What exactly is the law?

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I did not use the large blue letters in my title because I think they all appear in black and same text size.

It seems to me there is some dispute what the law is. Does "the" word have a specific or limiting meaning to a word following it? Is the law the all inclusive law of God? In this case are the grammer rules of English and Greek different? I wish to have demonstrated through text what the truth is.

bugkiller

Like "the air", "the water, & "the land",... it needs context to specify, seing as how there is air in water & water in the air, etc.
So we have "the law" in it's broadest possible meaning, & we have "the law" in norrowly specified meaning.

Not giving it enough context is what usualy turns discussions about it into a hot mess.
 
Upvote 0
F

from scratch

Guest
Like "the air", "the water, & "the land",... it needs context to specify, seing as how there is air in water & water in the air, etc.
So we have "the law" in it's broadest possible meaning, & we have "the law" in norrowly specified meaning.

Not giving it enough context is what usualy turns discussions about it into a hot mess.
I've yet to see any post here that covers every loop hole on anything. Usually even a series of post don't seem to be capable of that.
 
Upvote 0
F

from scratch

Guest
You asked many questions, which will confuse you by answer so I'll address my main point again, and expound on what the "reversal" in law is concerning. It's actually a spiritual flip of the spirit within the body/flesh while the flesh still stands on it's natural feet. This is imagery spoken in contextual language by the prophets interpreted for your edification so please, put your pride aside and read what I write, and especially the scripture references; nothing personal. :)

The general idea is to imagine a spiritual clone of yourself as a man within a man, like a wheel within a wheel, so to speak. The flesh is seen while the spirit is not. The upright man appears upright in spirit just as he appears outwardly but there comes a "flip" in the spirit which is then, upside down. The spirit is what is in the "heart" which is the spiritual mind of man, and they both must be in harmony as both upright together.

The spirit is what produces utterance from the mouth, and it is written that all mouths that speak blasphemies will be stopped. The mouths that speak against the Lord don't know that they do, rather they see all things as Holy even while flipped upside down, and it's because the entire world alike is flipped so that any single man may not detect anything wrong or out of the ordinary. The upside down mind is of a gentile nature, and cannot keep the Law in the same order as it was originally written in the man but he keeps the Law in reverse "order" as he is witnessed by also a reversal in the two witnesses, which then are not authentic in contrast nor proportional measure.

There is Law and "Order" to consider besides looking only at the Law. It's the ORDER that is reversed, and this affects the mind by the spirit within. There are many prophecies that describe the reversal as in the "ten horns", which is a depiction of the flipped spirit, as the head is then on the earth and the feet in heaven, in this imagery. The prophets did not spell it out as I am doing, rather they spoke in parables that describe the flip. Notice the words used by the prophets and see what they are describing while keeping this imagery in mind.

The man thinks with his feet instead of his mind in a flipped order, in fact all of the ten commandments are reversed when flipped upside down. Liars who draw others to them also cause others to flip but there has come a strong delusion that G-d sent down to the inhabitants of earth that flipped the entire world of minds, and they all think alike, and this caused another order to come by men's works and laws.

This is a large picture to see, and you'll have to look at the big picture so to see this in play, even today it's our current status, spiritually. This is why we are told to live by faith until we are enlightened. If this is not understood then, hopefully in short time you will, I pray.

Here are three references to read and look for the similar imagery in all. They describe the upside down phenomenon and other details. This is not easy to see, and does require deep thought, and as Paul says, "think" on these things.


All of what is written is concerning the mind and knowledge of G-d because G-d's people are destroyed for the lack of it, and He wants all men to come to know this and repent of their ignorance. Satan has educated the world with his knowledge when the "desolation's were seated". Satan changed the minds of men after G-d sent down the strong delusion.

It would be a long post if I were to interpret all three references verse at a time so I have summarized it in this post.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and consider it.


Isaiah 24
King James Version (KJV)
24 Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.

3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.

4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

7 The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.

8 The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.

9 They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.

10 The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.

11 There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.

12 In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.

13 When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done.

14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the Lord, they shall cry aloud from the sea.

15 Wherefore glorify ye the Lord in the fires, even the name of the Lord God of Israel in the isles of the sea.

16 From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.

17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.

19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.


Isaiah 29
King James Version (KJV)
29 Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.

2 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.

3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.

4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.

6 Thou shalt be visited of the Lord of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.

7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.

8 It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.

9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.

10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

17 Is it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?

18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the Lord, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:

21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

22 Therefore thus saith the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.

23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.

24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.


Continued next post.
I'm so sorry but your post is too long. I read it. But I don't follow it very well at all.

Here's my idea -

The unregenerate person is controlled by the desires of the body and can't help themselves. They're dead inside. Jesus said they must be born again. Your spirit (soul) was born dead. As a Christian a person is no longer controlled by the body. Surely you've heard it the little head that does the thinking. This isn't true for me. Yep people wonder what's wrong with me and say so once in a while when they get frustrated. Others come to respect with awe. I'm turned on and off by the person from the inside (the heart). Life isn't the animation of the body.
 
Upvote 0
F

from scratch

Guest

Along with Bugkiller, and I also miss "Frogster". :sorry:

And thanks for the honorable mention of my name. I am flattered.

I call you 3 the most authorative Bible Scripture experts on the law here on CF! :thumbsup:


One of my all time favorite threads by Frogster is here:


http://www.christianforums.com/t7578720-59/#post58074068
The law is for dead people. lol...
Thanks. The preaching of the law and its misuse has severely damaged my life and well being. God spoke to me directly and said it wasn't my covenant. It still took more than 10 additional years to mostly shake and be free in God's awesome grace. I simply don't find that at religious meetings.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,633
10,768
Georgia
✟929,833.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I did not use the large blue letters in my title because I think they all appear in black and same text size.

It seems to me there is some dispute what the law is. Does "the" word have a specific or limiting meaning to a word following it? Is the law the all inclusive law of God? r

One side of the argument would admit to the Bible fact that God's TEN Commandments are included in "The Law of God " that is written on the heart and are called the "Commandments of God" or "The Commandment" - or "The LAw" in the NT.

And so they are included in the LAW of GOD - that is "written on the mind and heart" under the Jer 31:31-33 New Covenant quoted in Hebrews 8.

Many Bible students have also notice that Jesus said in the NT - the Ten Commandments are the "WORD of God" in places like Mark 7:6-13.

==================================

Paul makes that same case in Eph 6:1-4 when he quotes Moses verbatim (actually he is quoting God in
Exodus 20:12) and applies this as NT law for the saint. Paul never argues that the scriptures are dead to NT saint and only what Paul writes should be listened to - and this is evidenced by the points below --

Here is a place to make your case then --


[FONT=&quot]
1. Paul never commands gentiles to "Love God WITH ALL your heart".
2. Paul never commands gentiles "not to take God's name in vain"
3. Paul never commands gentiles to ignore the writings of Moses.
4. Paul DOES tell gentiles that Moses' writings are still authoritative scripture in 1Cor 9:8-9 and 1Tim 5:18 and binding as being "Law" and as being "scripture".
5. Paul quotes Moses TEN Commandments Eph 6:2. Full 5th commandment
6. Paul DOES teach that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
7. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
8. Paul does tell gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
9. Paul DOES ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
10. Paul DOES tell gentiles that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAw of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
11. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9
12. Paul DOES tell gentiles that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16

[/FONT]




A number of other sources also affirm the fact that the TEN Commandments apply to the saints today and have applied since Eden - .


The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson


Here is how one of those sunday keeping sources present full support of the TEN Commandments.
==========================================

[FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT]
Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith .

Section 19
. The Law of God

  • God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

  • The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

  • Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

  • To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

  • The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

  • Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

  • The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.
=================== end quote



And of course non-Sunday keeping sources would make a similar argument about the TEN Commandments still applying to the saints today. - those groups would include the Seventh-day Baptists, and the Seventh-day Adventists.

in Christ,

Bob
 
Upvote 0
F

from scratch

Guest
Upvote 0

MJohn7

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2013
1,989
63
✟2,647.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ephesians 4:11-16

New International Version (NIV)



11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
 
Upvote 0

MJohn7

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2013
1,989
63
✟2,647.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Now i ask you all, are the commands of Christ and his apostles a bunch of lies or are they truth? If they are truth then we speak truth in love. We dont throw out the truth in love, we speak it in love.


Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

MJohn7

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2013
1,989
63
✟2,647.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What is the seed that gets sown in our hearts? Who is the sower?



Mt 13:23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”


31 He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. 32 Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”




1 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
 
Upvote 0
F

from scratch

Guest
One side of the argument would admit to the Bible fact that God's TEN Commandments are included in "The Law of God " that is written on the heart and are called the "Commandments of God" or "The Commandment" - or "The LAw" in the NT.

And so they are included in the LAW of GOD - that is "written on the mind and heart" under the Jer 31:31-33 New Covenant quoted in Hebrews 8.

Many Bible students have also notice that Jesus said in the NT - the Ten Commandments are the "WORD of God" in places like Mark 7:6-13.
Why won't you accept the words of God's prophet - Not according to...?

I deleted the rest of your spam.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,589
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
Along with Bugkiller, and I also miss "Frogster". :sorry:

Good ol' days. Bout fell outta my chair reviewing being told I needed potty training.
:)

That is one of the best "Law" threads on GT :thumbsup:


.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,633
10,768
Georgia
✟929,833.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Why won't you accept the words of God's prophet - .

Some people will accept the reference to the Apostle Paul as just such a prophet of God.


Many Bible students have also notice that Jesus said in the NT - the Ten Commandments are the "WORD of God" in places like Mark 7:6-13.

==================================

Paul makes that same case in Eph 6:1-4 when he quotes Moses verbatim (actually he is quoting God in
Exodus 20:12) and applies this as NT law for the saint. Paul never argues that the scriptures are dead to NT saint and only what Paul writes should be listened to - and this is evidenced by the points below --

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Here is a place to make your case then --


[FONT=&quot]
1. Paul never commands gentiles to "Love God WITH ALL your heart".
2. Paul never commands gentiles "not to take God's name in vain"
3. Paul never commands gentiles to ignore the writings of Moses.
4. Paul DOES tell gentiles that Moses' writings are still authoritative scripture in 1Cor 9:8-9 and 1Tim 5:18 and binding as being "Law" and as being "scripture".
5. Paul quotes Moses TEN Commandments Eph 6:2. Full 5th commandment
6. Paul DOES teach that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
7. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
8. Paul does tell gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
9. Paul DOES ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
10. Paul DOES tell gentiles that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAw of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
11. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9
12. Paul DOES tell gentiles that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16

[/FONT]

A number of other sources also affirm the fact that the TEN Commandments apply to the saints today and have applied since Eden - .


The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson
 
Upvote 0
F

from scratch

Guest
Some people will accept the reference to the Apostle Paul as just such a prophet of God.


Many Bible students have also notice that Jesus said in the NT - the Ten Commandments are the "WORD of God" in places like Mark 7:6-13.
So are you trying to get me to say I lay aside the Word of God? Yes I see your trap. My full answer is I believe every word of the Bible. The problem is you refuse Moses, the Psalms, the Prophets, the Gospels and don't forget Paul. This has been shown over and over. How many of them do I need to list again and again?
==================================

Paul makes that same case in Eph 6:1-4 when he quotes Moses verbatim (actually he is quoting God in
Exodus 20:12) and applies this as NT law for the saint. Paul never argues that the scriptures are dead to NT saint and only what Paul writes should be listened to - and this is evidenced by the points below --
Yeah we know you're trying to require the keeping of the law for the purpose of salvation. This is forbidden in this forum per Edial. If you need the post its located in latest GT report free thread by him.
Originally Posted by BobRyan
Here is a place to make your case then --


[FONT=&quot]
1. Paul never commands gentiles to "Love God WITH ALL your heart".
True. Your point is....
2. Paul never commands gentiles "not to take God's name in vain"
True again. Your point is....
3. Paul never commands gentiles to ignore the writings of Moses.
Is your point the Christian is obligated to them? If so why?
4. Paul DOES tell gentiles that Moses' writings are still authoritative scripture in 1Cor 9:8-9 and 1Tim 5:18 and binding as being "Law" and as being "scripture".
Yes and Paul calls the contents of those writings the ministration of death. 2 Cor 3:7 I believe.
5. Paul quotes Moses TEN Commandments Eph 6:2. Full 5th commandment
True. Your point is.....
6. Paul DOES teach that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
Paul isn't saying the 7th day Sabbath is a requirement of the Christian. The word Paul uses is sabbatismos (σαββατισμός). Paul doesn't use the word sabbaton (σάββατον) referring to a day.
7. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
True and taken out of context to support a false doctrine.
8. Paul does tell gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
The problem here is Paul also says there aren't any in agreement with the Psalms you also throw out. Jesus even showed the same with the rich young ruler even by saying keep the law Mat 19 and 2 other gospels.
9. Paul DOES ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
This is a far cry from requiring its observance. The implication you make here is keeping the law ir required for salvation. Once again this is forbidden in this forum per Edial.
10. Paul DOES tell gentiles that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAw of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
Well I've been told not to laugh. :sorry:
11. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9
:confused:You must have the wrong reference for your commentary.
12. Paul DOES tell gentiles that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
What does Paul say here? Does he say all Scripture? Did Peter say Paul's writings were on the level of Scripture and to be regarded as the same - 2 Pet 3:16 Yes I understand your POV.
A number of other sources also affirm the fact that the TEN Commandments apply to the saints today and have applied since Eden - .
So what? Who cares about statements from them about the Bible.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums