The MOST important issue we Must discuss as Christian’s , but there is no forum for it!

[Mountainmike]

I have a post I would like to write but I cant find a forum for it.

It is pan denominational.

As we speak, congregations are falling, many rely only on ageing populations .
Some - once mighty- denominations are current attrition rate, destined to disappear In a decade.

Christianity is no longer appealing to the young.
How can we get them back?

They are fed a diet of scientism and the shrinking God of the gaps falasy.

Whilst it is patchy , in Portugal it is far better than U.K., the trend is clear, and it is time we fought back .

I have some thoughts on several points we must address,
Part of the problem is all of Us. What we do against what we should do!
Part of the problem is peer pressure , some kids are ridiculed for confirmation!
Part of the problem is the dishonesty in presentation of what science knows or can know.
We have a media controlled by atheists deternined to misrepresent Us, treating Christian’s as weak in the head,

They create all sorts of false tropes like “religion is responsible for all wars and deaths”. ignoring communist China, Russia and Cambodia!

So call the forum what you will, but it is a cross denominational discussion of


”fighting back for the hearts of the young.”
The problem. Experience. Solutions . Ideas.

I literally cannot find a forum for it but it is surely one of the most important Subjects of all.

if it’s created I’ll write the first post.

All ideas welcome.
Christian only.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

All of the sub-forums that are not specifically denominational forums can fill this pan-denominational role.

In terms of bringing together people from different traditions who stay apart for valid doctrinal reasons, it doesn't sound like a sound unity model from a Christian perspective.

People putting up with others so results are produced is more of a worldly compromise style of unity.

 

[Mountainmike]

All of the sub-forums that are not specifically denominational forums can fill this pan-denominational role.

In terms of bringing together people from different traditions who stay apart for valid doctrinal reasons, it doesn't sound like a sound unity model from a Christian perspective.

People putting up with others so results are produced is more of a worldly compromise style of unity.

Thanks for the reply.

It is true there are places where it could satisfy guidelines.

But most of them have a stated purpose which is not this.

Look at the sub forums of (for example) "discussion and debate"- it does not really fit any of them.
It is not ethics, creation, news events or politics. "kitchen sink" is demeaning to it.

But it does belong as a subforum of "discussion and debate" with a new title. But only for christians.
How can we bring young people back to christianity?

There are of course many aspects to it.
Why we lost them. Arguments to win them back. Where and how to approach them.
How young christians can defend themselves when attacked or ridiculed by peer pressure.
Putting pressure on education systems on modifying what is taught.
What we can do to seem more worthy of consideration!.
Pastor/priest experience of doing so.

They Are all different subjects worthy of posts.

As a marketing guy, you have to start where they are to lead them to where you want them to be.
Where they are is not believing the bible, so no biblical argument will win.
Where they are is believing science has all the answers.
So there is the battle ground, which they define not you - or rather atheist materialist educators defined it.

 

[Mountainmike]

I have a post I would like to write but I cant find a forum for it.

It is pan denominational.

As we speak, congregations are falling, many rely only on ageing populations .
Some - once mighty- denominations are current attrition rate, destined to disappear In a decade.

Christianity is no longer appealing to the young.
They are fed a diet of scientism and the shrinking God of the gaps falasy.

Whilst it is patchy , in Portugal it is far better than U.K., the trend is clear, and it is time we fought back .

I have some thoughts on several points we must address,
Part of the problem is all of Us. What we do against what we should do!
Part of the problem is peer pressure , some kids are ridiculed for confirmation!
Part of the problem is the dishonesty in presentation of what science knows or can know.
We have a media controlled by atheists deternined to misrepresent Us, treating Christian’s as weak in the head,

They create all sorts of false tropes like “religion is responsible for all wars and deaths”. ignoring communist China, Russia and Cambodia!

So call the forum what you will, but it is a cross denominational discussion of
”fighting back for the hearts of the young.”

I literally cannot find a forum for it but it is surely one of the most important Subjects of all.

if it’s created I’ll write the first post.

All ideas welcome.
Christian only.

So I am asking others. I would love an opinion?

Do you think this is an important, or one of the most important problems we all face?
Would YOU like to see discussion of it?
Do you have anything you think is useful contribution to it?

 

[trophy33]

So I am asking others. I would love an opinion?

Do you think this is an important, or one of the most important problems we all face?
Would YOU like to see discussion of it?
Do you have anything you think is useful contribution to it?

Young people are influenced by:
a) family (divorce rate and single mothers are skyrocketing)
b) friends (mostly from the same environment like everybody else, just the level of decadence can differ here or there)
c) social media - full of decadence too

So, until you will own the most influential social media or if you cannot fix people to stay together in a family unit with a present father, there is not much you can do.

When society gets into this degradation state, its mostly some massive event that changes the course of history to conservative values again, not social activism. Natural men incline to decadence, when they can (if life is easy enough to allow that).

 

[Kale100]

Young people are influenced by:
a) family (divorce rate and single mothers are skyrocketing)
b) friends (mostly from the same environment like everybody else, just the level of decadence can differ here or there)
c) social media - full of decadence too

So, until you will own the most influential social media or if you cannot fix people to stay together in a family unit with a present father, there is not much you can do.

Indeed, so to a young person (or anyone really)...
a) be like family
b) be a friend
c) I can't answer much on this, never used it.

It would be productive to have some conversion regarding ways to create opportunities to do a) and b).

 

[Mountainmike]

Young people are influenced by:
a) family (divorce rate and single mothers are skyrocketing)
b) friends (mostly from the same environment like everybody else, just the level of decadence can differ here or there)
c) social media - full of decadence too

So, until you will own the most influential social media or if you cannot fix people to stay together in a family unit with a present father, there is not much you can do.

When society gets into this degradation state, its mostly some massive event that changes the course of history to conservative values again, not social activism. Natural men incline to decadence, when they can (if life is easy enough to allow that).

The point is - there is a subject to discuss here!
The whys and how’s of getting them back,

So do you support a subforum of discussion for how to get the lost geberation back?

 

[trophy33]

The point is - there is a subject to discuss here!
The whys and how’s of getting them back,

So do you support a subforum of discussion for how to get the lost geberation back?

I do not see a need for a specific subforum. The main point of my post was something like "its useless to talk about it here, because we do not have such influence to change a generation."

If you are not a known youtuber with millions of subscribers.

 

[Mountainmike]

I do not see a need for a specific subforum. The main point of my post was something like "its useless to talk about it here, because we do not have such influence to change a generation."

If you are not a known youtuber with millions of subscribers.

How defeatist!
Im sure our Lord wants us to try!
Reaching large numbers isn’t a great problem
persuading them is!

 

[trophy33]

How defeatist!
Im sure our Lord wants us to try!

Try, then.

 

[PloverWing]

So I am asking others. I would love an opinion?

Do you think this is an important, or one of the most important problems we all face?
Would YOU like to see discussion of it?
Do you have anything you think is useful contribution to it?

I think it's an important problem, one that I think about often in my own parish.

Alas, I don't know whether I have useful thoughts to contribute. I feel like I need to know more about history and sociology: When were majority-Christian populations more, and less, actively religious in the past? What contributed to these ups and downs? What factors tend to make people more, or less, interested in religious faith? And I'm not a social scientist. But I'd listen to the discussion if you started one.

 

[tampasteve]

I sincerely think this is a topic that needs more conversation and more ideas, so I love the idea.

Probably the most appropriate places we have now are these forums:
Children and Youth Ministry
Missions, Evangelism & Witnessing

Usually, our recommendation is to start several topics and threads in one of those forums, if the topics gain traction and interest we can look at splitting it off to a sub-forum. But in general, we try not to make new forums; honestly, we probably have too many already.

 

[Aussie Pete]

All of the sub-forums that are not specifically denominational forums can fill this pan-denominational role.

In terms of bringing together people from different traditions who stay apart for valid doctrinal reasons, it doesn't sound like a sound unity model from a Christian perspective.

People putting up with others so results are produced is more of a worldly compromise style of unity.

There are no valid doctrinal reasons for staying apart. I go to a church where they sprinkle infants and believe everyone who is born again is also baptised in the Holy Spirit. I agree with neither. So what? God does not have a theology examination before accepting people into heaven. I've been to a number of churches near me that are much closer to my understanding doctrinally. They were cold and aloof. The people where I now go are friendlier and love Jesus. We prove that we have passed from death to life by loving the brethren, not by how well we conform to some denominational ideal.

Paul rebuked the Corinthians for exactly this issue. I traveled a lot in the first few years of my Christian life. I often had no choice, and very little knowledge, of what various denominations believed. I found the differences to be so minor as to be barely distinguishable. Yet you would think that these differences were a matter of life and death. Psalm 133 tells us that there is the blessing of life for evermore when brethren dwell in unity. What do you imagine disunity brings? I suggest the mess that calls itself church in this day and age.

Of course there are exceptions. They are unfortunately rare. Some on the forum carry on about obeying God's Law. They seem to forget that there are new principles that apply to the church. This includes " Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace…"

 

[Sabertooth]

Such a dialog (as the OP) could could only occur in an ecumenical fellowship which is only a step away from a singular, global denomination. It would be the ecclesiastical equivalent of Esperanto.

I am willing to love others who name the Name of Christ,
but I am unwilling to

1. embrace doctrines that I know to be atrocious and
2. forsake those that are proven to be edifying

just for some superficial semblance of unity (especially in the Last Days filled with Tares)...!

Also, we are expecting a "great falling away" in the Last Days [2 Thess. 2:1-8; 2 Tim. 3:1-9].
Will humanistic interventions reverse that?

 

[Mountainmike]

Such a dialog (as the OP) could could only occur in an ecumenical fellowship which is only a step away from a singular, global denomination. It would be the ecclesiastical equivalent of Esperanto.

I am willing to love others who name the Name of Christ,
but I am unwilling to

1. embrace doctrines that I know to be atrocious and
2. forsake those that are proven to be edifying

just for some superficial semblance of unity (especially in the Last Days filled with Tares)...!

Also, we are expecting a "great falling away" in the Last Days [2 Thess. 2:1-8; 2 Tim. 3:1-9].
Will humanistic interventions reverse that?

The above is an answer to a different question .

Start with the question of the cultural ( and pseudoscientific) reasons why the young are staying away, having never been part Of Christianity.

Every denomination has the problem . Ie ”pan” means applies to all.

Its your job to attract them. How?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

There are no valid doctrinal reasons for staying apart. I go to a church where they sprinkle infants and believe everyone who is born again is also baptised in the Holy Spirit. I agree with neither. So what? God does not have a theology examination before accepting people into heaven. I've been to a number of churches near me that are much closer to my understanding doctrinally. They were cold and aloof. The people where I now go are friendlier and love Jesus. We prove that we have passed from death to life by loving the brethren, not by how well we conform to some denominational ideal.

Paul rebuked the Corinthians for exactly this issue. I traveled a lot in the first few years of my Christian life. I often had no choice, and very little knowledge, of what various denominations believed. I found the differences to be so minor as to be barely distinguishable. Yet you would think that these differences were a matter of life and death. Psalm 133 tells us that there is the blessing of life for evermore when brethren dwell in unity. What do you imagine disunity brings? I suggest the mess that calls itself church in this day and age.

Of course there are exceptions. They are unfortunately rare. Some on the forum carry on about obeying God's Law. They seem to forget that there are new principles that apply to the church. This includes " Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace…"

We have been apart so long, it's like we don't know how to be together as one body.

It's not so much what the doctrines are on paper, it's how the doctrines are applied. Too many churches across the spectrum of liberal and conservative have fell into a lull of letting the kids who grew up in the church run them ... whether they were born again or not. Money talks after all.

This goes back to application: If a majority of people were born into Christian families but not born again in the church population; then this results in a vast number of people wanting to fit in and have "signs following" their belief. However, when people who are not born again do this, it results in witchcraft so ...

Unity isn't as simple as some people make it out to be.

 

[DragonFox91]

There was a thread on this a week ago or so. The problem is many church youth groups, Sunday schools, etc. are either afraid to talk to the youth about beliefs & so just have it be social hour, or the leaders themselves are wishy-washy Christians themselves or don't know why they believe themselves if they even do. I’ve seen all these cases in person. This is unacceptable! The problem has its roots when the kids are in high school & younger.
In classes, I think it’s important to emphasize God’s sovereignty. Not just his love. God’s love & goodness doesn’t mean anything to youth b/c they find it in other places. His sovereignty, it makes things make sense.
I think it’s important to not leave the OT out. Leaving the OT out gives the impression Jesus was just a back-up plan or just a good teacher. It gives the youth (& not just the youth) the impression God’s a different God in the OT & therefore can’t be trusted & therefore Jesus can’t be trusted.
I think it’s important to explain why we believe the Bible is true. NO MORE of this ‘we believe because the Bible says so.’

Finally, ask yourself: why are some denominations dying out as their congregations age? Answer: it’s what they preach. Young people can’t tell the difference between what’s being preached & what the secular world is preaching. A lot of people think churches that continue to stray will die out, but the youth who do recognize truth are flocking & will flock to churches that continue to teach truth. Denominations dying out -> not a bad thing. I see this. I’ve attended churches that are wishy-washy on topics. They’re dying, they can’t replace the youth. Churches that remain Biblical -> the rows are overflowing w/ people who want Truth, young & old.

Just another comment too, I repeat this often: Parents can’t be afraid to teach their youth. If they don’t hear the Gospel from their parents, they won’t, or it may be a long long time & it’s only hurting their children. I know many Christian parents who were scared because they don’t or didn’t want to be accused of indoctrinating. I think churches can be scared of that too. No! That’s unacceptable Teach! Pass on what you’ve learned & has given you peace & joy! Why wouldn’t you want to do that??? If you won’t teach them, the world will, plain & simple.

2 Timothy 3:
But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Aussie Pete]

We have been apart so long, it's like we don't know how to be together as one body.

It's not so much what the doctrines are on paper, it's how the doctrines are applied. Too many churches across the spectrum of liberal and conservative have fell into a lull of letting the kids who grew up in the church run them ... whether they were born again or not. Money talks after all.

This goes back to application: If a majority of people were born into Christian families but not born again in the church population; then this results in a vast number of people wanting to fit in and have "signs following" their belief. However, when people who are not born again do this, it results in witchcraft so ...

Unity isn't as simple as some people make it out to be.

I agree 100%. The "open door" policy of most denominations is also reponsible for major problems. I believe that the Brethren have the right approach. They have an evangelistic meeting, a break then a meeting for the church. Should anyone be saved in the first meeting, they are welcomed in the meeting of the church.

I believe that we will see the end of denominations eventually. The true church will go underground. There will be a price to pay to be a Christian, which will weed out the imposters. We are seeing the end of "Christian" nations. I believe that Judaism, Islam and Catholicism will merge to become the "authorised" world religion. True Christianity will be outlawed. But Jesus is victorious and so is His church! Every attempt to suppress the true church will fail and we will triumph over whatever the world throws at us.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Such a dialog (as the OP) could could only occur in an ecumenical fellowship which is only a step away from a singular, global denomination. It would be the ecclesiastical equivalent of Esperanto.

I am willing to love others who name the Name of Christ,
but I am unwilling to

1. embrace doctrines that I know to be atrocious and
2. forsake those that are proven to be edifying

just for some superficial semblance of unity (especially in the Last Days filled with Tares)...!

Also, we are expecting a "great falling away" in the Last Days [2 Thess. 2:1-8; 2 Tim. 3:1-9].
Will humanistic interventions reverse that?

I disagree. It's not a matter of dialogue. It's not even a matter of doctrine. We are exhorted to maintain the unity that we already have in the Spirit. Sure, there are fundamentals that are beyond dispute. But most divisions have been over trivialities. And very often it is more of a personality clash at leadership level, or a dispute over the direction the church should take. Such issues can and should be resolved without division. It takes a little humility, patience and the will to seek God until the issues are resolved.

 

[PloverWing]

I believe that we will see the end of denominations eventually.

Do you mean that we'll stop being interested in the theological questions that gave rise to the various schisms? Or, alternatively, that we'll all decide we should have been Eastern Orthodox all along, and reunite that way? Or, alternatively, that we'll find some way to reconcile our differences and express our various theological and liturgical paths under the umbrella of one church organization -- something like the intent of the United Church of Christ or the Porvoo Communion? What does the end of denominations look like, in your vision?