The MOST important issue we Must discuss as Christian’s , but there is no forum for it!

[DragonFox91]

I don’t see end of denominations, but I see a significant decrease of denominations. A lot of the causes of the many denominations weren’t worth breaking off over. Denominations with incorrect teaching won’t be able to sustain their numbers & they will die, or they will decide to merge w/ healthy denominations when they realize they can’t sustain their numbers with their teaching.

 

[Sabertooth]

But most divisions have been over trivialities.

Some examples of doctrines that I do not consider to be trivial,

1. Original Sin,*
2. Believer's baptism,
3. Continuationism vs. Cessationism,
4. Mariolatry,...

to name a few.

*I was surprised to discover that it was not included in the Nicene Creed.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

We have a media controlled by atheists determined to misrepresent Us, treating Christian’s as weak in the head,

Sometimes that is not a misinterpretation.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I don’t see end of denominations, but I see a significant decrease of denominations. A lot of the causes of the many denominations weren’t worth breaking off over. Denominations with incorrect teaching won’t be able to sustain their numbers & they will die, or they will decide to merge w/ healthy denominations when they realize they can’t sustain their numbers with their teaching.

The obvious answer is that our churches have little to offer to meet the real needs of people.

For example, In New Zealand, we have a serious shortage of General Practice doctors. This means that many are not getting the medical help they need, and people are suffering with sickness and yet they are forced to wait months to be able to get a consultation. When people are eventually diagnosed with cancer, it is often advanced and terminal, when it could have been better dealt with if the person had been able to see a doctor sooner.

We also have a shortage of surgeons and anaesthetic technicians. This means that many cannot get the surgery they need to alleviate painful conditions and disabilities. All our modern churches can do is to offer religious platitudes. The First Century church got people healed by the power of God. We read this in the book of Acts.

We do have churches and preachers who claim divine healing, but in spite of the promises, it is the norm that people don't get healed. The modern healing movement is akin to clouds without water. There is the appearance that it might rain to being the drought to an end, but nothing actually happens.

We also have people in our communities who are desperately poor, and some churches are doing something to help, but it is no near enough. We have prosperity preachers who are promising wealth to the faithful, but no one is getting rich except the prosperity preachers themselves.

It all boils down to the church having the theory about how to meet the needs of the community, but they can't make it work. Churches try to make themselves relevant to the world, but they become so worldly, that people ask, "What's makes the church any different to us?"

So, the question is, why isn't God supporting the churches with His power to enable them to reach out to our communities with a Gospel that really works and makes the Church a genuine power for good in providing answers to issues that the secular community cannot give?

Perhaps somewhere along the way, the Church lost what it had in the First Century, and all these centuries later, has never regained it, and many religious people are believing that the emperor does have a new suit when in actual fact he is walking around wearing just his undies.

 

[David's Harp]

So what happened with the Asbury Revival?

 

[DragonFox91]

The obvious answer is that our churches have little to offer to meet the real needs of people.

For example, In New Zealand, we have a serious shortage of General Practice doctors. This means that many are not getting the medical help they need, and people are suffering with sickness and yet they are forced to wait months to be able to get a consultation. When people are eventually diagnosed with cancer, it is often advanced and terminal, when it could have been better dealt with if the person had been able to see a doctor sooner.

We also have a shortage of surgeons and anaesthetic technicians. This means that many cannot get the surgery they need to alleviate painful conditions and disabilities. All our modern churches can do is to offer religious platitudes. The First Century church got people healed by the power of God. We read this in the book of Acts.

We do have churches and preachers who claim divine healing, but in spite of the promises, it is the norm that people don't get healed. The modern healing movement is akin to clouds without water. There is the appearance that it might rain to being the drought to an end, but nothing actually happens.

When I read this post, I read 'fix the world's problems & they will come'. No, it's never ever worked like that. You fix people's problems, they say 'cool, I'm gonna go enjoy life now, bye church.' No, that's not how followers are converted, built, & grown.

So what happened with the Asbury Revival?

The people moved on to spread the Gospel & grow existing disciples. Not sure what you're getting at.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

When I read this post, I read 'fix the world's problems & they will come'. No, it's never ever worked like that. You fix people's problems, they say 'cool, I'm gonna go enjoy life now, bye church.' No, that's not how followers are converted, built, & grown.


The people moved on to spread the Gospel & grow existing disciples. Not sure what you're getting at.

In the first century church, people got healed of their sicknesses. When just one disabled man got healed through Peter and John, five thousand men, not counting women and children, joined the church. In the uncommon event where a person got healed of a terminal disease or disability in modern times, all that person's friends and family turned to Christ and joined the church, plus a sizeable chunk of the community.

In the book of Acts, Luke says that God brought people into the church as He saw fit. Maybe that church was a place where God could lead people. Perhaps our modern churches are places where God would have no trust that leading them there would do them any good.

 

[Mountainmike]

Sometimes that is not a misinterpretation.

It is certainly not universally true.

There are many christian science professors. Even the legendary Francis Collins of complete human Genome sequencing is a christian. I could cite many from astronomy to pathology to quantum physics.

 

[Mountainmike]

When I read this post, I read 'fix the world's problems & they will come'. No, it's never ever worked like that. You fix people's problems, they say 'cool, I'm gonna go enjoy life now, bye church.' No, that's not how followers are converted, built, & grown.


The people moved on to spread the Gospel & grow existing disciples. Not sure what you're getting at.

All interesting stuff.

Actually the post is about trying to establish the wish and interest in a new forum to discuss it.

Can I take it from the discussion you are all for the idea of a discussion?

 

[Larniavc]

How can we bring young people back to christianity?

Maybe ask them? Getting everyone into the club house who already has the secret password isn’t going to do much more than start a big fight.

 

[DragonFox91]

All interesting stuff.

Actually the post is about trying to establish the wish and interest in a new forum to discuss it.

Can I take it from the discussion you are all for the idea of a discussion?

I don't know much about it, I read the Wikipedia article & knew it was happening when it was happening & got excited a Revival was happening, but that's about it, so not sure how much I can contribute, but yeah, if you want to discuss it, for go it.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Some examples of doctrines that I do not consider to be trivial,

1. Original Sin,*
2. Believer's baptism,
3. Continuationism vs. Cessationism,
4. Mariolatry,...

to name a few.

*I was surprised to discover that it was not included in the Nicene Creed.

It is possible to maintain unity of the Spirit even if there is disagreement on doctrine. Obviously some doctrines are fundamental, as I've said before.
I had a Bible school for two years. One day, a 90 year old man came to the school, obviously finding it hard to walk. He came to challenge me on baptisimal regeneration. I was willing to discuss this with him. The moment I said that I did not agree, he went off in a huff. He did not even give me the chance to explain why I disagreed. I felt sorry for him. All that struggle for nothing. He did not even stop for a cup of tea.

 

[Mountainmike]

Some examples of doctrines that I do not consider to be trivial,

1. Original Sin,*
2. Believer's baptism,
3. Continuationism vs. Cessationism,
4. Mariolatry,...

to name a few.

*I was surprised to discover that it was not included in the Nicene Creed.

Stop hijacking my thread.

This is about persuading youngsters to come to Christianity.
Specifically about whether it justifies a new forum here

This is not another “your Personal view of scripture attacking Catholics thread”
If you have nothing to offer to young people. Butt out.

 

[Sabertooth]

Stop hijacking my thread.

This is about persuading youngsters to come to Christianity.
Specifically about whether it justifies a new forum here

I don't mean to press the point, but what will draw young people into The Vineyard
is not the same thing that will draw young people into the Catholic Church, et al.

They do not offer the same thing. And there is no one-size-fits-all form of Christianity.

 

[Mountainmike]

I don't mean to press the point, but what will draw young people into The Vineyard
is not the same thing that will draw young people into the Catholic Church, et al.

They do not offer the same thing. And there is no one-size-fits-all form of Christianity.

how defeatist.

First address the issues why they stay away,
eg
1/ Scientism. The false narratives on origin of life and god of the gaps
2/ Peer Pressure.
3/ Shockingly bad behaviour by many who profess Christianity.
4/ Division. Christianity is not even seen as a cohesive thing

As for your comment.
5/ designer “christianity” , pick amd mix the bits you like, is not one size fits all
but
6/ the truth is one truth, you do not get to choose it, you either conform ot not
For sure expressions of it can vary to taste, but not the essence,

 

[dzheremi]

We have the closest thing possible to a 'pan-denominational' area in the Traditional Theology subforum, where respectful dialogue can be found among traditionally-minded Protestants (Anglicans, Lutherans, etc.), Roman Catholics, a few Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and some curious onlookers. It's not a very popular place, however, I suspect because of the respect that is required to be paid to tradition there.

 

[Mountainmike]

We have the closest thing possible to a 'pan-denominational' area in the Traditional Theology subforum, where respectful dialogue can be found among traditionally-minded Protestants (Anglicans, Lutherans, etc.), Roman Catholics, a few Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and some curious onlookers. It's not a very popular place, however, I suspect because of the respect that is required to be paid to tradition there.

Interesting. Not really on topic of how to persuade newcomers.

The reality is of course ALL have tradition - the lens handed down through which they view scripture, in many cases that tradition coded as “articles” “ statements of belief” or “confessions “ or “ codes” . The difference is articles and confessions are definitely “man made tradition, “ because we can even say who wrote them! Take Cranmer wrote the 38 articles which are clearly not from post apostolic time. It was part of the reason I started a journey which led back ( for me at least) to Rome.

The postapostolic writings such as Ignatius to smyrneans clearly have far greater status traceable to John the apostle. Yet many groups refuse to read such things because of “ scripture only” yet they happily accept the recent “ statement of belief” , which is their written tradition given by their congregation, which is seemingly double standards.


Wrong forum, but I’d be fascinated in your view of the Esphigmenou monks.

 

[Matt5]

I have a post I would like to write but I cant find a forum for it.

It is pan denominational.

As we speak, congregations are falling, many rely only on ageing populations .
Some - once mighty- denominations are current attrition rate, destined to disappear In a decade.

Christianity is no longer appealing to the young.
How can we get them back?

They are fed a diet of scientism and the shrinking God of the gaps falasy.

Whilst it is patchy , in Portugal it is far better than U.K., the trend is clear, and it is time we fought back .

I have some thoughts on several points we must address,
Part of the problem is all of Us. What we do against what we should do!
Part of the problem is peer pressure , some kids are ridiculed for confirmation!
Part of the problem is the dishonesty in presentation of what science knows or can know.
We have a media controlled by atheists deternined to misrepresent Us, treating Christian’s as weak in the head,

They create all sorts of false tropes like “religion is responsible for all wars and deaths”. ignoring communist China, Russia and Cambodia!

So call the forum what you will, but it is a cross denominational discussion of


”fighting back for the hearts of the young.”
The problem. Experience. Solutions . Ideas.

I literally cannot find a forum for it but it is surely one of the most important Subjects of all.

if it’s created I’ll write the first post.

All ideas welcome.
Christian only.

You're fighting against the religion of equality. Most Christians believe in equality. In reality, they need to reject it. Will they? I'm thinking no.

 

[RDKirk]

I agree 100%. The "open door" policy of most denominations is also reponsible for major problems. I believe that the Brethren have the right approach. They have an evangelistic meeting, a break then a meeting for the church. Should anyone be saved in the first meeting, they are welcomed in the meeting of the church.

We attended a church like that years ago in another city. The Sunday morning service was evangelistic: "Bring your unchurched friends." The sermons and worship were based on the Gospels.

The Sunday evening service was for members. The sermons were based more often on the apostolic letters to the Church. That's when communion was held. Prayers were personal. Church business was discussed. The charismata were demonstrated.

I believe that we will see the end of denominations eventually. The true church will go underground. There will be a price to pay to be a Christian, which will weed out the imposters. We are seeing the end of "Christian" nations. I believe that Judaism, Islam and Catholicism will merge to become the "authorised" world religion. True Christianity will be outlawed. But Jesus is victorious and so is His church! Every attempt to suppress the true church will fail and we will triumph over whatever the world throws at us.

It will go underground in many places, just be unpopular and socially disadvantageous in others. But I take note that the Church in North Korea has expanded tenfold since 2000.

 

[RDKirk]

Some examples of doctrines that I do not consider to be trivial,

1. Original Sin,*
2. Believer's baptism,
3. Continuationism vs. Cessationism,
4. Mariolatry,...

to name a few.

*I was surprised to discover that it was not included in the Nicene Creed.

That's because it's trivial.