What exactly is the law?

[Eseven]

OK, but I see no relationship to your verses unless you are trying to say we are obligated to the law.

bugkiller

We are obligated to fulfill the law it seems.

 

[Harry3142]

bugkiller-

'The law' as we know it today refers to the 613 laws and commandments found in Torah, and listed by Rabbi Maimonides. However, at the time of Christ's coming among us there were literally several thousand other laws attached to these 613.

The Sadducees of the 1st century didn't believe in an afterlife or a resurrection, because neither was to be found in Torah. For this reason their branch of Judaism stayed with the basic 613 laws and commandments of Torah. However, the Pharisees, another branch of Judaism which St. Paul himself was a member of, did believe in the resurrection.

But this posed a problem. The Pharisees, like the Sadducees, saw the laws and commandments of Torah in their initial form as purely societal in nature, rather than their being salvific. So in order to convert these societal laws into salvific laws they needed to add other laws to them in subsets which were attached to each law and commandment of Torah. According to my Jewish sources there were over 1,000 additional laws attached to the Sabbath commandment alone, and in order to obey this commandment in a manner that would ensure their earning salvation, they had to obey all 1,000+ laws that had been attached to it. The other laws and commandments had their own subsets attached to them, so the number of laws which the people were taught that they needed to obey in order to be righteous in 1st century Judea ran well into the 10's of thousands.

 

[bugkiller]

bugkiller-

'The law' as we know it today refers to the 613 laws and commandments found in Torah, and listed by Rabbi Maimonides. However, at the time of Christ's coming among us there were literally several thousand other laws attached to these 613.

The Sadducees of the 1st century didn't believe in an afterlife or a resurrection, because neither was to be found in Torah. For this reason their branch of Judaism stayed with the basic 613 laws and commandments of Torah. However, the Pharisees, another branch of Judaism which St. Paul himself was a member of, did believe in the resurrection.

But this posed a problem. The Pharisees, like the Sadducees, saw the laws and commandments of Torah in their initial form as purely societal in nature, rather than their being salvific. So in order to convert these societal laws into salvific laws they needed to add other laws to them in subsets which were attached to each law and commandment of Torah. According to my Jewish sources there were over 1,000 additional laws attached to the Sabbath commandment alone, and in order to obey this commandment in a manner that would ensure their earning salvation, they had to obey all 1,000+ laws that had been attached to it. The other laws and commandments had their own subsets attached to them, so the number of laws which the people were taught that they needed to obey in order to be righteous in 1st century Judea ran well into the 10's of thousands.

And they still failed.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

We are obligated to fulfill the law it seems.

How can this be? I and others have both quoted and refered to Rom 7:6 many times.

bugkiller

 

[Eseven]

How can this be? I and others have both quoted and refered to Rom 7:6 many times.

bugkiller

.

Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Ro 7:14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Ro 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

 

[fhansen]

.

Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Ro 7:14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Ro 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Right, it's impossible to live up to God's will for man unless we're Spiritual-led by the Spirit, under grace. The alternative is to be under the law, where even the strictest obedience would be a pretense at best-with the law remaining unfulfilled in point of fact.

 

[Eseven]

Right, it's impossible to live up to God's will for man unless we're Spiritual-led by the Spirit, under grace. The alternative is to be under the law, where even the strictest obedience would be a pretense at best-with the law remaining unfulfilled in point of fact.

For me the law is good. I grow tired of this debate. I don''t believe Christians need to observe Sabbath or Moses law, however the things taught by the Lords apostles come from the law. Its my duty to serve Christ by obeying Him and the apostles, you all can do whatever you want. This law debating makes me ill. I just want to discus the law of Christ, not the SDA, EO, RCc, Moses or whatever.

G'night folks.

 

[fhansen]

For me the law is good. I grow tired of this debate. I don''t believe Christians need to observe Sabbath or Moses law, however the things taught by the Lords apostles come from the law. Its my duty to serve Christ by obeying Him and the apostles, you all can do whatever you want. This law debating makes me ill. I just want to discus the law of Christ, not the SDA, EO, RCc, Moses or whatever.

G'night folks.

Yes, I agree. The law, which Jesus summed up with the greatest commandments, cannot be faulted-and we're still obligated to observe them.

But, in the New Covenant, we're to observe the law by the Spirit, rather than by the letter. This is not a distinction between whether or not we must obey the law- it's a distinction between how we're to obey the law: either with grace (possible), or without grace (impossible). This begins with faith, which pleases God; faith is both a response to grace and a means to more grace that God gives to enable us to do His will. So faith isn't at odds with the law-it's simply the authentic pathway to fulilling it, by the Spirit.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by fhansen

Right, it's impossible to live up to God's will for man unless we're Spiritual-led by the Spirit, under grace. The alternative is to be under the law, where even the strictest obedience would be a pretense at best-with the law remaining unfulfilled in point of fact.
​

For me the law is good. I grow tired of this debate. I don''t believe Christians need to observe Sabbath or Moses law, however the things taught by the Lords apostles come from the law. Its my duty to serve Christ by obeying Him and the apostles, you all can do whatever you want. This law debating makes me ill.
I just want to discus the law of Christ, not the SDA, EO, RCc, Moses or whatever.

Then let's do it.........

Gal 6:2
of one another the burdens bear ye, and so fill up the law of the Christ,



.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

bugkiller-

'The law' as we know it today refers to the 613 laws and commandments found in Torah, and listed by Rabbi Maimonides. However, at the time of Christ's coming among us there were literally several thousand other laws attached to these 613.

The Sadducees of the 1st century didn't believe in an afterlife or a resurrection, because neither was to be found in Torah. For this reason their branch of Judaism stayed with the basic 613 laws and commandments of Torah. However, the Pharisees, another branch of Judaism which St. Paul himself was a member of, did believe in the resurrection.

But this posed a problem. The Pharisees, like the Sadducees, saw the laws and commandments of Torah in their initial form as purely societal in nature, rather than their being salvific. So in order to convert these societal laws into salvific laws they needed to add other laws to them in subsets which were attached to each law and commandment of Torah.

According to my Jewish sources there were over 1,000 additional laws attached to the Sabbath commandment alone, and in order to obey this commandment in a manner that would ensure their earning salvation, they had to obey all 1,000+ laws that had been attached to it.
The other laws and commandments had their own subsets attached to them, so the number of laws which the people were taught that they needed to obey in order to be righteous in 1st century Judea ran well into the 10's of thousands.

That sure sounds complex.

Makes me glad I am not a Jew.


.

 

[SG9]

I did not use the large blue letters in my title because I think they all appear in black and same text size.

It seems to me there is some dispute what the law is. Does "the" word have a specific or limiting meaning to a word following it? Is the law the all inclusive law of God? In this case are the grammer rules of English and Greek different? I wish to have demonstrated through text what the truth is.

bugkiller

Hi,

In simple term, the Law is in question as to which law? One may question the Law of Yahweh while looking from a gentile mind, which is reversed law, and it forms the character of the individual.

In the case of Creation, the Law was defined in characteristic order and then used to Create all of Creation. G-d's law is written in all that He created, and like magnets where the opposite poles are attracted, and visa verse.

If the Law is upright then, all of Creation is in paradise but this changed with the gentile age of mankind, which is of this world, today. This is what we will be saved from.

The adversary flips the upright law that is written in human form to create a monstrous being that opposes G-d because it then is a reflection of Satan. The devil mimics all of G-d's works, and in reverse order.

The Law of G-d, which is Truth was defined in Spirit form first so to be installed/written in G-d's creation of humankind, and if we have not His Law we then are nothing but dead spirit manifest in flesh.

We cannot do away with the Law of G-d or else we evolve into extinction, which is the path that we are on now until we see the Lord come and believe on Him, and His Law. The gentile nation will be grafted into the Tree of Life so that it may bear good fruits, instead of bad fruits which are poisonous to the soul.

Thanks

 

[from scratch]

Hi,

In simple term, the Law is in question as to which law? One may question the Law of Yahweh while looking from a gentile mind, which is reversed law, and it forms the character of the individual.

In the case of Creation, the Law was defined in characteristic order and then used to Create all of Creation. G-d's law is written in all that He created, and like magnets where the opposite poles are attracted, and visa verse.

If the Law is upright then, all of Creation is in paradise but this changed with the gentile age of mankind, which is of this world, today. This is what we will be saved from.

The adversary flips the upright law that is written in human form to create a monstrous being that opposes G-d because it then is a reflection of Satan. The devil mimics all of G-d's works, and in reverse order.

The Law of G-d, which is Truth was defined in Spirit form first so to be installed/written in G-d's creation of humankind, and if we have not His Law we then are nothing but dead spirit manifest in flesh.

We cannot do away with the Law of G-d or else we evolve into extinction, which is the path that we are on now until we see the Lord come and believe on Him, and His Law. The gentile nation will be grafted into the Tree of Life so that it may bear good fruits, instead of bad fruits which are poisonous to the soul.

Thanks

I see Lambster must be bored again or is lonely for bugkiller. Both are possibilities.

The first thing I see is you're talking about a part of the law. I just don't see that in the OP.

What is reverse law?

What changed with the gentile age of man? There were no Jews or Israel for how long? So everyone was a gentile.

Now who is trying to do away with God's law (whatever you're saying it is)? You must be talking about something else besides the law as bugkiller says. You are saying something about the law of God. Is this is different from the law bugkiller talks about.

 

[from scratch]

What? no come backs.

 

[SG9]

What? no come backs.

Patience, my friend. My Internet dropped earlier today and is just now back but don't know how long. Every time the winds blow we lose the Internet, albeit my local line is underground. The whole town looses it, too.

I'll reply to your questions in my next post.

 

[SG9]

I see Lambster must be bored again or is lonely for bugkiller. Both are possibilities.

The first thing I see is you're talking about a part of the law. I just don't see that in the OP.

What is reverse law?

What changed with the gentile age of man? There were no Jews or Israel for how long? So everyone was a gentile.

Now who is trying to do away with God's law (whatever you're saying it is)? You must be talking about something else besides the law as bugkiller says. You are saying something about the law of God. Is this is different from the law bugkiller talks about.

You asked many questions, which will confuse you by answer so I'll address my main point again, and expound on what the "reversal" in law is concerning. It's actually a spiritual flip of the spirit within the body/flesh while the flesh still stands on it's natural feet. This is imagery spoken in contextual language by the prophets interpreted for your edification so please, put your pride aside and read what I write, and especially the scripture references; nothing personal.

The general idea is to imagine a spiritual clone of yourself as a man within a man, like a wheel within a wheel, so to speak. The flesh is seen while the spirit is not. The upright man appears upright in spirit just as he appears outwardly but there comes a "flip" in the spirit which is then, upside down. The spirit is what is in the "heart" which is the spiritual mind of man, and they both must be in harmony as both upright together.

The spirit is what produces utterance from the mouth, and it is written that all mouths that speak blasphemies will be stopped. The mouths that speak against the Lord don't know that they do, rather they see all things as Holy even while flipped upside down, and it's because the entire world alike is flipped so that any single man may not detect anything wrong or out of the ordinary. The upside down mind is of a gentile nature, and cannot keep the Law in the same order as it was originally written in the man but he keeps the Law in reverse "order" as he is witnessed by also a reversal in the two witnesses, which then are not authentic in contrast nor proportional measure.

There is Law and "Order" to consider besides looking only at the Law. It's the ORDER that is reversed, and this affects the mind by the spirit within. There are many prophecies that describe the reversal as in the "ten horns", which is a depiction of the flipped spirit, as the head is then on the earth and the feet in heaven, in this imagery. The prophets did not spell it out as I am doing, rather they spoke in parables that describe the flip. Notice the words used by the prophets and see what they are describing while keeping this imagery in mind.

The man thinks with his feet instead of his mind in a flipped order, in fact all of the ten commandments are reversed when flipped upside down. Liars who draw others to them also cause others to flip but there has come a strong delusion that G-d sent down to the inhabitants of earth that flipped the entire world of minds, and they all think alike, and this caused another order to come by men's works and laws.

This is a large picture to see, and you'll have to look at the big picture so to see this in play, even today it's our current status, spiritually. This is why we are told to live by faith until we are enlightened. If this is not understood then, hopefully in short time you will, I pray.

Here are three references to read and look for the similar imagery in all. They describe the upside down phenomenon and other details. This is not easy to see, and does require deep thought, and as Paul says, "think" on these things.


All of what is written is concerning the mind and knowledge of G-d because G-d's people are destroyed for the lack of it, and He wants all men to come to know this and repent of their ignorance. Satan has educated the world with his knowledge when the "desolation's were seated". Satan changed the minds of men after G-d sent down the strong delusion.

It would be a long post if I were to interpret all three references verse at a time so I have summarized it in this post.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and consider it.


Isaiah 24
King James Version (KJV)
24 Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.

3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.

4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

7 The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.

8 The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.

9 They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.

10 The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.

11 There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.

12 In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.

13 When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done.

14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the Lord, they shall cry aloud from the sea.

15 Wherefore glorify ye the Lord in the fires, even the name of the Lord God of Israel in the isles of the sea.

16 From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.

17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.

19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.


Isaiah 29
King James Version (KJV)
29 Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.

2 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.

3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.

4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.

6 Thou shalt be visited of the Lord of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.

7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.

8 It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.

9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.

10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

17 Is it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?

18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the Lord, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:

21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

22 Therefore thus saith the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.

23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.

24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.


Continued next post.

 

[SG9]

Acts 17
King James Version (KJV)
17 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;

7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.

8 And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard these things.

9 And when they had taken security of Jason, and of the other, they let them go.

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.

14 And then immediately the brethren sent away Paul to go as it were to the sea: but Silas and Timotheus abode there still.

15 And they that conducted Paul brought him unto Athens: and receiving a commandment unto Silas and Timotheus for to come to him with all speed, they departed.

16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.

17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?

20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.

21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)

22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

33 So Paul departed from among them.

34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by bugkiller

I did not use the large blue letters in my title because I think they all appear in black and same text size.

It seems to me there is some dispute what the law is. Does "the" word have a specific or limiting meaning to a word following it? Is the law the all inclusive law of God? In this case are the grammer rules of English and Greek different? I wish to have demonstrated through text what the truth is.

bugkiller
​

​

Originally Posted by SG9

Hi,
​

In simple term, the Law is in question as to which law? One may question the Law of Yahweh while looking from a gentile mind, which is reversed law, and it forms the character of the individual........snip..............

​

I see Lambster must be bored again or is lonely for bugkiller. Both are possibilities.

The first thing I see is you're talking about a part of the law. I just don't see that in the OP.

What is reverse law?

What changed with the gentile age of man? There were no Jews or Israel for how long? So everyone was a gentile.

Now who is trying to do away with God's law (whatever you're saying it is)? You must be talking about something else besides the law as bugkiller says. You are saying something about the law of God. Is this is different from the law bugkiller talks about.

Along with Bugkiller, and I also miss "Frogster".

And thanks for the honorable mention of my name. I am flattered.

I call you 3 the most authorative Bible Scripture experts on the law here on CF!


One of my all time favorite threads by Frogster is here:


http://www.christianforums.com/t7578720-59/#post58074068
The law is for dead people. lol...




.

 

[SG9]

Zechariah 14:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

This is another profound prophecy that is a parallel to the human mind/spirit. This is addressing the spiritual anatomy of mankind in general, and to make this known, it is gender sensitive as in the two parts, North and South.

In parallel, the North may also be equated as the East, and the South with the West when ever the Law in the Cross is reformed.

Zechariah's vision is as looking at a button-up dress shirt with both sides mismatched, just like buttoning your shirt wrong where one side is higher than the other. This image of the shirt is also a parallel to the Curtain in the Most High, or Upper Room, and it's in the mind.

Imagine this image all within the head of the body, which is seen like a curtain on a Travis rod, and it's supposed to be straight across so that the curtain opens and closes equally. The two sides of the shirt or curtain are as the two halves of the brain, and is also parallel to the male on the East side while the female on the West side.

When the Curtain tears it rips the mind apart in conscience as it parts another parallel to the Two Witnesses as the two identities, male vs female, North vs South, and East vs West. This has even a parallel image in the Cross as the horizontal beam where the East-male is on the "Right" side of the vertical post, while the female-West is on the other side. The East side of the beam or curtain or shirt are lower than the left-West side because of a heaviness in the Yoke that caused heaviness on the male, which causes that side to drop lower on the teeter-totter (horizontal beam).

The strong delusion is as brain salad surgery when the Mind is parted like the Red Sea, which is another profound parallel, besides even more that I won't mention so not to add more confusion. Zechariah is describing when this unbalance is corrected but the mind must be separated again as to rip the poorly mended curtain, or the wrongfully buttoned shirt, or the horizontal beam of the Cross.

The two sides of the mental/spiritual curtain was mended in the offset position and it was done by men when they were desolate of the Truth after the strong delusion blanketed the world. This is when the occult religions began to flourish after the 1844 failed prophecy. The failed prophecy caused a great number of curtains to rip, which were once equal in the Law of G-d written in them. After the tearing of their minds they had to find peace in other ways and then came 4 years after 1844 came the Liberation movement which not only affected women but men, also.

The world has all been made this way, unbalanced by G-d when He sent down the strong delusion, and so that when the day does come to restore His lost ones, they will know the truth about their condition and the others who are perishing will not understand this.

So, Zech is saying that there will come a knowledge that corrects the wrong, making the Holy, Holy, once again, and the profaned remain profaned, still. You smart ones should know the reference scripture to that one without me posting it. After the correction in mind/spirit then, all things will be as they land, and nothing will ever move them again. The Holy are saved while the wicked minds are destroyed, and will perish under their own works.

John describes this demise of men's works in Revelation, as the man of sin is revealed. This unbalanced gentile mindset will be either resurrected as in the East side of the beam moving North-upward, while the West side moves South to cause the Beam of the Cross within the mind to be as balanced in Law, and in the correct Order of Upright, where the Head is at the top, and the feet are at the bottom, and in the Prophecy it is described, the mind as the mount of olives, and the Olives being the mind of mankind.

The world is in denial of genders, as it is the current mindset as gentile, and this is the cause of mixed sexes, today. All of the world has a bisexual spirit when a gentile mindset is their spirit, and while under the strong delusion. The minds are where the spirit is seated on a throne, and this depicts the gentile mind as having a false Christ seated on their throne.

G-d removed Himself from the Earth when the strong delusion came, and our mixed up world today is evidence that this is our current condition. We can have heaven here on earth but only after the mind is corrected in Law and Order. And please know that I am no respecter of persons because of what they are, because we are all in the same flood waters together while we await our rescue ship.

As Job has said, and I believe we will experience the same thing, he stated to his friends: "I am escaped only, and alone to tell thee."

I can expound this further if required, and only to sincere people.
G-d bless you all, and Thanks

 

[Emmy]

Dear bugkiller. Yes, what exactly is the law? So many to choose from, no wonder Jesus told us in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself."
Then Jesus gives us these two Commandments and we are told: " On these two Commandments hang ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS."
Straightforward and easy to remember. God is Love, and God wants loving children/sons and daughters to live with eternally.
We are told in Matthew 7: 7-10: " ask and ye shall receive," then thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour. ( all people around us)
God will see our sincere efforts, and God will approve and Bless us.
The Bible tells us to " Repent," and to " Be Born Again." God wants our Love instead of our selfishness. Love will gradually but surly, change us into the loving men and women which God wants us to become.
I say this with love, bugkiller. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[SG9]

Yes, the Law hangs on these two great Commanders who gave the Two Great commandments.

In the first commandments of the Law we see that Jesus is describing the Father as the first Love, and those things noted are spiritual as we would worship G-d in Spirit and in Truth, just the same as the "Image" of G-d, which is Spiritual and of the Father. It says nothing about loving our neighbor until we get to the second commandment, which is addressing the "Likeness" in Christ who came in flesh therefore, we are to also love they neighbor in the flesh as if he/she were in the Image and Likeness of the Father and the Son.

And all of the following 8 commandments are what were established by the Christ and endorsed by all of the Prophets and by the Law of G-d. These two laws of love do not replace nor excuse any other commandment. If we do we then put asunder the Father from the Son, as in separating the child at birth from His Father, and He be a Fatherless child.


Matthew 22:35-40
King James Version (KJV)
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God (Father) with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (these things are spiritual)

38 This is the first and great commandment. (Father)

39 And the second (Son) is like unto it (Father), (If we have seen the Son we have also seen the Father) Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (This is of the likeness and flesh, as in your human flesh neighbor, and if we love Jesus we also love our neighbor.) Jesus is the Truth, as in Spirit and Truth, and the Father be the Spirit as in Spirit and in Truth; they are inseparable.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Like Father, like Son.