The reason why Job had to suffer.

[Dan Bert]

He meant He showed us how to overcome the world stop complaining, whining and begging.

Job 38:3 - Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

Revelation says one gets the White Stone, The New Name and the Hidden Manna only if we overcome the world.

In John we are told that the blood of Jesus Christ will cleanse all men of the sins (transgression) ONLY if the walk in the light as He is in the light.

The promises are only given if we fulfill the conditions they are predicted on . That is what Covenant means.

bert12

what did Jesus mean when HE said in this world you will have trouble but take heart for I have overcome the world?

 

[Dan Bert]

I know more about the Gospel of perfection than anyone here on this board. It took many years of asking and seeking and knocking. It don't come easy. God has to prepare both the heart and the mind first. I know a lot about the ancients laws that allowed Enoch and the inhabitants of Zion to be translated and be taken into heaven, before the flood and about Salem under Melchizedek (Shem) after the flood.

bert12

You do not know the Gospel of the Grace of GOD

 

[miknik5]

Then you will have no problem when darkness comes

 

[miknik5]

You sir spew words but never answer the direct questions.

 

[Paradoxum]

Have you read Isaiah 45:7?

If Henry gives to charity, and rapes and murders... he's bad, in the least. Your verse says God creates evil....

Everything is God. Now what?

Wanna fight

Seriously, no snark involved. Now what? When everything is God, every thing that exists being he's source for all that is, now what? What are we really doing here?

God is everything. What does that mean?

I'm still generally in favour of people not staving and being murdered to death.

I'm not (I am) saying I'm better than God, but I'd stop rape and murder if a I could.

 

[Paradoxum]

That quoted part is deep in matters of this discussion. It reminds me of a meme I saw not long ago. God loves you. But if you don't love him back he'll send you to Hell.

Are you agreeing?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

If Henry gives to charity, and rapes and murders... he's bad, in the least. Your verse says God creates evil....

How could he not? He said he was the evil and the good, the darkness and the light.
If God is the creator of all that cannot preclude anything in creation can it? Evil is the absence of righteousness. When God created right he had to make its opposite didn't he? Otherwise, where would discernment arrive from when he foresaw the human race and the battle of good and evil for our souls?

Wanna fight

May be a bit unfair for a number of reasons.

God is everything. What does that mean?

From the perspective of God as defined, how could he not be everything? He's the source of everything that is, was, shall be. No thing exists that was not created from him. Therefore no thing could exist that is not of its creator.

I'm still generally in favour of people not staving and being murdered to death.

And yet, is that God? Or is that the human being at their lesser than God consciousness acting out on their carnal will?
In a world where there are the starving and those being murdered, there are those who are fed, and feeding the hungry, and defending the attacked, and bringing the murderers to justice.

I'm not (I am) saying I'm better than God, but I'd stop rape and murder if a I could.

Is it God that's causing rape and murder? Or is it us? Using what God gave us to work with in an either or scenario reflecting our individual level of relationship to our moral consciousness?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Are you agreeing?

With your prior remarks reposted here? ""I'll hurt you till you love me perfectly"."
No. Had I agreed I'd have said so when I replied to your original post. I said it was deep and reminded me of a meme about God and Hell.

God doesn't hurt people. People hurt people. God set the worlds stage that gives us our human consciousness, conscience, and individual sense of morality, which is of course not universal. It is individual.
For instance, a serial killer doesn't have a moral center. They may not even have a conscience from what I recall reading years ago about I think it was PET scans. A number of volunteer serial killers sentenced to death row or life without parole agreed to be evaluated. The scan showed without exception they had no activity in what has been mapped as the conscience center within the brain.
Is that God? Or is that a birth defect?
Everything in creation was created by a perfect God. Because we make our world, our selves act imperfectly doesn't mean God is the puppet master pulling the strings at every instance of good or bad behavior.

The functionality of all things is Gods doing. How we choose to function is our own. Even when he knows what is to come, it is our pursuit. Why else would he know we'd need a savior if he didn't know it would be necessary to save us from our selves?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

I know more about the Gospel of perfection than anyone here on this board.

Well then Bert, now all you have to do is ask God to help you to learn to release your imperfection of hubris, ego, and pride.
You do not know more about the Gospel of perfection than anyone here on this board. Your braggadocio just proved that.

 

[W2L]

Sadness is in the heart with discernment.

Ecclesiastes 7:3-4

2 Corinthians 6:10

Isaiah 53:3

 

[W2L]

Yea, all that would live godly in Christ will be persecuted.

 

[miknik5]

If Henry gives to charity, and rapes and murders... he's bad, in the least. Your verse says God creates evil....



Wanna fight



God is everything. What does that mean?

I'm still generally in favour of people not staving and being murdered to death.

I'm not (I am) saying I'm better than God, but I'd stop rape and murder if a I could.

How would you stop it?

 

[Philip_B]

I am struggling to follow this thread. On the one hand I think Job is an Old Testament story, so we don't need to make it a Christian story. On the other hand I think it is a solid approach to the question of theodicy.

For me the story is about facing up to the challenge that bad things do happen to good people. If the world is a divinely controlled experiment, and we affirm that God is Good, Just and Fair, then logic says that bad things won't happen to good people. Since they do, we are challenged to understand what is going on. Is God not Good Just and Fair, or is God not in control?

How do we respond when bad things happen to us? How should we understand it? And, I suspect more importantly, how do we respond when bad things happen to those around us? Do we lay the burden on the person and tell them that they must have done something wrong, or do we stand in solidarity?

 

[Dan Bert]

GOD gave us the gospel of repentance for removing imperfections, Ego which is where pride reside. You can pray all you want, but at the end of the day ....If you have not made efforts to repent...He will not remove them. There is no substitution for the gospel of repentance under heaven for making us meek and humble and for cleansing ourselves.

bert12

Well then Bert, now all you have to do is ask God to help you to learn to release your imperfection of hubris, ego, and pride.
You do not know more about the Gospel of perfection than anyone here on this board. Your braggadocio just proved that.

 

[Dan Bert]

Saints of God bring heaven wherever they are. If God were to send His Saints who have overcome the world into hell itself...they would bring heaven to it and destroy hell. The kingdom of God is within us. If I were full of darkness you would not get the teachings from the light. The teachings that I give are not feel good teachings, that God loves us so much that even the wicked will be able to live in the same Kingdom as the Father. Having said this, it is true only the Elect in the last days are not deceived. I do not make null and void Repentance and the justice of God. The law brings blessings for obedience and wrath for disobedience.

bert12

Then you will have no problem when darkness comes

 

[miknik5]

I am struggling to follow this thread. On the one hand I think Job is an Old Testament story, so we don't need to make it a Christian story. On the other hand I think it is a solid approach to the question of theodicy.

For me the story is about facing up to the challenge that bad things do happen to good people. If the world is a divinely controlled experiment, and we affirm that God is Good, Just and Fair, then logic says that bad things won't happen to good people. Since they do, we are challenged to understand what is going on. Is God not Good Just and Fair, or is God not in control?

How do we respond when bad things happen to us? How should we understand it? And, I suspect more importantly, how do we respond when bad things happen to those around us? Do we lay the burden on the person and tell them that they must have done something wrong, or do we stand in solidarity?

All the OT prophets prophecied of CHRIST

They may not have fully understood that then
But they do now

And all their words were in service to us.

 

[miknik5]

Saints of God bring heaven wherever they are. If God were to send His Saints who have overcome the world into hell itself...they would bring heaven to it and destroy hell. The kingdom of God is within us. If I were full of darkness you would not get the teachings from the light. The teachings that I give are not feel good teachings, that God loves us so much that even the wicked will be able to live in the same Kingdom as the Father. Having said this, it is true only the Elect in the last days are not deceived. I do not make null and void Repentance and the justice of God. The law brings blessings for obedience and wrath for disobedience.

bert12

Good

Like I said you will have no problem when darkness comes because you will know what to "do" to overcome


Can you please tell others what they must "do"

 

[miknik5]

GOD gave us the gospel of repentance for removing imperfections, Ego which is where pride reside. You can pray all you want, but at the end of the day ....If you have not made efforts to repent...He will not remove them. There is no substitution for the gospel of repentance under heaven for making us meek and humble and for cleansing ourselves.

bert12

There is no substitution for CHRIST period

Either we remain in "the city of" REFUGE or we "go out"

 

[Dan Bert]

Here is how it works and it explain why Jesus had to do the ministration twice to the blind man he was healing. Here is what your teachers could not teach you. Health comes from within. A healer has the ability by faith to draw it out of the sick or injured person. Jesus could have healed the blind man in Luke, by His own power. That would have been a violation to his will to remain blind. The man after the first ministration could not see perfectly, so Jesus did it again. This increased his faith until the healing could be performed. Jesus never healed any one who did not have the faith to be healed. That is why sometime placebo works better than the drugs. As I have said, health comes from within Because the kingdom of God is within. And inside that kingdom there are gifts, knowledge, wisdom, health etc. Now you know a lot more how things works like healing and why. The ability to self heal is a gift.

bert12

Words like "Physician" and "doctors" exist in our language.

Matthew 9:12 - But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

In the Spiritual sense the word "Whole" means also Complete or holy...."Physicians" mean Healers.

A healer in the bigger sense is someone who can make a person Whole..physically and Spiritually.

Etymology:
physician (n.)
early 13c., fisicien "a healer, a medical practitioner," from Old French fisiciien "physician, doctor, sage" (12c., Modern French physicien means "physicist"), from fisique "art of healing," from Latin physica "natural science" (see physic). Distinguished from surgeon from c. 1400. The ph- spelling attested from late 14c. (see ph).

bert12

 

[Dan Bert]

Christ comes from the Greek Christos Meaning Light. Te be saved we must EN-Light-Ened. In other words full of light. See John on it works. I do not teach to substitute Christ for another...only to live the teachings He gave us so that men can themselves be filled with light so they can do greater works than what Christ showed us.

John 14:12 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

The key is to have correct beliefs in Jesus. Being powerless spiritually is proof we have adopted false teachings from man rather then repented until we are taught of God.

bert12

There is no substitution for CHRIST period

Either we remain in "the city of" REFUGE or we "go out"