IRRECONCILABLE DIFFERENCES?: Public Opinion Shifts on Ukraine-Russia, Israel-Hamas Wars

[Ana the Ist]

If Ukraine began receiving state of the art military equipment such that they started invading Russian territory, killing thousands of civilian women and children and leveling civilian neighborhoods along the way they would be criticized for that too. These conflicts are not the same.

Does everyone supporting a Ukraine victory realize that is almost certainly what would have to happen for Ukraine to win?

I don't see Putin throwing in the towel without the likelihood of real territorial losses and/or a threat to Moscow. If you think that looks like a labor day parade....you're wrong.

If your neighbor's kid keyed your car do you think it would be justified for you to burn down their house?

Great analogy. Spontaneous mass murder, rape, kidnapping of innocent Israelis = children keying a car.

I think you would agree that would be a disproportionate response.

Absolutely.

I bet you wouldn't even think keying the neighbor's car in response would really be appropriate even if it was considered justified.

It depends....is said neighbor willing to cover the cost of damages?

If not...that neighbor may find their tires suffered a mortal wound in the middle of the night.

Hypothetically of course, in no way should the above statement be considered anything other than satire and for entertainment purposes only.

Conservatives seem to lack any sense of nuance and context.

Wow....was this statement (a large group generalization based on one characteristic and lacking all nuance and context) intentionally ironic and hypocritical?

If so....well done, sir. Well done.

 

[wing2000]

Does everyone supporting a Ukraine victory realize that is almost certainly what would have to happen for Ukraine to win?

If by "win" you mean recapturing all the territory taken by Putin since 2014, I don't see that happening. IMO, Ukraine will call for negotiations in the near future...but only after they have re-enforced their air defense and front lines.

I don't see Putin throwing in the towel without the likelihood of real territorial losses and/or a threat to Moscow. If you think that looks like a labor day parade....you're wrong.

And had the US not passed the latest aid bill, I would see PUtin continuing take terrority until he reaches Kiev. He would have no reason to not to....

 

[Ana the Ist]

On the surface this sounds like a valid and cogent point, but if one puts some thought into how, say, Representative Greene (R, GA) might characterize Joe Biden’s Administration as, enmeshing us with a futile war just to get votes, you can see why this wasn’t the chosen course of “strategy“.

Agreed. Clearly the reelection strategy was "put Trump in jail";and that way it won't really matter if the administration screws up the economy, education, health-care, crime, the border, foreign policy, etc.

No it isn’t a “proxy war”; there’s no “proxy-partner” with Russia.
Russia, (an international adversary), invaded an ally. We’re helping the ally, because that’s what allies do for one another.

China. China has been providing military aid....both weapons and intelligence....

https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/92367

And of course, China has also been helping Russian consumers get those products made inaccessible due to sanctions.

8/10 for rhetoric, somewhat less for savvy.

6/10 for novelty and a whopping 2/10 for facts.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If by "win" you mean recapturing all the territory taken by Putin since 2014, I don't see that happening.

By "win" I mean the liberation of all (or nearly all) territory Russia has gained since the beginning of the conflict with no further attempts at military incursion.

And had the US not passed the latest aid bill, I would see PUtin continuing take terrority until he reaches Kiev. He would have no reason to not to....

I'm not sure that the latest bill did anything but stall that outcome.