Ellen White: Meat eating weakens moral powers

HopeSings

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Proverbs 23 is not about meat but sin. It's about avoiding contention, lust, greed and pride. The deceptive food isn't meat but wealth and contention and division.


Luke 7:34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’

Proverbs 23:1 When you sit down to eat with a ruler,
Consider carefully what is before you;
2 And put a knife to your throat
If you are a man given to appetite.
3 Do not desire his delicacies,
For they are deceptive food.
4 Do not overwork to be rich;
Because of your own understanding, cease!
5 [a]Will you set your eyes on that which is not?
For riches certainly make themselves wings;
They fly away like an eagle toward heaven.
6 Do not eat the bread of a[b] miser,
Nor desire his delicacies;
7 For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.
“Eat and drink!” he says to you,
But his heart is not with you.
8 The morsel you have eaten, you will vomit up,
And waste your pleasant words.
9 Do not speak in the hearing of a fool,
For he will despise the wisdom of your words.
10 Do not remove the ancient [c]landmark,
Nor enter the fields of the fatherless;
11 For their Redeemer is mighty;
He will plead their cause against you.
12 Apply your heart to instruction,
And your ears to words of knowledge.
13 Do not withhold correction from a child,
For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.
14 You shall beat him with a rod,
And deliver his soul from [d]hell.
15 My son, if your heart is wise,
My heart will rejoice—indeed, I myself;
16 Yes, my [e]inmost being will rejoice
When your lips speak right things.
17 Do not let your heart envy sinners,
But be zealous for the fear of the Lord all the day;
18 For surely there is a [f]hereafter,
And your hope will not be cut off.
19 Hear, my son, and be wise;
And guide your heart in the way.
20 Do not mix with winebibbers,
Or with gluttonous eaters of meat;
21 For the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty,
And drowsiness will clothe a man with rags.
22 Listen to your father who begot you,
And do not despise your mother when she is old.
23 Buy the truth, and do not sell it,
Also
wisdom and instruction and understanding.
24 The father of the righteous will greatly rejoice,
And he who begets a wise child will delight in him.
25 Let your father and your mother be glad,
And let her who bore you rejoice.
26 My son, give me your heart,
And let your eyes observe my ways.
27 For a harlot is a deep pit,
And a seductress is a narrow well.
28 She also lies in wait as for a victim,
And increases the unfaithful among men.
29 Who has woe?
Who has sorrow?
Who has contentions?
Who has complaints?
Who has wounds without cause?
Who has redness of eyes?
30 Those who linger long at the wine,
Those who go in search of mixed wine.
31 Do not look on the wine when it is red,
When it sparkles in the cup,
When it [g]swirls around smoothly;
32 At the last it bites like a serpent,
And stings like a viper.
33 Your eyes will see strange things,
And your heart will utter perverse things.
34 Yes, you will be like one who lies down in the [h]midst of the sea,
Or like one who lies at the top of the mast, saying:
35 “They have struck me, but I was not hurt;
They have beaten me, but I did not feel it.
When shall I awake, that I may seek another drink?



 
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bbbbbbb

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Jainism doesn't require Veganism. Neither does Hinduism (which are really two separate religions).
No religion "requires" anything, does it? Hinduism, which is exceedingly loosely composed really doesn't require a single thing, to my knowledge. In fact, one can say that even the most totalitarian system actually can't "require" anything of anyone without their acquiescence.

Now that we are playing that semantic game, how do you define "require" and what bearing does it actually have on the OP of this thread?
 
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bbbbbbb

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Proverbs 23 is not about meat but sin. It's about avoiding contention, lust, greed and pride. The deceptive food isn't meat but wealth and contention and division.


Luke 7:34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’

Proverbs 23:1 When you sit down to eat with a ruler,
Consider carefully what is before you;
2 And put a knife to your throat
If you are a man given to appetite.
3 Do not desire his delicacies,
For they are deceptive food.
4 Do not overwork to be rich;
Because of your own understanding, cease!
5 [a]Will you set your eyes on that which is not?
For riches certainly make themselves wings;
They fly away like an eagle toward heaven.
6 Do not eat the bread of a[b] miser,
Nor desire his delicacies;
7 For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.
“Eat and drink!” he says to you,
But his heart is not with you.
8 The morsel you have eaten, you will vomit up,
And waste your pleasant words.
9 Do not speak in the hearing of a fool,
For he will despise the wisdom of your words.
10 Do not remove the ancient [c]landmark,
Nor enter the fields of the fatherless;
11 For their Redeemer is mighty;
He will plead their cause against you.
12 Apply your heart to instruction,
And your ears to words of knowledge.
13 Do not withhold correction from a child,
For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.
14 You shall beat him with a rod,
And deliver his soul from [d]hell.
15 My son, if your heart is wise,
My heart will rejoice—indeed, I myself;
16 Yes, my [e]inmost being will rejoice
When your lips speak right things.
17 Do not let your heart envy sinners,
But be zealous for the fear of the Lord all the day;
18 For surely there is a [f]hereafter,
And your hope will not be cut off.
19 Hear, my son, and be wise;
And guide your heart in the way.
20 Do not mix with winebibbers,
Or with gluttonous eaters of meat;
21 For the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty,
And drowsiness will clothe a man with rags.
22 Listen to your father who begot you,
And do not despise your mother when she is old.
23 Buy the truth, and do not sell it,
Also
wisdom and instruction and understanding.
24 The father of the righteous will greatly rejoice,
And he who begets a wise child will delight in him.
25 Let your father and your mother be glad,
And let her who bore you rejoice.
26 My son, give me your heart,
And let your eyes observe my ways.
27 For a harlot is a deep pit,
And a seductress is a narrow well.
28 She also lies in wait as for a victim,
And increases the unfaithful among men.
29 Who has woe?
Who has sorrow?
Who has contentions?
Who has complaints?
Who has wounds without cause?
Who has redness of eyes?
30 Those who linger long at the wine,
Those who go in search of mixed wine.
31 Do not look on the wine when it is red,
When it sparkles in the cup,
When it [g]swirls around smoothly;
32 At the last it bites like a serpent,
And stings like a viper.
33 Your eyes will see strange things,
And your heart will utter perverse things.
34 Yes, you will be like one who lies down in the [h]midst of the sea,
Or like one who lies at the top of the mast, saying:
35 “They have struck me, but I was not hurt;
They have beaten me, but I did not feel it.
When shall I awake, that I may seek another drink?
How does this relate to the passage cited in the OP?
 
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FireDragon76

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No religion "requires" anything, does it? Hinduism, which is exceedingly loosely composed really doesn't require a single thing, to my knowledge. In fact, one can say that even the most totalitarian system actually can't "require" anything of anyone without their acquiescence.

Now that we are playing that semantic game, how do you define "require" and what bearing does it actually have on the OP of this thread?

Jains eat a vegetarian diet that has more taboos than just not eating meat. They do consume dairy products sometimes.

Hindus do not eat cows, otherwise only the Brahmin caste or certain religious groups practice vegetarianism.
 
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RileyG

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People that eat vegetarian diets tend to have significantly high heart rate variability, which is a generally accepted biomarker for better stress adaptation, among other things. So perhaps White's words aren't so ridiculous after all.

At any rate, White's thoughts about meat eating were not entirely original. Sylvester Graham, a Presbyterian preacher, was a well-known advocate for vegetarianism and eating unrefined flour, and White was influenced by his teaching.
This is very true.

I have kidney disease and am diagnosed with secondary hypertension.

I would love to be vegetarian, but I cannot imagine giving up meat, especially chicken tenders or bacon. At the same time, I’m not interested in “meat alternatives.” Everything in moderation, I guess.

(I eat chicken and have cocktails on the daily. Oops)
 
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Jainism doesn't require Veganism. Neither does Hinduism (which are really two separate religions).
Not to ramble on, or argue with you it is my understanding that Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism (they are three separate religions) are all under the “Hindu umbrella” in India. (Sikhism is not since they are monotheistic).

Yes, I’m aware the exact origins of Hinduism are unknown and it’s a very diverse religion. Buddhism is no longer well spread in India, and it’s non-theistic, and Jainism is very small.

Essentially both Buddhism and Jainism “descended” from Hinduism.

Correct me if I’m mistaken.
 
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FireDragon76

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Not to ramble on, or argue with you it is my understanding that Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism (they are three separate religions) are all under the “Hindu umbrella” in India. (Sikhism is not since they are monotheistic).

Yes, I’m aware the exact origins of Hinduism are unknown and it’s a very diverse religion. Buddhism is no longer well spread in India, and it’s non-theistic, and Jainism is very small.

Essentially both Buddhism and Jainism “descended” from Hinduism.

Correct me if I’m mistaken.

Buddhism and Jainism are reinterpretations of the ancient Vedic religion in India, which was mostly centered around sacrifices at specific life stages and seasons, performed by priests (karma originally referred to the actions performed by a priest, both the Buddha and Mahavira reinterpreted the meaning of karma towards ethical behavior on the part of individuals).

It's more analogous to the relationship between Rabbinic Judaism and Christianity- they both went in separate directions, but both are descended from Second Temple Judaism.
 
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RileyG

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Buddhism and Jainism are reinterpretations of the ancient Vedic religion in India, which was mostly centered around sacrifices at specific life stages and seasons, performed by priests (karma originally referred to the actions performed by a priest, both the Buddha and Mahavira reinterpreted the meaning of karma towards ethical behavior on the part of individuals).

It's more analogous to the relationship between Rabbinic Judaism and Christianity- they both went in separate directions, but both are descended from Second Temple Judaism.
Thank you very much for your response! :) It is appreciated!
 
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FireDragon76

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This is very true.

I have kidney disease and am diagnosed with secondary hypertension.

I would love to be vegetarian, but I cannot imagine giving up meat, especially chicken tenders or bacon. At the same time, I’m not interested in “meat alternatives.” Everything in moderation, I guess.

(I eat chicken and have cocktails on the daily. Oops)

You could try eating more beans, as they have a lower renal acid load due to having more potassium and magnesium.
 
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RileyG

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You could try eating more beans, as they have a lower renal acid load due to having more potassium and magnesium. Maybe substitute beans for some wheat and grains, if you can't give up meat, as grains tend to not have as low acid load as beans and vegetables.
Thank you much for your suggestion!

I will see my kidney specialist in June, and I hope everything is ok.

I HAVE to change my eating habits, though. They've been awful.

Your knowledge is much appreciated :)

Take care
 
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Not to ramble on, or go off topic, I think it's generally assumed a majority of the general public eats meat, and those who are vegetarian or vegan are in the minority.

I do not necessarily know many Adventists in real life, other than one woman, a Methodist-to-SDA convert, who is a raging alcoholic in her early 60s, and was repeatedly abused by her (male) live-in partners.

It wasn't my understanding most SDA were vegetarians.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Not to ramble on, or argue with you it is my understanding that Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism (they are three separate religions) are all under the “Hindu umbrella” in India. (Sikhism is not since they are monotheistic).

Yes, I’m aware the exact origins of Hinduism are unknown and it’s a very diverse religion. Buddhism is no longer well spread in India, and it’s non-theistic, and Jainism is very small.

Essentially both Buddhism and Jainism “descended” from Hinduism.

Correct me if I’m mistaken.
That is my understanding, as well.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Not to ramble on, or go off topic, I think it's generally assumed a majority of the general public eats meat, and those who are vegetarian or vegan are in the minority.

I do not necessarily know many Adventists in real life, other than one woman, a Methodist-to-SDA convert, who is a raging alcoholic in her early 60s, and was repeatedly abused by her (male) live-in partners.

It wasn't my understanding most SDA were vegetarians.
Actually, vegetarianism seems to be one of the fundamental beliefs of the SDA. I have a friend (non SDA) who regularly attends the local SDA church. They have regular meals there, all of which are vegetarian and they make a point that a meat dish would not be welcomed at the potlucks. It is my understanding the Mrs. White went to great lengths to deliver her followers from a dreadful meat diet which, among other things, was believed to stir the "animal passions" so dreaded by Victorian prudes.

On a very personal note, there has been speculation regarding the marital relationship between Ellen and James White. It is a fact that they had no children. I suppose if anyone might have a claim to perpetual virginity, it might have been her.
 
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bbbbbbb

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It's about eating meat. I don't know. It is what it is
It began life simply as a thread about Mrs. White's rather peculiar interpretation of an OT passage which she took to impute moral weakness resulting from the consumption of meat. Within short order the thread morphed into a discussion of vegetarianism, pro and con, and took on a life of its own. I cannot remember anyone on this thread convincingly defending poor Mrs. White.
 
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HopeSings

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It began life simply as a thread about Mrs. White's rather peculiar interpretation of an OT passage which she took to impute moral weakness resulting from the consumption of meat. Within short order the thread morphed into a discussion of vegetarianism, pro and con, and took on a life of its own. I cannot remember anyone on this thread convincingly defending poor Mrs. White.
I feel sorry for us all. May God's grace shine on us.
 
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It wasn't my understanding most SDA were vegetarians.

Many Adventists are vegetarian. Nearly all Adventists, even if not vegetarian, will refrain from eating unclean foods listed in leviticus.
 
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