Do you support abortion?

[Jesse Dornfeld]

I would not choose an abortion except maybe to save my own life, BUT I do feel that early term abortion should be a legal option say before 12 or 16 weeks for the reason that people will do it anyway and without a legal option it would be even more dangerous for the mom than it already is. also feel though that adoption should also be presented as more of an option if a woman does not want the baby instead of pushing abortion.

Making laws for (or against) something does have an effect on breaking the law. Otherwise, why do we have laws for anything?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Making laws for (or against) something does have an effect on breaking the law. Otherwise, why do we have laws for anything?

Certain laws carry more risks than others if enforced v not. Also, one could make the argument that early-term abortion is really a victimless crime as even if you believe that life begins at conception there is still a certain amount of development that must take place for that life to be viable outside the mother. On the other hand if the mother tries to preform an abortion without medical assistance that could be fatal to her or the very least very dangerous ( even if the baby would not be viable).

Same reason that oftentimes particularly in more liberal districts DAS will not charge a murder count if a woman is not far enough along for the baby to have lived and something happens to the mom because the idea is you can not kill a "person" that is not viable and could not have lived.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Not all women who become pregnant have been willing agents in that process.

Can you imagine a woman who lived, say 1400 years ago, and who was raped, then having to contemplate not just the horror of her rape experience but also having to face the possibility (30% +/-) of dying while in labor with that child?

I can't. And as a man, I'm not going to speak for women. All I'm going to do ethically is take into consideration our modern medical knowledge and ask how we can help women who are facing serious physical or psychological risks in relation to their current preganancies.

Rape only accounts for 2% of all abortion cases, so if we're going to base an entire motive of killing a baby off of 2% that doesn't seem reasonable

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Rape only accounts for 2% of all abortion cases, so if we're going to base an entire motive of killing a baby off of 2% that doesn't seem reasonable

You're right. It's not reasonable. But, can you see how what you're saying here is irrelevant to all that I've thus far stated in this thread?

I don't support abortion. In fact, nowhere in this entire thread have I said I do. So, maybe don't talk at me as if I do ???

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Certain laws carry more risks than others if enforced v not. Also, one could make the argument that early-term abortion is really a victimless crime as even if you believe that life begins at conception there is still a certain amount of development that must take place for that life to be viable outside the mother. On the other hand if the mother tries to preform an abortion without medical assistance that could be fatal to her or the very least very dangerous ( even if the baby would not be viable).

Same reason that oftentimes particularly in more liberal districts DAS will not charge a murder count if a woman is not far enough along for the baby to have lived and something happens to the mom because the idea is you can not kill a "person" that is not viable and could not have lived.

The only way this argument makes sense is if the life is not a person. One major problem with that: we don't kill people who are mentally deficient and they technically would also not fit the definition of personhood.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

You're right. It's not reasonable. But, can you see how what you're saying here is irrelevant to all that I've thus far stated in this thread?

I don't support abortion. In fact, nowhere in this entire thread have I said I do. So, maybe don't talk at me as if I do ???

Sorry to offend you i understood you saying

Not all women who become pregnant have been willing agents in that process.

Can you imagine a woman who lived, say 1400 years ago, and who was raped, then having to contemplate not just the horror of her rape experience but also having to face the possibility (30% +/-) of dying while in labor with that child?

I can't...

to mean you were somehow giving a case as to when abortion would be ok, such as in rape cases, so please don't attack me for the way I read your post.

And your statement of

But, can you see how what you're saying here is irrelevant to all that I've thus far stated in this thread?

Makes no sense when i literally WAS addressing what you said in the quote. So it actually was relevant.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Sorry to offend you i understood you saying

to mean you were somehow giving a case as to when abortion would be ok, such as in rape cases, so please don't attack me for the way I read your post.

Well, in the case of a rape, then YES, the victimized woman should be entitled to immediate treatment if she so desires.

And your statement of


Makes no sense when i literally WAS addressing what you said in the quote. So it actually was relevant.

Ok. Now that you have further qualifed your statement, maybe it can be said to slightly address some nuance of what I've said in this thread so far.

BUT AGAIN, my making an exception for an abortion which is to ONLY apply to less than 1 or 2 percent of the most extreme cases of either physical risk (e.g. ectoptic pregnancy) or extreme duress and trauma (e.g. a rape victim) should NOT be construed in any shape, way, form or other manipulated semantic contrivance [or through other conflations] that I "actually" support abortion.

My saying that there can be exceptional cases for 1, maybe 2, percent of the female population in absolutely no way infers that somehow I'm condoning instances where the other 98%-99% percent of women may want an abortion because they couldn't keep themselves morally together and now want out of their situation as mothers.

So........................................................................................No, I do not support abortion.

And, what's more, it's not my fault that the OP Poll is semantically rigged and tilted ...

 

[stevevw]

Not all women who become pregnant have been willing agents in that process.

Can you imagine a woman who lived, say 1400 years ago, and who was raped, then having to contemplate not just the horror of her rape experience but also having to face the possibility (30% +/-) of dying while in labor with that child?

I can't. And as a man, I'm not going to speak for women. All I'm going to do ethically is take into consideration our modern medical knowledge and ask how we can help women who are facing serious physical or psychological risks in relation to their current preganancies.

Yes it is hard for blokes to contemplate let alone understand. It just goes to show how hard life was back then.

Medical advancement has brought up many ethical dilemmas that we have to think hard about.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Well, in the case of a rape, then YES, the victimized woman should be entitled to immediate treatment if she so desires.


Ok. Now that you have further qualifed your statement, maybe it can be said to slightly address some nuance of what I've said in this thread so far.

BUT AGAIN, my making an exception for an abortion which is to ONLY apply to less than 1 or 2 percent of the most extreme cases of either physical risk (e.g. ectoptic pregnancy) or extreme duress and trauma (e.g. a rape victim) should NOT be construed in any shape, way, form or other manipulated semantic contrivance [or through other conflations] that I "actually" support abortion.

My saying that there can be exceptional cases for 1, maybe 2, percent of the female population in absolutely no way infers that somehow I'm condoning instances where the other 98%-99% percent of women may want an abortion because they couldn't keep themselves morally together and now want out of their situation as mothers.

So........................................................................................No, I do not support abortion.

And, what's more, it's not my fault that the OP Poll is semantically rigged and tilted ...

fair, apologies for the misunderstanding

 

[dogs4thewin]

The only way this argument makes sense is if the life is not a person. One major problem with that: we don't kill people who are mentally deficient and they technically would also not fit the definition of personhood.

Why not? unless the person's body was not developed enough why would they not

 

[BNR32FAN]

I suppose you are one of the lucky apostles of Jesus then, eh?

Nowhere in the scriptures does it say that everyone supported His crucifixion. Even Pontiff Pilot himself didn’t want to crucify Jesus which is why he made several attempts to release him.

 

[fhansen]

Just wondering what the percentages are for supporting or condemning abortion.

I myself feel it is the worst thing in human history since the Holocaust.

Do women who have had an abortion need grace (both from us and from our savior)? Of course! Reach out with compassion to these women. After all, we were there crucifying our messiah. If we were there we would not have done differently than the Pharisees, or political powers, or crowds even. We are guilty of the murder of Christ. As such, we should have compassion for women who know they did something wrong in having an abortion. There is forgiveness in Christ.

I'm leaving alone whether women or doctors involved in an abortion should be prosecuted. It may be at some future point in history but doesn't seem like a likely majority for some time (much like chattel slavery).

I probably will not vote in this poll.

Christians do not support abortion. If there are mitigating cirmcumstances they come after the fact and understanding that life can only begin at conception-and that God, alone, has the right to give and to take it.

 

[trophy33]

Its complicated.

While I think that all Christians are against "yes, for any reason any time" (which is illegal in almost all countries in the world, anyway), real life gets to be quite complex regarding the rest of options.

Morality/necessity would need to be judged specifically for individual cases, I guess.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Just wondering what the percentages are for supporting or condemning abortion.

I myself feel it is the worst thing in human history since the Holocaust.

Do women who have had an abortion need grace (both from us and from our savior)? Of course! Reach out with compassion to these women. After all, we were there crucifying our messiah. If we were there we would not have done differently than the Pharisees, or political powers, or crowds even. We are guilty of the murder of Christ. As such, we should have compassion for women who know they did something wrong in having an abortion. There is forgiveness in Christ.

I'm leaving alone whether women or doctors involved in an abortion should be prosecuted. It may be at some future point in history but doesn't seem like a likely majority for some time (much like chattel slavery).

I probably will not vote in this poll.

Abortion is commonly considered the last resort of contraception, but biblically it was just a modern form of child sacrifice. Contrary of popular belief and state propraganda, the vast majority of abortions are performed on blacks and hispanics, and the real beneficiaries of abortion are the dead beat fathers who would otherwise be held responsible to pay alimony for the next 18 years; it greatly emboldens and encourages them to have a casual roll in the hay without any consequences, if he knocks up the woman, Planned Parenthood will fix it. This is pure evil, which every true follower of Christ should stand against. You may hear the cliched arguments on cases of rape, incest, birth defect, or mother's life in danger, but those are very rare, with the advancement of modern technology none of these is an excuse that leaves abortion as the only option, your opponent is blowing it out of proportion.

 

[xser88]

I'm assuming you're speaking of supporting the choice to have an abortion, I've never heard anyone say abortion is a good thing. My spouse and I don't practice abortion, and I do believe it's ending a possible life. But I don't support the government forcing all pregnancies to their full 9 month term, even in cases of rape, incest, or where the mother's life is in danger. I don't support the government forcing the mother to continue where the child will be born with great deformities. Or when the child will only have a short life filled with suffering. I support abortion when a fetus has lethal congenital abnormalities. I support abortion in ectopic pregnancy, that's when the egg develops outside of the womb, usually in one of the fallopian tubes. An ectopic embryo will not survive and the pregnancy will miscarry. The consequences of an ectopic pregnancy can be serious and even life-threatening. There's about half a dozen scenarios where abortion can be lifesaving. I do believe abortion is used largely as a wedge issue for political reasons these days. Many people that call themselves pro-lifers are seen as hypocrites. The same group won't speak up when we start unnecessary wars that leave hundreds of thousands dead. They don't support stronger gun control laws. Now the Jewish religious culture believes life begins when a baby can breathe separate from the mother. They get this from the bible verse in Genesis 2:7: And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. These pro-lifers will condemn any funds going to Planned Parenthood, because some funds might fund an abortion. But we give the Israeli government billions of our tax dollars each year. The Israeli government has been funding and performing thousands of abortions each year for decades. But because of political affiliations and a misunderstanding of bible prophecy, these same so called pro-lifers are silent about American tax dollars supporting these abortions. Non-beliebers see this as hypocrisy. Same with this group identifying with being pro-life, but hate and racism is not a deal-breaker for them. 1 John 4:20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. It appears they're for pro birth, but not so much life after birth.

Its like, whoever claims to love the fetus yet hates some people is a liar. For whoever does not love people, whom they have seen, cannot love the fetus, whom they have not seen. Ultrasound isn't seeing a person and making a judgment. All fetuses look the same, embryos for humans and other animals often look alike at certain developmental stages. Loving your neighbors would involve loving others with all different characteristics, shapes, sizes, and colors. Like the story of the good Samaritan, which represents a true Christian. After two religious individuals past by the beaten man, a man whose race despised the victim's race and vice versa, helped him. The victim didn't ask for help, he looked different, spoke a different language, had a different culture. People see these pro-lifers supporting all these anti-immigration policies. They see them claiming pro-life, but not standing up to immigration policies like separating refugee mothers and others from children and putting them in cages at the height of the pandemic. Christian pro-lifers today hurt the message of Christianity with their moral inconsistencies and extreme positions. Showing grisly graphic photos of aborted fetuses did a lot to change the attitude about abortion.

Do you think pro-lifers would support publicly showing graphic photos of children, victims of gun violence to change the public's attitude about gun violence? I wouldn't because they wouldn't have the permission of the victims, and it would be too much to ask of family members. But my point is, and I could be wrong, but don't think most pro-lifers would support such tactics because of their lacked position on guns.

I'm pro life for all lives and the right for individuals, their families and doctors to make decisions on abortion.

 

[Diamond7]

I interpreted your poll to mean "do you support the right to choose abortion?

Life is always the right choice. But do we have the right to make that choice for people? What if they do not want to commit to raising that child. Are we willing to pay the $15,000 per year per child that had to go into foster care when foster care has been show to be substandard? It is easy to say choose life, but that can be difficult for some people.

The child goes to Heaven. The question is do the parents go to heaven. If they do then they have to be reconciled with their child.

 

[Diamond7]

I've never heard anyone say abortion is a good thing.

The Nazi believed that people had to be productive members of society to have the right to life. Of course who gets to decide who is productive and who is not a productive contributing member of society?

 

[Diamond7]

There are times in the third trimester where a mother's life is on the line.

This really has nothing to do with abortion. If her life is on the line, then she is in a hospital not an abortion clinic. Although this is an issue now because doctors are willing to wait for the baby to abort itself rather than to take the risk doing an abortion right now.

 

[Paidiske]

This really has nothing to do with abortion.

It does, given that the other poster claimed "there are zero reasons to abort a child to save the mother's life in the 3rd trimester." That kind of blatant untruth doesn't help anybody.

Although this is an issue now because doctors are willing to wait for the baby to abort itself rather than to take the risk doing an abortion right now.

Exactly. Or perhaps better stated, doctors are less willing to risk life-saving treatment for the mother if it might mean they are sued over the death of the foetus.

 

[Diamond7]

It does, given that the other poster claimed "there are zero reasons to abort a child to save the mother's life in the 3rd trimester." That kind of blatant untruth doesn't help anybody.

If you have three doctors, you will have four opinions.