Thoughts on Dave Hunt? 3 questions please

[psalm232]

I'm reading Dave Hunts "Occult Invasion." He is an excellent writer and researcher.

He claims in the book that the practice of having Quiet Time- with a journal and pen, is unbiblical and can open you up to familiar spirits. GASP! Question #1 : Is there any truth in this warning?

I know in my time in a cultic group....I did see the damage of "false revival"/Toronto type false holy spirit annointings....but the whole thing of "listening" for a word....often /daily....could this be one practice that has set up many of us for deception or demonic influence?

Or is Dave simply a cessationist?

He's definiately a dear brother and the book is awesome....I'm just wondering...Question #2 [/B]are there any caveats here or something he is personally missing?


And Question #3....is Derek Prince solid? I have many of his books...considered him a respectable teacher.

Thanks for reading and any input you might give.

 

[Faulty]

I consider Dave accurate in that regard. God never made any promise to speak to us in that way, nor did He ever tell us to use such a process. So when one does so while expecting a response from the "other side", they might just get it, just not in the way they hope.

 

[jiminpa]

I consider Dave accurate in that regard. God never made any promise to speak to us in that way, nor did He ever tell us to use such a process. So when one does so while expecting a response from the "other side", they might just get it, just not in the way they hope.

Didn't God Himself promise not to give us a serpent when we ask for a fish? I'm far more inclined to believe that we may just hear nothing at all, and then maybe listen to our own voice, than I am that God would neglect His own promise of protection. A lot of really demonic doctrine starts with the words, "the Bible doesn't tell us to do that."

 

[Faulty]

Didn't God Himself promise not to give us a serpent when we ask for a fish? I'm far more inclined to believe that we may just hear nothing at all, and then maybe listen to our own voice, than I am that God would neglect His own promise of protection. A lot of really demonic doctrine starts with the words, "the Bible doesn't tell us to do that."

Doesnt that example end with a very specific promise and outcome? Yes, it does. I'm not sure where you feel comfortable applying it to anything and everything, when Jesus did not.

If every way into the spirit realm was profitable, there would have been no need to burn 50, 000 silver worth of occultic books in Acts 19 when the church was beginning in Ephesus. By this line of reasoning, all they would of had to do instead is be "sincere" in pointing their craft towards God, but that's a lie.

 

[psalm232]

I experienced some very dramatic supernatural signs and now am discerning and testing them all.

Some appeared to have good fruit. But others were clearly evil.

The most hurtful, shocking one happened to an online friend. I only knew him through the group and another christian forum. He attempted to teach cult doctrine...I considered it evangelism.

One of the teachings was related to the manifested sons of god doctrines. As such- your flesh is sinful- but the spirit of Christ within you is God. Here's where the deception comes in....when you are "hearing" or being led by a spiritual source....we are to TEST that spirit with the Word of God. What happened is that people would be led by a false holy spirit that was actually a demon.

Hence the very real doctrines of demons.

My friend was considered an elder and a teacher in the group. He posted a testimony online called "Death abolished" how 'by faith" he overcame being poisoned.

He began to share this testimony...and the doctrine that went along with it on a message board.

Several people tried to warn him of error in his teaching and conclusions...he did not receive or heed these warnings. Within a matter of days - the man disappeared.

He was discovered murdered about a week later in South Africa. I have an email he sent me...that must have occurred very close to the time of his murder.

His body was only identified by dental records- as his body was burned. (after death I believe and hope)


I deeply grieved this for a long time....and even now I wonder- was he saved? Was this a judgment from God or was this the end game of the demonic deception and false holy spirit leading and teaching him and the group.

His was not the only untimely death.

I know of about 6 others. All people who taught faith healing, authority over demons, "Jesus bore the entire curse for us"- and we should overcome all suffering in this life....

Several people had long pregnancies.These were considered supernatural signs of the upcoming "birth of the manchild..." My friend had one....her pregnancy went WAY WAY past due....past 18 months....baby of course born dead at that point.

Some of the signs and "miracles" I witnessed and personally experience I know question. Because they confirmed and pointed to a false gospel.

Another weird thing....of the group's "elders." (Who were given a lot of spiritual authority )- One was killed and body burned (my friend), another had a stroke, another almost died, another did die...in the presence of the leader. (medical help not called- the man died needlessly and in pain)....

I really need to write a book about this dangerous place. I am so thankful God had mercy to open my eyes, get me out, protect my family and kids from serious harm.


So....those signs were clearly LYING SIGNS AND WONDERS. Are they all? ??? I feel like I have discerning of spirits? Is it really meant to operate today?

 

[Faulty]

The gifts are still in operation, but they are also counterfeited, as you are learning.

It's important to know your Bible very well because if the signs are accompanied by lies, then you know clearly and early their source is evil. Knowledge of accurate doctrine is vital as well as constant prayer and leaning on the Lord for strength.

You're in the middle of a war. Don't let the enemy beat you by convincing you to throw this truth away. It seems evident to me you are being attacked in this area.

 

[psalm232]

OK- that makes sense....oh my goodness...so many attacks over the last few months...if I were to list them....!

Yes, I do believe I am being attacked. Many of the problems in my family have had a spiritual component...and after repentance, prayer, and in some cases rebuking the enemy...things/problems/oppression has immediately lifted almost as a flood...The difference has been tangible.

 

[Biblicist]

Didn't God Himself promise not to give us a serpent when we ask for a fish? I'm far more inclined to believe that we may just hear nothing at all, and then maybe listen to our own voice, than I am that God would neglect His own promise of protection. A lot of really demonic doctrine starts with the words, "the Bible doesn't tell us to do that."

Well said!

 

[psalm232]

Well said!

link to falseteachersexposed.blogspot.ca/2007/01/rodney-howard-brownedothtml

According to Holy Laughter by Albert James Dager[/URL], Rodney Howard Browne prayed the following prayer before receiving the demonic anointing that has destroyed so many lives, churches, ministries, marriages worldwide:

"'Either You come down here and touch me, or I will come up there and touch You"
(The prayer Howard-Browne prayed before he got the supposed "anointing")
(Holy Laughter, Albert James Dager, 1996)

 

[Simon_Templar]

So if you have a quiet time without a journal and a pen... is that ok?

is it just the presence of writing utensils that makes your quiet time evil? or is all quiet time just bad in general

I poke fun a bit.

Dave Hunt is THE conspiracy theorist of the fundamentalist community... and that's saying something because the fundamentalist community is full of conspiracy theorists.

Dave Hunt basically thinks that everyone except Dave Hunt and his associates and followers are new age and occult.

(that being said, I would tend to agree that Rodney Howard Browne is crazy)

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I Never heard of him, but what YOU say he says pretty much erases any interest I'd have in reading his stuff.

"is Derek Prince solid?"

I listened to his ministry extensively back in the '70s and '80s, and consider him as about as solid as Human Ministry gets.

 

[lismore]

Dave Hunt has recently gone to be with the Lord.

I have some of his books. He is a good evangelist and speaks a lot of truth.

But I think sometimes he goes too far to make his point.

 

[dayhiker]

I've not read this book by Dave Hunt. I have read a couple of his books, particularly the one about Calvinism that I got a lot out of. Clearly when he writes he has an agenda and that usually means a person who only sees one side of the issue.

I don't see anything wrong with a quiet time and/or writing a journal. the Bible doesn't say that type of thing is wrong. I do think if we expect God to speak to us every day a personal word that that can open a door for other spirits to speak IF the desire to hear a word is more important that waiting to hear God and being content if God doesn't speak today.
Its interesting that as we read the OT there are often years that go by in Abraham's life when apparently God didn't speak to him. Then there are decades that go by when Israel doesn't have a prophet speaking to them. To read the OT as if God is speaking to the godly men every day and to Israel every day is to miss the years that God doesn't speak to them.

So sounds like to me that Dave Hunt went too far if I understand form the OP what he write.

 

[psalm232]

I've not read this book by Dave Hunt. I have read a couple of his books, particularly the one about Calvinism that I got a lot out of. Clearly when he writes he has an agenda and that usually means a person who only sees one side of the issue.

I don't see anything wrong with a quiet time and/or writing a journal. the Bible doesn't say that type of thing is wrong. I do think if we expect God to speak to us every day a personal word that that can open a door for other spirits to speak IF the desire to hear a word is more important that waiting to hear God and being content if God doesn't speak today.
Its interesting that as we read the OT there are often years that go by in Abraham's life when apparently God didn't speak to him. Then there are decades that go by when Israel doesn't have a prophet speaking to them. To read the OT as if God is speaking to the godly men every day and to Israel every day is to miss the years that God doesn't speak to them.



So sounds like to me that Dave Hunt went too far if I understand form the OP what he write.

Thanks for that perspective...I believe God does want us to have personal time with Him in fellowship, in worship, etc...

Apologize if I portrayed DH in a negative way. There is a lot of good stuff in his books especially in discerning and recognizing certain aspects of Roman Catholicism. I think I'm beginning to recognize that their is a Body of Christ...He is the head and we have different gifts/roles.

DH was a diligent researcher and loved truth ...def not a "false teacher" so there is good stuff to glean IMO.

Thanks for the counsel- quoted above.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

He claims in the book that the practice of having Quiet Time- with a journal and pen, is unbiblical and can open you up to familiar spirits. GASP! Question #1 : Is there any truth in this warning?

I know in my time in a cultic group....I did see the damage of "false revival"/Toronto type false holy spirit annointings....but the whole thing of "listening" for a word....often /daily....could this be one practice that has set up many of us for deception or demonic influence?

While I'm not exactly a fan of Dave Hunt's writing, he may be onto something here, although I'm not sure whether he might be a little to the extreme.

At the very least, this seems like a strange practice. I'm not sure where it comes from, and there's no particular reason to believe that it actually works. More likely than not, the vast, overwhelming majority of words written down in that manner (if not probably all of them) are just things that pop into the person's mind unconsciously during a time of thought and concentration. Human psychology being what it is, and Occam's razor being applied, it's a lot easier to assume that it's that than to believe that it's supernatural.

At the worst, I can easily see this as potentially opening up the person to supernatural influences that aren't holy in their origin. I'm going to add a lot of caveats to that statement, because I don't want people to start seeing demonic activity where it isn't. People are naturally inclined to see order or meaning behind things where no order or meaning actually exists, and so it's obviously important to avoid doing that. Still, given that you and I both believe that demons exist, it's logical to say that there is a remote, unlikely chance that someone could communicate with one while seeking supernatural communication.

 

[jiminpa]

I'm reading Dave Hunts "Occult Invasion." He is an excellent writer and researcher.

He claims in the book that the practice of having Quiet Time- with a journal and pen, is unbiblical and can open you up to familiar spirits. GASP! Question #1 : Is there any truth in this warning?

I know in my time in a cultic group....I did see the damage of "false revival"/Toronto type false holy spirit annointings....but the whole thing of "listening" for a word....often /daily....could this be one practice that has set up many of us for deception or demonic influence?

Or is Dave simply a cessationist?

He's definiately a dear brother and the book is awesome....I'm just wondering...Question #2 [/B]are there any caveats here or something he is personally missing?


And Question #3....is Derek Prince solid? I have many of his books...considered him a respectable teacher.

Thanks for reading and any input you might give.

You know I'm trying to imagine the scriptures being written without quiet time with God and a pen and paper. I'm coming up blank.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

You know I'm trying to imagine the scriptures being written without quiet time with God and a pen and paper. I'm coming up blank.

I think, from one of the descriptions here, that he's referring to a specific practice where a person sits at a desk quietly and writes down words that pop into his or her head with the belief that those words may be a communication from God. That sounds like a superstitious attempt to get some sort of special message from God, almost like bibliomancy (opening a Bible up to a random page and applying the first verse you come to to your present situation).

Otherwise, the idea that simply sitting alone in a room while writing is somehow "unbiblical" is just bizarre.

 

[jiminpa]

I think, from one of the descriptions here, that he's referring to a specific practice where a person sits at a desk quietly and writes down words that pop into his or her head with the belief that those words may be a communication from God. That sounds like a superstitious attempt to get some sort of special message from God, almost like bibliomancy (opening a Bible up to a random page and applying the first verse you come to to your present situation).
Otherwise, the idea that simply sitting alone in a room while writing is somehow "unbiblical" is just bizarre.

So what is wrong with sitting down in one's prayer closet, asking God to speak, expecting the He will, and writing down what one hears? The worst that can happen, unless God lies, is for one to hear from his own mind and assume that is God. Every cessationist sermon ever written is no worse than that, except instead of trying to hear from God they read a Bible and write down what their own mind tells them, or more often what came out of someone else's own mind. I'll take my chances with God's promises.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

So what is wrong with sitting down in one's prayer closet, asking God to speak, expecting the He will, and writing down what one hears? The worst that can happen, unless God lies, is for one to hear from his own mind and assume that is God. Every cessationist sermon ever written is no worse than that, except instead of trying to hear from God they read a Bible and write down what their own mind tells them, or more often what came out of someone else's own mind. I'll take my chances with God's promises.

This isn't something that God promises to do, though. While He does state that we can ask for things and receive them, that doesn't mean that God will always give us a message if we ask.

The worst case scenario (again, a highly unlikely one) would be an accidental communication with the demonic. Beyond that, though, believing that the thoughts that come out of an individual's own mind are messages from God can lead to an enormous amount of confusion regarding religious matters. What if a person were doing this, as a charismatic evangelical struggling with his understanding of the Trinity, and the word "one" was the first thing to come to his mind? Some people would be led by that to become modalists and join a Oneness Pentecostal group.

Also, while I tend to be skeptical of most claims of personal supernatural experiences, I am not a cessationist (I know that you have not accused me of such, but I want to be clear on this point). While I've never had any active participation in the charismatic movement (other than attending a sermon at an Assemblies of God church with one of my friends during my junior year in college), I, along with many other Catholics, do accept that charisms referred to in the New Testament can sometimes be given to modern believers. Those have always been exceptional and extraordinary charisms, but they are still given when God so chooses.

 

[jiminpa]

This isn't something that God promises to do, though. While He does state that we can ask for things and receive them, that doesn't mean that God will always give us a message if we ask.

The worst case scenario (again, a highly unlikely one) would be an accidental communication with the demonic. Beyond that, though, believing that the thoughts that come out of an individual's own mind are messages from God can lead to an enormous amount of confusion regarding religious matters. What if a person were doing this, as a charismatic evangelical struggling with his understanding of the Trinity, and the word "one" was the first thing to come to his mind? Some people would be led by that to become modalists and join a Oneness Pentecostal group.

Also, while I tend to be skeptical of most claims of personal supernatural experiences, I am not a cessationist (I know that you have not accused me of such, but I want to be clear on this point). While I've never had any active participation in the charismatic movement (other than attending a sermon at an Assemblies of God church with one of my friends during my junior year in college), I, along with many other Catholics, do accept that charisms referred to in the New Testament can sometimes be given to modern believers. Those have always been exceptional and extraordinary charisms, but they are still given when God so chooses.

They are only exceptions because of unbelief. They should be the norm.

It was Jesus Himself who said that if we ask the Father for a good gift He will not give us a serpent, so your concern about communicating with a demon is not just unlikely it would make God a liar, assuming that it is a child of God who is asking.