person so that you can see Him to make you believe that He is real. He has many ways, lol. When He reveals Himself one teensy bit to you it will be obvious that it is no one else but Jesus. He always will give you confirmation of what happened that it had to be Him. Always.

Do you trust the Lord? How much have you prayed to Him?

 

[Divide]

The scriptures do say that the Lord said, it is ok to test Him by Tithing and no other way. (I have done this!) The Lord rewards obedience. Helping the poor and needy is big in Jesus's book. He was always feeding many people. So next payday, figure 10% of the gross (First Fruits!) for your tithing and then go give that money away to the homeless people on the street that need it.

Some people don't want to help them cuz, they'd prolly spend it on alcohol...Yeah? Well they still human and need to eat too, just like you and maybe this is coming to him when he is hungry, so you give to them with a good heart anyway? Besides, it's not about the money. It's about being willing to obey God.

I tested God with Tithing before. It was easy for me even being married because I was self employed with my own company and collected cash sometimes and could cash checks before going back home to the office where my right hand and secretary was so she never even knew what her left hand was doing about that! (I got away with it!) But I digress. Scriptures says when you Tithe, tha the windows of Heaven will open unto you and pour out blessings upon you, something like that. And I have to say that, I can not say that it is not true. It felt as if blessings were poured upon us. Many times it was with new work coming in, easy and highly profitable. There is slow season every year and money was tight. But I did not neglect the Tithing and every time I tithed, I got some work! The church I was Tithing to then had wooden lockbox drop boxes all over the church and near the front door. SO I'd drop by on my way home and pay. SOmetimes I wouldn't even be out of the parking lot before my phone would ring with more work! I got busy during the slow season! Try this and you will see! I did. It is true. The Lord is true. Go help some people who are in need!

You'll see God move fast, Lol!

 

[PSYCHE69]

Theres no one methodology to get the Lord to come. Or one size fits all ideal. I mean why should there be? Hes a personage. Its ultimately a heart matter. And about being attentive to your surroundings.

So look for the mundane. First. It says if we can be trusted with litte he will give more. It also says. If we dont value or use our one gift. It will be plucked and given to someone else.

Keep meditating on it. Eat, breathe and sleep it. The bible, prayer and worship.

 

[SkepticOnTheFence]

It's good that you read the bible cover to cover that one time. I have read it CtC 3 times now. Remember in old testament, Daniel was fasting and praying and on the 21st day of Daniels fast, an Angel showed up and told Him many things? What do you suppose would have happened if Daniel had ended his fast after 19 days? Would the Angel have still showed up? I don't know. I don't know why you seem to be having trouble finding God either?

So are you suggesting that I should go for a 21-day fast? Are you proposing this as a challenge?

Have you ever humbled yourself before God? (much study showed that to me to be code talk for 'Fasting') Fasting and denying ourselves is how we humble ourselves before God.

No, I haven't fasted for religious purposes yet. Are you suggesting I should do it? For 21 days? Sounds like a challenging amount of time.

@Berserk, what are your thoughts on fasting? Should I give it a shot? Would I gain anything by doing it?

Ok so you read it once. Do you have a teachable spirit?

I don't know what you mean by having a "teachable spirit". If you mean just "teachable", then sure, I'm teachable. No problem studying or learning new stuff.

Did you read it with the intent to prove or disprove a doctrine of man?

No, I didn't read the Bible with that purpose.

If so, no wonder you did not understand it.

What part did I supposedly not understand?

You didn't mention praying at all. Do you pray to God and ask Him the questions on your doubts?

If you mean praying regularly, then no, I don't pray regularly at all. I have prayed in the past a few times to see if I get something out of it, but that's about it. I'm not a Christian nor adherent to any other religion. I don't claim to have any sort of "personal relationship" with nor pray regularly to any God or gods.

Why not?

Because I don't believe that God exists, and I lack any sort of "personal relationship" with such an entity. So, in the absence any sort of self-evident two-way interaction, praying for me is like talking to the air.

Why ask men these things when you can ask God?

Because if God does exist, he is extremely good at playing hide & seek and remaining silent. Besides, there are no "God Forums" when you can post threads and receive answers from God in a matter of minutes.
In short: humans respond; God likes to remain hidden (if He exists).

Do you trust the Lord?

Well, I don't even believe that he exists, so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to trust him. If you are to trust someone, you first need to believe that that someone exist, right?

How much have you prayed to Him?

Not much.

The scriptures do say that the Lord said, it is ok to test Him by Tithing and no other way. (I have done this!) The Lord rewards obedience. Helping the poor and needy is big in Jesus's book. He was always feeding many people. So next payday, figure 10% of the gross (First Fruits!) for your tithing and then go give that money away to the homeless people on the street that need it.

Tithing is a controversial Old Testament commandment, just like circumcision, keeping the sabbath, keeping new moons, feasts and holy convocations and many other OT laws. I'm well aware of the theological debates between different denominations concerning the application of Old Testament laws to the New Testament church. You won't convince me here that Tithing still applies to Christians, just like you won't convince me here that I need to keep the Sabbath. I honestly prefer not to go down this route.

 

[Divide]

Because I don't believe that God exists, and I lack any sort of "personal relationship" with such an entity. So, in the absence any sort of self-evident two-way interaction, praying for me is like talking to the air.

Well there you go then. No wonder He doesn't reveal Himself to you in any way or let you understand the scriptures. You almost sound like you don't want it it to be true. You are comfortable sitting on the fence.

If you mean praying regularly, then no, I don't pray regularly at all. I have prayed in the past a few times to see if I get something out of it, but that's about it. I'm not a Christian nor adherent to any other religion. I don't claim to have any sort of "personal relationship" with nor pray regularly to any God or gods.

Well no wonder He hasn't came and manifested for you and answered all your questions, you haven't even invited Him over to talk to you or asked Him to talk to you. It i is written, you have not because you ask not...

If you half heartedly ask Him to talk to you He might not think that you are even serious. But if you are seeking Him with your whole heart then He will not refuse you.

You see, God is not there to serve you and jump through your hoops. We humans were created to serve God. But if you come to Him in prayer with a repentant heart and ask forgiveness for your sins and ask for Him to be the Lord of your life. Then continue to pray and read the scriptures and seek Him and you will be accepted because He loves you but everything is about....if this then that. Like, if my people will humble themselves and turn from their sin then I will heal them and their land. First we do something, then God responds. Then we grow a wee bit and do something else and God responds more. SO it's sort of procedural. God wont force anything on you unless you ask for it. God has already done you a good turn. He died on the cross so that you can be forgiven. So the ball is in your court now. First thing you make Him your Lord and ask forgiveness and stop sinning. Unplug from the world. Live the Lord. Breath the Lord. Day & night.

You can't really expect that the Lord will give you a supernatural sign so you can believe. That is not how it works. Seeing isnt believing. Believing is seeing.

Because if God does exist, he is extremely good at playing hide & seek and remaining silent. Besides, there are no "God Forums" when you can post threads and receive answers from God in a matter of minutes.
In short: humans respond; God likes to remain hidden (if He exists).

Proverbs 25:2
2. It is God’s privilege to conceal things and the king’s privilege to discover them.../NLT

So you are correct about this you say. God is good at it too! He devises such complex quiz's for us in this class, doesn't He?! Anyway, there is better than a God forum with you all the time when you belong to the Kingdom of God. It is your spirit and your conscience. Scripture says, the Holy Spirit bears witness (talks to) our spirit. So the spirit that you have inside of you is in direct contact with God so your spirit always knows the right thing to do in any situation. We do not get to listen to their conversations, but I think that our spirit can talk to us. He is one of the voices inside our head. He talks to us all day long if we will listen. If we do not listen and begin thinking with our carnal mind (the other voice in your head) and make our choices from our carnal mind, then that is turning our back to the spirit and living for the flesh. Therein lies the war.

We were born into a spiritual war (that we didn't start!) behind enemy lines and they are slowly closing in on our position. We must have had a hard llanding because I woke up not knowing who I was or what is my mission here. I find that I am equipped with a Field Manual in my pack (A Bible!) and there is some sort of radio (Prayer) and only a little bit of instruction on it's use in the Field Manual. So I played with the radio a lot to get familiar with it's operation and one day I tuned in just right and there was an internal voice speaking to me, And I recognized it! Talk about a leap of faith!

I'm tired. We can talk some more tomorrow.

 

[Divide]

Tithing is a controversial Old Testament commandment, just like circumcision, keeping the sabbath, keeping new moons, feasts and holy convocations and many other OT laws. I'm well aware of the theological debates between different denominations concerning the application of Old Testament laws to the New Testament church. You won't convince me here that Tithing still applies to Christians, just like you won't convince me here that I need to keep the Sabbath. I honestly prefer not to go down this route.

You missed my point. Old Testament Tithing was done away with now. There is no 10% Tithe. Jesus came and paid the required price and He was given everything so it is His now. It is 100% now instead of 10%. You are not required to do a 10% tithe or to keep the Sabbath. I don't keep the sabbath necessarily. Every day is the sabbath for me, I'm retired. I don't have to be at worldly work anymore. My point was that the New Testament says that it is ok to test God with Tithing to see if He does not open the floodgates of blessings upon you. So having wife and kids I sought two things. To test God on it and give myself yet a smidge more proof of God is real and some blessings, we needed more money. And He did give it to us. Praise the Lord for that! You say you want some proof, so I told you my story to suggest that you Tithe even at a 10% level and God will bless you for it, for one more avenue of a way to search for God.

I'll tell you one thing, be careful what you ask for and understand what and why you ask for it. Because He just might give it to you...and you not like the package it comes in.
I asked for more faith. I got dumped on with so much tribulation and problems! Nothing went right, it was chaos. I came out of it with more faith because a small gentle miracle at the end of it fixed everything! It was...supernatural.

Another time I prayed and aske dthe Lord to teach me how to love others the same way that He loves us. Seemed like a good prayer! Then a couple days later the most obnoxious personality in the neighbrohood wanted to be my friend and was all over me with his brand of obnoxious kindness that about drove me insane, lol!

 

[Divide]

When I conclude that I was satisfied with my Tithing test of God, I had the lesson that, no matter how tight money is and I can't "afford" to tithe feelings come, the truth stands man, I can't afford not to Tithe! That is what I learned.