Ellen White indicates Miller's message of Jesus coming in 1843 was "heavenly".

[tall73]

Proof 9

IX . It can also be proved by Daniel xii . 11-13 : " And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away , and the abomination that maketh desolate set up , there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days . Blessed is he that waiteth , and cometh to the thou- sand three hundred and five and thirty days . But go thou thy way till the end be : for thou shalt rest , and stand in thy lot at the end of the days . " The number 1335 days , from the taking away of Rome Pagan , A. D. 508 , to set up Rome Papal , and the reign of Papacy , is 1290 days , which was exactly fulfilled in 1290 years , being fulfilled in 1798. This proves the 1335 days to be years , and that Daniel will stand in his lot in A. D. 1843. For proof texts , see Dan . xi . 31 : " And arms shall stand on his part , and they shall pollute the sanc- tuary of strength , and shall take away the daily sacrifice , and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate . " 2 Thess . ii . 6-8 : " And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time . For the mystery of iniquity doth already work : only he who now letteth will let , until he be taken out of the way . And then shall that Wicked be revealed , whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth , and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming . " Job xix . 25 : “ For I know that my Redeemer liveth , and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth . " ( See Miller's Lectures , p . 100. )

 

[tall73]

Proof 10

X. It can also be proved by the words of Christ , Luke xiii . 32 : " And he said unto them , Go ye and tell that fox , Behold , I cast out devils , and I do cures to - day and to - morrow , and the third day I shall be perfected . " These two days , in which Christ casts out devils and does cures , are the same as Hosea's two days , at the end of which , the devil will be chained , and cast out of the earth into the pit , and shut up . This will take 2000 years of the Roman power . Rev. xii . 9 : " And the great dragon was cast out , that old serpent , called the devil , and Satan , which deceiveth the whole world : he was cast out into the earth , and his angels were cast out with him . " And then the people of God will be perfected . Rev. xx . 9 : " Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection : on such the second death hath no power , but they shall be priests of God and of Christ , and shall reign with him a thousand years . " This time began with the " great dragon , " Rev. xii . 3 : " And there appeared another wonder in heaven ; and behold , a great red dragon , having seven heads and ten horns , and seven crowns upon his heads . And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven , and did cast them to the earth : and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered , for to devour her child as soon as it was born . " This government will draw after him one third part of the time , which wicked men have power in the earth , viz . , 6000 years ; and the 7000th , the year Christ will take possession and reign with his saints , in perfect bliss . This dragon power began its power over the saints when the league was made with him , B. C. 158 , -and will end in 1842. Then the third day will begin 1843. ( See Sec . Ad . Lib . No. 3 , page 61. )

 

[tall73]

Proof 11

XI . The trumpets are also a revelation of time . See Rev. ix . 5 : " And to them it was given that they should not kill them , but that they should be tormented five months : and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion , when he striketh a man . " These five months began when the Turks made incursions into the Greek territories , according to Gibbon , in the year 1299 , on the 27th day of July . 5 months is 150 years , 5x30 = 150 . This trumpet ended 1449. And the sixth trumpet began to sound , and was to sound 391 years and 15 days , as in Rev. ix . 15 : " And the four angels were loosed , which were prepared for an hour , and a day , and a month , and a year , for to slay the third part of men ; " and ended 1840 , on the 11th of August . Then the seventh trumpet begins , and ends with the fulness of times . Rev. x . 5 , 7 : " And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth , lifted up his hand to heaven , and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever , who created heaven , and the things that therein are , and the earth and the things that therein are , and the sea , and the things which are therein , that there should be time no longer : but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel , when he shall begin to sound , the mystery of God should be finished , as he hath declared to his servants the prophets . " And synchronizes with Daniel xii . 7 . See section 7 , where it is shown to end in the year 1843. ( See Mil- ler's Lectures , p . 190. )

 

[tall73]

Proof 12

XII . It can be proved by the two witnesses being clothed in sack- cloth 1260 years . See Rev. xi . 3 : " And I will give power unto my two witnesses , and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days , clothed in sackcloth . " This time began with Pa- pacy , 538 , and ended in 1798 , during which time the Bible was sup- pressed from the laity , in all the countries where Papacy had power , until the laws of the Papal hierarchy were abolished and free tolera- tion was granted to the Papal States in 1798. Then the remainder harmonizes with the trumpets : see Rev. xi . 14 , 15 : " The second wo is past ; and behold the third wo cometh quickly . And the seventh angel sounded ; and there were great voices in heaven , saying , The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord , and of his Christ ; and he shall reign for ever and ever . " And terminates with A. D. 1843. ( See Miller's Lectures , p . 190. )

 

[tall73]

Proof 13

XIII . It can be proved by Rev. xii . 6 , 14 : " And the woman fled into the wilderness , where she hath a place prepared of God , that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days . And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle , that she might fly into the wilderness , into her place , where she is nourished for a time , and times , and half a time , from the face of the serpent . " It is evident that the Church is not now in the wilderness , for if so , she must have been there in the apostles ' days , for she enjoys more liberty now among the nations , than in any previous time since the gospel was preached ; and it is very evident , for ages past , the true Church has been an outlaw among the kingdoms which arose out of the Roman Empire . The Church was driven into the wilder ness , where they were given into the power of the Pope , -Daniel vii .25 : " And he shall speak great words against the Most High , and shall wear out the saints of the Most High , and think to change times and laws and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time , ” - in the year A.D. 538 ; and was in the wilderness 1260 years , until 1798 , when free toleration was granted in the kingdoms in the Papal territory . This also harmonizes with the witnesses and the trumpet . Compare Rev. xi . 15 , " And the seventh angel sounded ; and there were great voices in heaven say- ing , The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord , and of his Christ ; and he shall reign for ever and ever , " with Rev. xii . 10 , " And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven , Now is come salvation , and strength , and the kingdom of our God , and the power of his Christ : for the accuser of our brethren is cast down which accused them before our God day and night . " ( See Miller's Lectures , p . 20. )

 

[tall73]

Proof 14

XIV . It is proved by Rev. xiii . 5 : " And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies ; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months . " This time began at the same time as the preceding , when power was given to the Pope by Justinian , A. D. 538 , and lasted until the Pope was carried into captivity , and his power abolished , in the year 1798. See 10th verse : " He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity : he that killeth with the sword , must be killed with the sword . Here is the patience and the faith of the saints . " This beast is the same as the little horn in Daniel 7th , and synchronizes with Daniel's " abomination that maketh desolate , " or " that astonisheth , " ( see marginal reading . ) Compare Daniel xi . 31 , and xii . 11 , with Rev. xiii . 3-8 ; and of course his power is abolished with the end of his " setting up , " and the 1290 years . Then Daniel xii . 12 , - " Blessed is he that waiteth , and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days , " carries us to the year 1843. ( See Miller's Lectures , p . 77.

 

[tall73]

Proof 15

XV . It can be proved by the numbers in Rev. xiii . 18 : " Here is wis- dom . Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast : for it is the number of a man ; and his number is six hundred three- score and six , " connected with Daniel xii . 12 , as before quoted . This text shows the number of years that Rome would exist under the blasphemous head of Paganism , after it was connected with the peo- ple of God by league ; beginning B. C. 158 , add 666 years , will bring us to A. D. 508 , when the daily sacrifice was taken away . Then add , Daniel xii . 12 , the 1335 to 508 , makes the year 1843. When the beast and his image will be tormented in the presence of the holy angels , and the Lamb . See Rev. xiv . 9-12 : " And the third angel followed them , saying with a loud voice , If any man worship the beast and his image , and receive his mark in his forehead , or in his hand , the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God , which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation ; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels , and in the presence of the Lamb : and the smoke of their tor- ment ascendeth up for ever and ever : and they have no rest day nor night , who worship the beast and his image , and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name . Here is the patience of the saints : here are they that keep the commandments of God , and the faith of Jesus . " ( See Miller's Lectures , p . 76. )

 

[BobRyan]

Ellen White, years after the failure of Jesus to return in 1843, indicated that the proclamation of Miller's message that Jesus was coming in 1843 was of God.

She also said the Palm Sunday proclamation by Christ's followers that He was about take His throne as king of the Jews -- was of God ... when in fact He was coming to be crucified.

Hmmm -- how "evil" ... or is this just another case of misinformation for the reader?

Very often these "hit pieces" reflect more about the authors lack of interest in Bible teaching on the very same subject than they do about Ellen White.

Why so much focus on all-Ellen-White-All-the-time - and so little on the Bible?

 

[tall73]

She also said the Palm Sunday proclamation by Christ's followers that He was about take His throne as king of the Jews -- was of God ... when in fact He was coming to be crucified.

Hmmm -- how "evil" ... or is this just another case of misinformation for the reader?

Very often these "hit pieces" reflect more about the authors lack of interest in Bible teaching on the very same subject than they do about Ellen White.

Why so much focus on all-Ellen-White-All-the-time - and so little on the Bible?

For those reading please note that Bob does not make any effort to correct the notion that Miller's message was "heavenly" according to Ellen White. Because he knows Ellen White taught this. She indicated that God designed to "test" people with a false, time setting message that Jesus was coming in 1843.

And he knows that Ellen White condemned those who rejected this message, though it was a false date-setting message.

And he knows the stated basis for their objection, which Ellen White admits, was the preaching of a definite time for Jesus coming, which they objected to because of the words of Jesus, and the Scriptures.

She also said the Palm Sunday proclamation by Christ's followers that He was about take His throne as king of the Jews -- was of God ... when in fact He was coming to be crucified.

Some reading along may be confused as to why Bob would make this statement about Palm Sunday. It is because the closest Bob can come to a defense of Ellen White on this matter is to compare her endorsement of Miller's failed time-setting message that went against Scripture to another message. He claims that the Palm Sunday message given by the disciples was false.

However, the message of Palm Sunday given by the disciples was a true message. Jesus is King. And He was about to take His throne. And the Bible text indicates that though the disciples did not know what they were doing, they nevertheless fulfilled the OT prophecy.

John 15:12 The next day a great multitude that had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 13 took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and cried out: “Hosanna!‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ The King of Israel!” 14 Then Jesus, when He had found a young donkey, sat on it; as it is written: 15 “Fear not, daughter of Zion; Behold, your King is coming, Sitting on a donkey’s colt.” 16 His disciples did not understand these things at first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written about Him and that they had done these things to Him.

John makes clear that they did not understand these things. They expected Him to immediately cast off the Romans and redeem Israel, as we know from Luke 24, and you have pointed out on other occasions.

Yet despite this their message was true. And Jesus said if they didn't give it the rocks would cry out.

Jesus declared that He is a King.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” 37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?” Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

And all the other gospels bear this out as well:

Matthew 27:11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.

Mark 15: 2 And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto them, Thou sayest it

Luke 23:3 And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.

Pilate put up a sign indicating it:

Matthew 27:11 And set up over his head his accusation written, This Is Jesus The King Of The Jews.

Jesus is a King, and that is why they said your King comes to you. The disciples gave a true message. And Jesus was rightly greeted as King.

And after the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples at Pentecost, they now understood as well the true message they gave. Peter explains that Jesus sat on the throne as the Christ, the Son of David. He was exalted to God's right hand:

Acts 2:30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. 34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, 35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

The message of the disciples was true.

But the message given by William Miller was not true. Jesus did not come in 1843, or 1844. And William Miller's message ignored the warnings in Scripture about setting dates for the return of Christ:

Matthew 24:4 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

I Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

 

[tall73]

Very often these "hit pieces" reflect more about the authors lack of interest in Bible teaching on the very same subject than they do about Ellen White.

We of course just had a conversation for days regarding the Scriptures Bob, in another thread.

This topic was posted so that people would know what Ellen White taught, and how it relates to the Adventist Church. You call it a hit piece. But you did not refute it.

It is mostly quoting her words, those of Miller, and those of the time who opposed Miller in regards to the false message of Miller that Jesus was coming in 1843.

There has been a lot of interest in the Seventh-day Adventist church in this section lately. And this thread discusses a critical component in the history of the Adventist Church, both in its development, but also later when Ellen White explained that development, in relation to Miller and his message.

 

[tall73]

Why so much focus on all-Ellen-White-All-the-time - and so little on the Bible?

The thread is not all about Ellen White. I highlighted Scripture early in the thread. And had Miller and Ellen White taken that Scripture to heart, there would have been no false message about Jesus coming in 1843.

Matthew 24:4 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

I Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Ellen White admits these Scriptures were repeated to the Millerites again and again.

------

They mocked and scoffed, repeating everywhere, "No man knoweth the day nor the hour." Evil angels urged them on to harden their hearts and to reject every ray of light from heaven, that they might be fastened in the snare of Satan.

The preaching of definite time called forth great opposition from all classes, from the minister in the pulpit down to the most reckless, heaven-daring sinner. "No man knoweth the day nor the hour," was heard from the hypocritical minister and the bold scoffer.

 

[prodromos]

Thank you for a most informative series of posts

 

[tall73]

Another quote from the work "Miller Overthrown", which was published in 1840 in response to Miller's views. He says the following about one of Miller's lectures:

----
In his very first lecture, he speaks of Christ's prophecy respecting the destruction of the temple, and quotes largely from the 24th chapter of Matthew, to prove that his views of a final day of judgment are orthodox. After giving us all which he thinks will strengthen his argument, he carefully omits the 36th verse:

But of that day and hour knoweth no man; no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Why does this great advocate of the Bible so lightly skip over the above verse? It came
directly in his way, and required an explanation.

 

[David Kent]

To give historical context, here are a few selections from ministers who wrote against Miller at the time.

Pastor Dowling, "An Exposition of the Prophecies Supposed by William Miller to Predict the Second Coming of Christ in 1843"

-------------------

I have frequently been asked if I believe Mr. Miller to be sincere. I have invariably answered in the affirmative. I cannot but suppose that Mr. M. is a pious, well-meaning man. I would advise him, in conclusion, if he would escape the distress I know it would cause him in his old age to have been unintentionally instrumental in the spread of infidelity, to go home and preach Christ crucified to perishing sinners, which I have no doubt he is qualified to do, and to waste no more of a life which might be valuable if rightly spent, in vainly attempting to make known those times and seasons which God hath wisely concealed from the ken of mortals, and "put into His own power."

-------------

Unnamed author of "Miller Overthrown"

-------------

Whether he has been first himself deceived, or whether he is wittingly practising a pious fraud, is known to the Searcher of hearts. I have but to point out sundry errors and weak places in his book; sufficient, however to destroy his credibility, but not to prove that the end of the word is distant; for "of that day knoweth no man"; and we are told that it is even hidden from the angels. If a man were to prophesy that, on a certain day during the next year, Washington city would be destroyed by an earthquake, who could positively declare the contrary? I pretend not to know that the world will survive the year 1843; but I think that Mr. William Miller knows as little about it as I do.

The Almighty has wisely hidden that day from us. Let the man who would rashly essay to raise the veil, ponder well upon the responsibility he assumes.

If Miller's calculations are correct, it is very evident that he is wiser than the angels, the prophets, the apostles, and the saints. It was an angel who was commanded to make Daniel understand the vision. Now, if that angel showed the prophet that the world would be destroyed in 2300 years, then is it not true, as Christ declared, that "of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
We are also informed that, "In such an hour as you think not, the Son of man cometh;" which will not be the case with the Millerites, if his prediction shall be fulfilled.

--------

They referenced the scriptures against time setting as the reason for their rejecting the message, and rightly so. The scriptures are clear that we should not set dates as Jesus' return will be at an hour we think not.

Matthew 24:4 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

I Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

But Ellen White condemned those who correctly applied these Scriptures:

-----

Many shepherds of the flock, who professed to love Jesus, said that they had no opposition to the preaching of Christ's coming, but they objected to the definite time. God's all-seeing eye read their hearts. They did not love Jesus near. They knew that their unchristian lives would not stand the test, for they were not walking in the humble path marked out by Him. These false shepherds stood in the way of the work of God. The truth spoken in its convincing power aroused the people, and like the jailer, they began to inquire, "What must I do to be saved?" But these shepherds stepped in between the truth and the people, and preached smooth things to lead them from the truth. They united with Satan and his angels, crying, "Peace, peace," when there was no peace.


Those who loved their ease and were content with their distance from God would not be aroused from their carnal security. I saw that angels of God marked it all; the garments of those unconsecrated shepherds were covered with the blood of souls.

Ministers who would not accept this saving message themselves hindered those who would have received it. The blood of souls is upon them.

-----

So in Ellen White's view, the pastors who said that you shouldn't specify the time of Jesus' coming, quoting Scripture, were rejecting the saving message of Miller that Jesus was coming in 1843, and later 1844. And the reason they did so was because they didn't really love Jesus.


According to Ellen White the ministers who warned against Miller's date setting were condemned--for standing on the words of Jesus. But those who believed Millers false message were doing what God wanted.

From the millerites came the SDA and from the SDA came the Watchtower organisation. Charles Taze Russell came through the millerites via the SDA to found the watchtower. They have all made false prophecies as have the Armstrongs, H W Armstrong first founded the Church Of God Seventh Day, later to become the Radio Church of God, then the Worldwide Church of God. The have all made false prophecies the last two about the year 1975.

One false prophecy makes a false prophet.

 

[tall73]

From the millerites came the SDA and from the SDA came the Watchtower organisation. Charles Taze Russell came through the millerites via the SDA to found the watchtower. They have all made false prophecies as have the Armstrongs, H W Armstrong first founded the Church Of God Seventh Day, later to become the Radio Church of God, then the Worldwide Church of God. The have all made false prophecies the last two about the year 1975.

One false prophecy makes a false prophet.

And it is even stranger to endorse a failed prophecy after the fact, as Ellen White did in this case!

As to Russell I don't have a lot of background on the topic, but the influence from the millerites was indirect, given he was born after the movement, but it sounds like he did have some interactions with those who had been part of it, and their writings.

This Ministry magazine article relates a key interaction with SDA's:

Watch Tower's Debt to Seventh-day Adventism: A Fascinating Footnote to History

SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISM and the Jehovah's Witnesses movement are of ten confused in the thinking of the public, which sometimes sees them as one and the same organization, partially perhaps because of some superficial similarities. . .

www.ministrymagazine.org

 

[Gary K]

I will not answer every one of your posts. I will give one answer that pretty much should satisfy your overall theme.

In the middle of His discourse to His disciples on end time events Jesus stops and tells two parables, The parable of the 10 virgins and the parable of the talents. Why?

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

To what purpose did Jesus tell this? And what does it mean that 5 of the virgins took enough oil to last and 5 didn't? This obviously takes place before the second coming as when Jesus comes the second time He comes with everu man's reward. Why does He tell the 5 foolish virgins He doesn't know them? God's church is a;ways referred to as a virgin in prophecy so these 10 virgins were obviously His followers. Oil is represented as the HS.

Psa_45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb_1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

So 5 virgins had enough of the HS to be represented as wise and the rest did not. The 5 foolish virgins were locked out of heaven as Jesus told them He didn't know them.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So not knowing God, personally, is fatal to our chances of heaven. This is where righteousness by faith comes in.

This parable is the explanation of the investigative judgement now going on in heaven. No other explanation fits.

As to the missed time every denomination at that time believed the sanctuary was the earth. And how many prophet understood everything about their visions and dreams? None that I know of besides Jesus.

 

[Aaron112]

I saw the people of God joyful in expectation, looking for their Lord. But God designed to prove them. His hand covered a mistake in the reckoning of the prophetic periods. Those who were looking for their Lord did not discover this mistake, and the most learned men who opposed the time also failed to see it. God designed that His people should meet with a disappointment.

Anything at all wrong with this ?

 

[prodromos]

Oil is represented as the HS.

The oil represents their good works, not the Holy Spirit.

 

[tall73]

I will not answer every one of your posts. I will give one answer that pretty much should satisfy your overall theme.

In the middle of His discourse to His disciples on end time events Jesus stops and tells two parables, The parable of the 10 virgins and the parable of the talents. Why?

He tells more than two parables. And the parables fit the discourse. Starting in 24:36:

Matthew 2436 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.​

He indicates no man knows that day and hour. Had the Millerites followed this there would be no Millerite message of Jesus coming in 1843/44 and eventually October 22, 1844.

He then applies this further:

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.​

You don't know when the Lord will come. It will happen when people are not aware.

Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.​

Since you don't know when the Lord is coming you must be ready.

Matthew 24:45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.​

The servant who is faithful will be rewarded by the Master. The evil servant will not be found ready, and the Lord will come at a time he is not aware of, and when he is not looking for him. This servant is cut in two and shares the fate of the hypocrites.

So we have direct teaching indicating the time of the Lord's coming is not known. And we have two parables that warn to be ready. It is with that in mind we encounter the two parables that you mention.

Matthew 25:1 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. 6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. 11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.​

The last line ties this to the other parables, and gives the point. The foolish virgins, like the previous servant, were not ready. They did not know the time of Jesus' coming, and were shut out.

We have to be ready and doing what the Lord said at all times. We do not know when He will come. This was reiterated throughout the passage. Miller stated Jesus was coming in 1843, 1844, and eventually settling on Oct. 22, 1844. That message went completely against this whole section. You are not ready by knowing the hour. Because Jesus said expressly you will not know the hour. The timing of Jesus' coming is not known. You have to be ready.

The parable of the talents again emphasizes doing what the Lord asked. They are to be ready.

To what purpose did Jesus tell this? And what does it mean that 5 of the virgins took enough oil to last and 5 didn't? This obviously takes place before the second coming as when Jesus comes the second time He comes with everu man's reward. Why does He tell the 5 foolish virgins He doesn't know them? God's church is a;ways referred to as a virgin in prophecy so these 10 virgins were obviously His followers. Oil is represented as the HS.

So 5 virgins had enough of the HS to be represented as wise and the rest did not. The 5 foolish virgins were locked out of heaven as Jesus told them He didn't know them.

The passage means what Jesus says it does. He states the point clearly:

Matthew 25:13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.​

You have to be ready. It is the same theme throughout the passage.

So not knowing God, personally, is fatal to our chances of heaven. This is where righteousness by faith comes in.

Certainly not having faith in Christ is fatal. The parable is explained. We do not know when Jesus is coming (Miller should have seen this all around the passage), and so we must always be ready, and be doing what He entrusted us to do.

This parable is the explanation of the investigative judgement now going on in heaven. No other explanation fits.

Sorry but Jesus stated the point plainly. So I am going with what He stated rather than your interpretation reading in later Adventist doctrine. The five foolish virgins were not ready when He came.

Moreover, Miller's message was not the investigative judgment. And the investigative judgment developed gradually over time in the Adventist church, being largely accepted by the 1850's. We see James White for instance rejecting it prior. A version of the investigative judgment had been suggested by a Millerite, but with some different details, and was not the message of the Millerite movement.

So this does not speak to the problem the thread presents. Miller preached Jesus would return to earth in 1843, and 1844, and eventually settled on October 22, 1844 (though this last was not Miller's idea, but he did eventually accept it as well). That was the message that was given. And it was a false, time-setting message that rejected the words of Christ. It did not come to pass.

As to the missed time every denomination at that time believed the sanctuary was the earth.

Ellen White said this,

Great Controversy, chapter 23​

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"In common with the rest of the Christian world, Adventists then held that the earth, or some portion of it, was the sanctuary."​

But this is demonstrably untrue. Here are just a few commentators from the time leading up to 1844 that did in fact know where the sanctuary was. And the reason they knew was because they had read the book of Hebrews.

Matthew Henry:

Hebrews 9 - Henry's Complete Commentary on the Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Hebrews 9, Henry's Complete Commentary on the Bible, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary, filling six volumes, provides an exhaustive look at every verse in the Bible.

www.studylight.org

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Christ, our high priest, has entered into heaven, not as their high priest entered into the holiest, with the blood of bulls and of goats, but by his own blood, typified by theirs, and infinitely more precious. And this,​

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Not for one year only, which showed the imperfection of that priesthood, that it did but typically obtain a year's reprieve or pardon. But our high priest entered into heaven once for all, and has obtained not a yearly respite, but eternal redemption, and so needs not to make an annual entrance.​

Robert Haldane:

Hebrews 9 - Haldane's Exposition on the Epistle to the Romans and Hebrews - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Hebrews 9, Haldane's Exposition on the Epistle to the Romans and Hebrews, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary is one of the most respected interdenominational commentaries ever written.

www.studylight.org

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He is set at the right hand of the majesty in the heavens. Hebrews 8:1. This is the sanctuary of which He is minister. This is the true tabernacle into which He has entered by His own blood.​

Albert Barnes:

Hebrews 9 - Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Hebrews 9, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary by Albert Barnes, a dedicated student of the Bible, continues to be very popular even today.

www.studylight.org

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By a greater and more perfect tabernacle - The meaning is, that Christ officiated as high priest in a much more magnificent and perfect temple than either the tabernacle or the temple under the old dispensation. He performed the great functions of his priestly office - the sprinkling of the blood of the atonement - in heaven itself, of which the most holy place in the tabernacle was but the emblem.​

 

[tall73]

quote from Early Writings:

I saw the people of God joyful in expectation, looking for their Lord. But God designed to prove them. His hand covered a mistake in the reckoning of the prophetic periods. Those who were looking for their Lord did not discover this mistake, and the most learned men who opposed the time also failed to see it. God designed that His people should meet with a disappointment.

Anything at all wrong with this ?

Let's start with what is NOT wrong about it.

- It is good to be looking for the Lord to come, and joyful in expectation.

- There was an inaccuracy in the calculations as there is no zero year.


What was wrong with it was that they should not have been trying to calculate the time of Jesus' coming in the first place, because the Scriptures plainly indicate that the time is unknown. Rather we are to be ready at all times, looking for the Lord.

Matthew 24:44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.​

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1 Thessalonians 5:1But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be [a]sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. 11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.​

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And of course, it is wrong for them to blame God for them being disappointed by a thought that was already ruled out by the words of Jesus. They were disappointed because they engaged in unbiblical date-setting regarding the return of Christ.