Men listening to women teach the Bible!

[Clare73]

No! And that's all I'll say because this is the "conservative" forum section and I don't want to step on toes ... especially if I, or the sources of MY position, are readily misunderstood and dismissed.

But, have a blessed Sunday, Clare!

You're scrambling my brains.

Are you or your sources thinking, in light of the creation-order principles in which Paul grounds his instructions:
1) submit to your husbands as to the Lord, for
2) the husband is head of the wife as Christ is head of the church, his body,
3) as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything,

that these Christian principles apply only to the Ephesian women and are not principles for all Christian women?

Are you or your sources thinking the offensive Greek culture
negates NT apostolic teaching to Ephesian wives' regarding submission to their husbands, or that
it excludes other Christian wives from those principles in which Paul's instructions are grounded, or that
this teaching based on these Christian principles is not to be taken at its clear word, but is to be adapted to agree more with our times?
If so, that is setting one's opinion above NT principles which, by the nature of "principle," apply to all Christians.

Can you unscramble my brains for me, here?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You're scrambling my brains.

Are you or your sources thinking, in light of the spiritual principles in which Paul grounds his instructions:
1) submit to your husbands as to the Lord, for
2) the husband is head of the wife as Christ is head of the church, his body,
3) as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything,
that his instructions apply only to the Ephesian women?

Yes. She is saying that Paul was instruction Ephensians (as I'm sure he did the other Greek churches) to let go of their more pagan understanding and practices and transform their outlook to one that comports with the order that Christ would have us have.

Are you or your sources thinking the offensive Greek culture
negates NT apostolic teaching to Ephesian wives' regarding submission to their husbands, or that
it excludes other Christian wives from those spiritual principles in which Paul's instructions are grounded, or that
this teaching based on these spiritual principles is not to be taken at its clear word, but is to be adapted to agree more with our times?

Can you unscramble my brains for me, here?

Yes. Kroeger, in sum, was saying that Grecian non-Christian women of Paul's time were not uncommonly 'radical' in ways that were not compatible with the profession of faith in Christ, and it was THIS problem specifically that Paul was primarily addressing in the 1st letter to Timothy.

Of course, if we didn't have modern archaeology and history and other sciences for our hermeneutical studies (which is not 'rationalizing' by any stretch of the imagination) by which to aid us in our understanding of the cultural in which Paul was preaching, we could easily miss what the actual issues were that he was addressing, issues that the Greek churches in places like Ephesus and Corinth were having a difficult time dealing with. ... Kind of like in the U.S. these days.

Anyway, I hope that clarifies it for you, Clare.

 

[Simon_Templar]

It depends on the context.

What Paul is talking about in 1st Timothy 2:12 is ordained authority in the Church.

This is something that is largely irrelevant in a lot of Churches today as few if any people believe that the Church has authority.
In the traditional Church (and the early Church) the teaching of the Church was authoritative, meaning you were bound to obey it.

In most Churches today, the teaching is basically just either self-help speeches, or at best academic lectures. That is not what Paul is talking about.

There is no problem, for example, sitting in a bible class being taught by a woman, or a woman writing books about theology etc. That is not authoritative teaching. It relies on her expertise as a scholar etc.

If your church does not ascribe legitimate teaching authority to it's leadership, then it is probably not really what Paul is talking about. If it is outside of the authority of the Church it is definitively not what Paul is talking about.

What Paul is saying is that women cannot be ordained with the authority of the episcopal (and by extension the presbyterate) office.

 

[Rescued One]

I don't know very many women in life. I have mixed thoughts on this subject because I learn a lot from men and women. It a different way the two think.

I don't think that men and women have different revelations of scripture. But men have authority in the church and boys and girls share classes.

2 Timothy 1:5
I am reminded of your sincere faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and in your mother Eunice and, I am persuaded, now lives in you also.